“This is what tolerance looks like at UC Berkeley”

[sadhatter]

Point taken, but that thought has a brother: the tolerance of intolerance is intolerance.

I think the antifa believe they have heard the neo-nazi speech load and clear. They are not trying to stop them from speaking, but acting in their community. From bringing the hate and violence that white supremacists have doled out for decades. While they may be misguided, I am at least trying to understand their position instead of generically demonizing them and whitewashing the neos as wholesome free speech advocates.

But no one is doing that, I and many others think that what the right wing is saying is tripe and what the antifa folks are doing is despicable.

The difference being I would support police involvement against those who choose to end words with action. If words are such a scary weapon use them at your enemies.

 

[sadhatter]

Then you forgot to read them. Specifically, I said the predictable violence would be unrelated to her speech. And I have said repeatedly that she has every right to hawk her tripe. Encouraging a socially beneficial alteration to her schedule has nothing to do with revoking rights.



I hear you, but the analogy is more than a little off. No one is saying she can never speak again. Just suggesting that altering the scheduled time might help keep order. And saying you would kill someone is a far cry from two groups fighting together.

Come to think of it, if you said that two people would mutually get into a fistfight if I posted today instead of tomorrow, I would probably not post till tomorrow. It's no skin off my back and the world might be a little more peaceful.

Then if I come in the next day and threaten the same? And the day after that, and the day after that, and so on and so forth.

It's not that hard, if all I have to do is threaten, which is exactly what folks like this want. And exactly what they will do if these tactics cause the disruption they want.

And additionally, I simply do not believe your claim that you would, upon threat of a mutually agreed upon fistfight between two unknown individuals , defer your posting for a day. I believe you would defer until you became in convinced by it, which is the point of actions such as these to cause as much inconvenience as possible until someone just gives up.

If you want to prove me wrong, by all means, do so, I'm sure I can find someone to post that if you post today they will engage in a mutually agreed to fist fight with another person. And do it once a day till the end of the forum.

The antifa crowd doesn't say "we will stop in a month" so for your claim to hold water you don't get to add time limits after the fact.

I'm not going to hold my breath on you proving me wrong though.

 

[sadhatter]

Not necessary, but thank you for your thoughtful offer. Would you like some links for how multiple kinds of action have been found to be protected as expression by the courts?

Name one that involves an unwilling participant.

 

[surreptitious57]

The radical left has been trying to shut down conservative speakers at campuses across the country because of the content of their speech

Which does not just include fascists and racists but any one who thinks differently to them. Were it only fascists and racists then one could understand
their modus operandi and even sympathise with it. Though they would still be wrong. But they go after more than them. They are not in favour of free
speech unless it is their free speech which they naturally think is the only legitimate and moral speech there should be. That strange logic may work in
totalitarian states. But it does not translate very well to liberal democracies. Particularly one which has a First Amendment enshrined in its Constitution

 

[Stout]

If recent events are any indicator, yep I'm pretty sure there's gonna be one of them there alty-cations. It may be that the neo-nazis and antifa have all spontaneously found religion and are currently singing kumbayah together, but I'm not putting any money on it. Berkeley admin seems to concur.

There were bikers and militia present at the Milo Berkley event ?

 

[Thermal]

No, I don't. They did not rebel against ANY authority, but only a specific one. They did not oppose authority in general, as that definition requires.

 

[Ziggurat]

Yeah, people often have that reaction when they realize they totally got it wrong.

 

[Thermal]

Then if I come in the next day and threaten the same? And the day after that, and the day after that, and so on and so forth.

It's not that hard, if all I have to do is threaten, which is exactly what folks like this want. And exactly what they will do if these tactics cause the disruption they want.

And additionally, I simply do not believe your claim that you would, upon threat of a mutually agreed upon fistfight between two unknown individuals , defer your posting for a day. I believe you would defer until you became in convinced by it, which is the point of actions such as these to cause as much inconvenience as possible until someone just gives up.

If you want to prove me wrong, by all means, do so, I'm sure I can find someone to post that if you post today they will engage in a mutually agreed to fist fight with another person. And do it once a day till the end of the forum.
The antifa crowd doesn't say "we will stop in a month" so for your claim to hold water you don't get to add time limits after the fact.

This is priceless. You afford yourself infinite time extensions but restrict mine.

But that absurdity aside: you seriously don't see the problem with the infinite extension provision you give yourself? I can go without eating today. But tomorrow sadhatter jumps up and says 'no, you can't eat today either, and so on and so forth.' It's not a rational argument.

I understand your point about protesters extorting speakers. It's simple enough, and reasonable. Did you know that during times of civil unrest a curfew is sometimes imposed, that affects both the criminal and...wait for it...law-abiding? I think you are exaggerating the significance of Coulter's proposed rescheduling. It's not a big deal to shift the time frame in the interests of safety. Oddly enough, I think it is prudent to do so in the interests of peace and order. You say no way, bring it on, let it go down, watch 'em all bleed. And you accuse me of supporting violence.

I'm not going to hold my breath on you proving me wrong though.

How about you hold your breath for three seconds? Then I'll say 'no, three more before you can breathe' and so on and so forth. Your logic, right?

Seriously bro...breathalyzer controlled laptop. We'll make a mint.

 

[Thermal]

There were bikers and militia present at the Milo Berkley event ?

Not that I know of, but they were definitely brought in at later rallys, which would seem to indicate that the stakes are raising. Is having concern that the situation is escalating so imprudent?

 

[Thermal]

Yeah, people often have that reaction when they realize they totally got it wrong.

