UK General Election

theprestige said:
US businesses generally ignore "bank holidays" in favor of striking some balance between giving employees an expected number of recognized holidays and economy-stimulating (and profit-making) work days. Naturally quite a a few bank holidays are observed, but the general economy ticks on regardless of how many vanity days the government obliges itself to observe (and the banking industry for whatever reason sees fit to indulge). Does the British economy really depend so much on the government's power to declare "holidays"? How feudal.
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My company is US company and the public holidays are observed far more rigorously than they are in the UK, or my current location, where they can be taken as floater days outside of Christmas or New year. Floater days do not get extra compensation to the worker but they can take that day another time.
 
theprestige said:
Does the British economy really depend so much on the government's power to declare "holidays"?
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No. Businesses occasionally whinge that each public holiday "costs" the country X squillion gazillion pounds, but the reality is that they mostly displace business, rather than prevent it. A product not bought on a bank holiday because the retailer was closed will simply be bought on another day. Manufacturing in general does not stop, and workers will take the day off in lieu at another time. Many businesses will still continue to trade, and in fact some - particularly hospitality - will have genuine extra trade as a result.
 
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Information Analyst said:
No. Businesses occasionally whinge that each public holidays "costs" the country X squillion gazillion pounds, but the reality is that they mostly displace business, rather than prevent it. A product not bought on a bank holiday because the retailer was closed will simply be bought on another day. Manufacturing in general does not stop, and workers will take the day off in lieu at another time. Many businesses will still continue to trade, and in fact some - particularly hospitality - will have genuine extra trade as a result.
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Yes. Well said.
 
Seismosaurus said:
Did you mean to say the BBC's hyperbole then?
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Today is St George's Day, so the English workers will get that, but we Scots will have to put up with 30 November. They could make it the anniversary of Bannockburn, which was fought at Midsummer.
 
Information Analyst said:
No. Businesses occasionally whinge that each public holiday "costs" the country X squillion gazillion pounds, but the reality is that they mostly displace business, rather than prevent it. A product not bought on a bank holiday because the retailer was closed will simply be bought on another day. Manufacturing in general does not stop, and workers will take the day off in lieu at another time. Many businesses will still continue to trade, and in fact some - particularly hospitality - will have genuine extra trade as a result.
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Yeah, this. The holiday days add up to business costs somewhat, but the economy as a whole benefits. British and Americans haven't figured this out yet, but if the employees are allowed to live a little they're more productive in the time they do work, compensating the loss. Furthermore you can sell them a whole range of holiday-related products they otherwise wouldn't be interested in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_hour_worked

USA beats out the big European states by a small margin, but check out Japan for example.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
Yeah, this. The holiday days add up to business costs somewhat, but the economy as a whole benefits. British and Americans haven't figured this out yet, but if the employees are allowed to live a little they're more productive in the time they do work, compensating the loss. Furthermore you can sell them a whole range of holiday-related products they otherwise wouldn't be interested in.
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The thing is that many people in the UK are harking back to the Victorian "golden age" in the UK when the UK economy was going full chat, the UK was the leading imperial power in the world and Britannia really did rule the waves.

Until the Chartists started meddling and then people started demanding such things as a 60 hour working week, employers could work their employees 16 hours a day, 7 days a week for less than subsistence wages. I think some in the UK think that a return to these employment practices would see a return of British greatness :rolleyes:
 
lionking said:
Probably veering off-topic. Obviously a lot of people work on declared public holidays, but in Australia, and the UK I think, employers have to pay much higher rates, meaning some small businesses may not turn a profit on these days.
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Nope, depends what's in your contract. You have to have a minimum number of holidays plus the number of bank holidays.
 
The Don said:
The thing is that many people in the UK are harking back to the Victorian "golden age" in the UK when the UK economy was going full chat, the UK was the leading imperial power in the world and Britannia really did rule the waves.

Until the Chartists started meddling and then people started demanding such things as a 60 hour working week, employers could work their employees 16 hours a day, 7 days a week for less than subsistence wages. I think some in the UK think that a return to these employment practices would see a return of British greatness :rolleyes:
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Several generations fought to achieve the protections for workers and the environment from which we all now benefit, but this one seems to be set on giving them all away.

If you want to know what the country was really like the last time the buggers we're about to hand it over to were in charge, read some Dickens.
 
The Don said:
The thing is that many people in the UK are harking back to the Victorian "golden age" in the UK when the UK economy was going full chat, the UK was the leading imperial power in the world and Britannia really did rule the waves.

