Maybe I am viewing things on the progression and where it is leading as opposed to only the current moment as well. They might portray their concern with only the KEK/Pepe/White-pride portion of a gathering, but they are not excluding anyone on the other side from their actions. Associations, even by proximity are enough to meet their disdain to perform actions most here consider extreme and criminal. What they say and what they do are simply two different things.
Nice post,
rdwight. Right, the fighting is generalized now into us v them, both sides guilty of that. In the recent Battle, video shows helmeted guys in Captain America garb are openly attacking anyone in black. This is speculation, but I think antifa have gone from having a specific enemy to a much more general one, with the embracing of the alt-right into the Republican supporters. The days of skinheads being violent lowlifes are past; they are a welcome part of conservative ideology now. Antifa would be wise to reconsider their tactics, as they are placing themselves against the law-and-order population as opposed to a violent subset.
As you answered later in the thread, the last Milo event did not have any Nazi/Biker groups in numbers to point to as Antifa's reasoning for targetting the event, so I find it hard to take the position the speakers are not at all a target. Their purpose is to shut down the event, while also focusing on those groups you mention. The two are not diametrically opposed.
Way back I cited an article about the Milo protest, which reported that the black bloc-employing group had assimilated into and emerged from an otherwise peaceful crowd. I get the impression that this was a more surgical strike than the other two events, and possibly with more hell-raising intent than political 'expression'. Antifa after all do not have a perfectly consistent membership and ideology, though they may dress alike (the OC County protesters were likely a very different group than Milo's). While as you say, the objectives are not opposing, Milo and Coulter are not significant people to anyone but the darker part of the audience, and there is no campaign against them personally that I have seen. I only see the gatherings themselves targeted, which suggests that the attendees are exponentially more significant than the speakers. Antifa does not seem to be bombing Coulter's publisher or spreading a smear campaign against her. She is not mentioned by them. The gathering is.
Glad we have moved from directly inciting violence to indirect enabling. Pretty soon we can land where I think we should, at completely without responsibility.
Aplogies if I was unclear re: incitement. I intentionally said 'bordering on', not directly doing so, but other terms are probably less inflammatory, so conceded.
Re: completely without responsibility, I don't think we will likely reach that common ground. UBerk asks her to reschedule for a time that they will be better able to provide adequate security for everyone. I see this as a reasonable and practical move to protect her speech rights balanced with public safety. Her refusal seems an open challenge, a 'bring-it' invitation if you will. That is not a peaceful, law-abiding position. That's egging on a fight.
Where did you come to the conclusion that Antifa's only goal is to confront Nazi's etc. at these events? I am truly asking as I haven't seen it presented that is their primary focus within the groups history, although I guess you could suggest it is their current rallying cry to gather support.
Not only- just a big one, and an old one. Some anarchist types want a communal society, some want to fight injustice, some just want to watch the world burn. But nazi-ism is something that almost everyone can agree to hate, no?
A large issue I see with the way they are evolving is in their attempt to paint the entire opposing side as equal to their worst actors. This is done on both sides generally, but I feel in this case they are not equal.
The protesters, from the first hand accounts I have read after these events, sympathize and support the actions of antifa. This is allowing their actions to increase in severity. They would not be able to do what they do without some level of support from the groups that should be the face of these protests. They are too small in number and would be easily dealt with when attempting to push the envelope beyond peaceful protest.
Truth. Some real cognitive dissonance to sympathize with the action when you support the cause. Anarchists would be wise to get together, step back and evaluate where their heading. But are they likely to work together? Nah. Too much like conventional organization. Paperwork and stuff. Not their thing.
While you can argue that the bad actors on the other side of the fence are enabling the worst of their group, they would not be given the opportunity to be incorporated within that movement without the aggression of antifa. Their numbers at the rally's have grown out of the actions of antifa and those that support the their end goal at these speeches, to stop the delivery of any opposing view they hold. The defense against one's values and person can make strange bedfellows. Don't give the reason to encourage it.
Again, truth. Supporting the ideals and reconciling the actions are a tall order, especially with groups of such varying philosophies as anarchists. Personally, the hatred for skinhead types (rose) colors my judgement of antifa. But I think that it is better to cut them some slack than to accept white supremacists as being socially acceptable. Bias, yes. Seeing Trump supporters rejecting the neos would probably turn my opinions on a dime. Their acceptance is a greater enemy.
I do defend it, and probably take it farther than most. But for the umpteenth time, Coulter can say or not say whatever she wants. No one cares. The issue is, as with Milo, who is likely to come to the party. Based on recent events, Antifa will be there to meet Nazis. If it was Coulter and the Berkeley Republican Club, there would be no problems. The peripheral attendees are the entire issue here, not Ann and her profound thoughts.