Ok, I'll bite. You are equating the words 'any authority' and 'all authority'. Do you agree that 'any' and 'all' are not necessarily synonymous? Or would that mess up your equivocation?

 

[Stout]

Not that I know of, but they were definitely brought in at later rallys, which would seem to indicate that the stakes are raising. Is having concern that the situation is escalating so imprudent?

Not really, but it may be jumping the gun. We'll see in a few days.

In the Huntington Beach and latest Berkley incidents, we had antifa attacking the actual people who showed up to have a peaceful event while at the Milo event at Berkley it was mainly property destruction as a protest against freedom of expression.

Just for fun

Bernie Sanders Condemns Threats Against Ann Coulter Speech At Berkeley

 

[caveman1917]

Of course, you are wrong. I have said repeatedly that I do not agree with antifa on this. Looking at the situation from their perspective does not mean I share all their views.

What makes you think you are looking at the situation from their perspective?

 

[caveman1917]

Is having concern that the situation is escalating so imprudent?

Concern? Why would you be concerned about that?

 

[Thermal]

Not really, but it may be jumping the gun. We'll see in a few days.

In the Huntington Beach and latest Berkley incidents, we had antifa attacking the actual people who showed up to have a peaceful event while at the Milo event at Berkley it was mainly property destruction as a protest against freedom of expression.

Just for fun

Bernie Sanders Condemns Threats Against Ann Coulter Speech At Berkeley

Most of the marchers at Huntington probably were there for a peaceful rally, although the pics of masked marchers gives me a little pause. In OCWeekly's reporting, actual violence was initiated by Trump supporters, captured on video. At Milo's event, the rioting went on for hours after the event was preemptively cancelled. That tells me that Milo's speaking wasn't the real issue. At the latest rally out-of-state combatants were brought in, which to me is downright terrifying in terms of escalation.

But as you say, time will tell. One way or the other, I hope no one gets hurt.

 

[Thermal]

What makes you think you are looking at the situation from their perspective?

I don't know that I am. But I am trying like hell to. Taking a lot of flak for it too.

 

[Thermal]

Concern? Why would you be concerned about that?

Because I don't want to see people getting hurt. I have hated neo-nazis and skinheads since the '80's, long before antifa had any American presence that I saw. And street brawling doesn't give antifa any credibility (just read the postings here, or any mainstream reporting). Neos are getting normalized, and that is freaking scary. They aren't waving swastika flags anymore, they march with middle America waving American flags. This is profoundly troubling.

In my happy utopia, antifa should launch a widespread mainstream ridicule campaign. Hilight the neos as the violent fools that they are, and return them to their lowlife skinhead status. Antifa are casting themselves as the troublemakers, rightly or wrongly, and will likely not get their message out as long as violence is the preferred tactic.

 

[Stout]

I don't know that I am. But I am trying like hell to. Taking a lot of flak for it too.

You could try reading this

There's a lot of words that don't say much more than everything sucks, we need to wreck it and then everybody will come together form some sort of utopia.

More just for fun.

Snopes has devoted quite a lot of time and effort to "debunking" a claim that pretty much nobody is making and had to resort to citing some guy's obscure blog in a desperate attempt to make their case.

Hilarity ensues with the quote fro Louise where she says she was holding the bottle because she was picking up the trash....in the middle of a riot, and then goes on to say the Reuters photo had been "doctored"

Oh and she got kneed in the head "multiple times"

Speaking of antifa girl....

Her gofundme has stalled at just over 7 grand and....surprise....the purpose of the money has changed from covering her "hospital bills" and buying her a new life to developing some sort of app that's supposed to have something to do with workers. Just what that something is isn't actually clear but it looks like some sort of subscription service you can use to call in antifa stormtroopers if you're mad at your boss.

Oh...and the stormtroopers want to be paid.

Antifa looks like they're trying to start up a business.... Viva la capitalism !

 

[Mycroft]

Yeah because that's exactly what happened last time
[qimg]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Reichstag_flag_original.jpg[/qimg]

It's like you're being ironic on purpose. Are you?

Yes, at the Battle of Stalingrad the communists beat the Nazis. Then Stalin went on to oppress people by the millions. It was not a victory for freedom and human rights, it was just the armies of two despots fighting one another.

 

[sadhatter]

Any is the operative word in your definition. Which is rather obvious, or else anyone who doesn't do what everyone on ratty says would be an anarchist.

 

[sadhatter]

This is priceless. You afford yourself infinite time extensions but restrict mine.

But that absurdity aside: you seriously don't see the problem with the infinite extension provision you give yourself? I can go without eating today. But tomorrow sadhatter jumps up and says 'no, you can't eat today either, and so on and so forth.' It's not a rational argument.

I understand your point about protesters extorting speakers. It's simple enough, and reasonable. Did you know that during times of civil unrest a curfew is sometimes imposed, that affects both the criminal and...wait for it...law-abiding? I think you are exaggerating the significance of Coulter's proposed rescheduling. It's not a big deal to shift the time frame in the interests of safety. Oddly enough, I think it is prudent to do so in the interests of peace and order. You say no way, bring it on, let it go down, watch 'em all bleed. And you accuse me of supporting violence.



How about you hold your breath for three seconds? Then I'll say 'no, three more before you can breathe' and so on and so forth. Your logic, right?

Seriously bro...breathalyzer controlled laptop. We'll make a mint.

So the antifa folks follow laws now? You need to read up on the definition of assault ,if they are willing to break that law it is logical they wouldn't care much for a curfew.

So as I knew your boast was just a boast, and no you will not do exactly what you expect others to do when dealing with those that do not expect the rule of law.

Your credibility is zero at this point. Your just throwing **** at the wall and seeing what sticks.