Until the Chartists started meddling and then people started demanding such things as a 60 hour working week, employers could work their employees 16 hours a day, 7 days a week for less than subsistence wages. I think some in the UK think that a return to these employment practices would see a return of British greatness :rolleyes:
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I don't doubt that one bit.

It's a stupid sentiment though.

McHrozni
 
Oh come on folks. How about a sense of reality here. A little perspective. No party is proposing the sorts of changes you are talking about, and if they did, they wouldn't get elected. Further, the negotiations for UK trade with the EU are almost certain to include a minimum standard on various aspects of employment law (as well as environmental and agricultural and laws, many of which we wrote, and we exceed). It's hyperbolic to start talking about a return to Dickensian working conditions. How about fighting this election on the basis of the manifestos, rather than on the basis of straw men of your own choosing.

ETA Don't forget it was leading Victorian industrialists who led the way in changing employment conditions. The Garden City movement, model village movement, all started by Cadbury at Bournville, were all begun by some of the major entrepreneurs of the day who build superb accommodation with the first public parks, swimming pools, and so on in a huge improvement on the employment conditions which had previously prevailed. Let's not slur the Victorians erroneously.
 
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MikeG said:
Oh come on folks. How about a sense of reality here. A little perspective. No party is proposing the sorts of changes you are talking about, and if they did, they wouldn't get elected. Further, the negotiations for UK trade with the EU are almost certain to include a minimum standard on various aspects of employment law (as well as environmental and agricultural and laws, many of which we wrote, and we exceed). It's hyperbolic to start talking about a return to Dickensian working conditions. How about fighting this election on the basis of the manifestos, rather than on the basis of straw men of your own choosing.
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Mike you are fighting against your strawman there. You seem to have missed the humour being used.
 
It does seem that for some reason British employers' representatives, whether political or trade bodies struggle to understand why the UK has a productivity "problem". As a class they seem to be very bemused, after all they have followed the old adage "The beatings will continue until morale improves" and still people won't put that "extra" effort in!
 
MikeG said:
Oh come on folks. How about a sense of reality here. A little perspective. No party is proposing the sorts of changes you are talking about, and if they did, they wouldn't get elected. Further, the negotiations for UK trade with the EU are almost certain to include a minimum standard on various aspects of employment law (as well as environmental and agricultural and laws, many of which we wrote, and we exceed). It's hyperbolic to start talking about a return to Dickensian working conditions. How about fighting this election on the basis of the manifestos, rather than on the basis of straw men of your own choosing.
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I'm not seriously suggesting there will be a return to Dickensian working conditions, but once we're out of the EU I foresee a gradual rolling back of a lot of protections in the name of "being competitive". The whole bogus "health and safety gone mad" narrative has been preparing otherwise sensible people into accepting such a roll back for decades.

I certainly hope that our need to continue to trade with the EU will mitigate it, but it's important to remember what life was like for ordinary people before "health and safety went mad". It's never a bad idea to read some Dickens.
 
MikeG said:
Oh come on folks. How about a sense of reality here. A little perspective. No party is proposing the sorts of changes you are talking about, and if they did, they wouldn't get elected. Further, the negotiations for UK trade with the EU are almost certain to include a minimum standard on various aspects of employment law (as well as environmental and agricultural and laws, many of which we wrote, and we exceed). It's hyperbolic to start talking about a return to Dickensian working conditions. How about fighting this election on the basis of the manifestos, rather than on the basis of straw men of your own choosing.
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Relax, it's evident to all of us that the Victorian era working conditions was a hyperbole. The only way for British economy to benefit from Brexit is to enable reductions in workers' rights and environmental protection however. This is, in part, hinted by the main Brexiteers.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
Relax, it's evident to all of us that the Victorian era working conditions was a hyperbole. The only way for British economy to benefit from Brexit is to enable reductions in workers' rights and environmental protection however. This is, in part, hinted by the main Brexiteers.

McHrozni
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Indeed - and they are starting from a very low place...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/album.php?albumid=317&pictureid=11215


And if this is correct from today's Independent online

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...oll-back-employee-staff-workers-a7695696.html

Ouch!
 
Darat said:
Mike you are fighting against your strawman there. You seem to have missed the humour being used.
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It wouldn't be the first time. But even re-reading Pixel's post now I can't see anything humorous or tongue in cheek. If you can, do help me out.
 
Pixel42 said:
........The whole bogus "health and safety gone mad" narrative has been preparing otherwise sensible people into accepting such a roll back for decades........
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Yeah, sorry, but there are definitely areas where health and safety has gone mad, and a careful roll-back wouldn't harm anyone's actual health or safety.
 
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