UK General Election

So is a hard Brexit.



Oh, I'm sure the EU 27 could be made to forgive UK all of this and allow UK to remain inside EU despite invoking A50. The only question is the price - bail out Greece and Spain with British taxpayer money, join the Euro and enter into Shengen area and UK can Bremain.

As I say, that could never happen. I'm optimistic about Brexit. I was dubious on the day of the result but after seeing the scaremongering has so far proved entirely baseless there's no reason why it should not continue to be so.
 
Without knowing which party is going to be in charge, and therefore what is going to be negotiated for, how can anybody negotiate for anything?

Because the Tories are in power and can negotiate what they want for now.

A lot of the things won't change a jot between the different flavours of Brexit in any case and a lot of the negotiations will be admin/process stuff rather than real meat and bones of controversial topics.

If we somehow got a magical result where we end up with no Brexit then the negotiations can just be torn up and thrown away.

Worst case scenario you end up negotiating to change an existing framework rather than create one from scratch. Not a huge difference.
 
. However how does this election further that goal is beyond me. It's clear she is unlikely to lose the election, so how does this work to scupper Brexit or at least allow her to blame someone else for the failures?

McHrozni

Well it gives a chance of being dumped out of power and not having to implement the decision. Or a chance of having to compromise with the Lib Dems to get a coalition together.

I mean I don't think it's a great chance but maybe she's getting desperate?
 
Just listened to Corbyns statement om Radio2. Not much I can say about it, it's hardly inspiring.



I listene too (on Radio 4!) and I can't believe he didn't even mention the Brexit business.
P.S. My constituency is New Forest West so Desmond Swayne has no worries about being returned as MP - which I'm quite happy about as apart from being a brexiteer - grrrr - he is a good MP.
 
Just thought I'd check and my Tory MP has nearly 60% of the vote here. He's also a supporter of homeopathy apparently. And a Brexiteer. Ho hum.
 
Oh, I'm sure the EU 27 could be made to forgive UK all of this and allow UK to remain inside EU despite invoking A50. The only question is the price - bail out Greece and Spain with British taxpayer money, join the Euro and enter into Shengen area and UK can Bremain.

This would be probably less bad for UK than what Theresa will bring, oddly enough.

McHrozni
You forgot: abolishing the GBP 100mn/week rebate that Mrs. T negotiated, and henceforth pay what everyone else is paying too.
 
Negotiations can proceed in the meantime. There's no need to wait for the GE result.
Absolutely not. You don't know what party will be in power on 10 June nor what they want. It would be a waste of time of the EU negotiators to start negotiation in these circumstances.

May already comes quite unprepared to the negotiations, despite having taken 9 months time for preparations. and now she voids 2.5 months of the already tight deadline. I'd say the UK government is acting in bad faith toward the EU.

Because the Tories are in power and can negotiate what they want for now.
It takes two to tango. With the call for new elections, you now have a lame duck government that can make no decisions. Why would any EU negotiator come to the table when in two months time, there might be another government that wants it differently?
 
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May has called for a general election, if she gets the votes it will be in June.

At the end of this year many of us will be able to reminisce about when there used to be something called "an opposition".
The only opposition party that seems to have its ducks in a row is the SNP. Maybe you could beg them to pretty please field candidates in England & Wales? For instance in the historic Scottish burgh of Islington. :)
 
I must admit I have trouble seeing her endgame. As others have pointed out, the PM has sufficient seats to ensure that the eventual deal will go through unless it is so blindingly obviously bad that there is a sizeable backbench rebellion. Of course that may yet come, but in that case all bets would be off anyway.

On the other hand if the objective is to neutralise the SNP and Indyref2, then it would probably been wiser to hang on until after the local government elections at the start of May inasmuch as they would have been a litmus test for Nationalist support mid-term. For what it's worth i don't see any real change in the Scottish political landscape and even if a couple of seats went one way or t'other it would be difficult to see the SNP having anything other than a majority of (Scottish) MPs being returned.

All very peculiar indeed.
 
Absolutely not. You don't know what party will be in power on 10 June nor what they want. It would be a waste of time of the EU negotiators to start negotiation in these circumstances.

Not as much of a waste of time as not doing anything would be. And it doesn't matter what party is in power for many things. Still if that's TM's line that she can't negotiate for months because she might not win the election then let her say that.

May already comes quite unprepared to the negotiations, despite having taken 9 months time for preparations. and now she voids 2.5 months of the already tight deadline. I'd say the UK government is acting in bad faith toward the EU.

It's only 7 weeks till June 8th. I'd say the UK government is acting in bad faith to everyone. not just the EU. But they are Tories. What do you expect?

It takes two to tango. With the call for new elections, you now have a lame duck government that can make no decisions. Why would any EU negotiator come to the table when in two months time, there might be another government that wants it differently?

Because as I've said there are lots of things that can be agreed in principle that would still be progress towards the end goal even if the specifics might change. And we are paying the wages of the negotiators in the meantime so they might as well do their jobs.
 
Not as much of a waste of time as not doing anything would be. And it doesn't matter what party is in power for many things. Still if that's TM's line that she can't negotiate for months because she might not win the election then let her say that.
I think you don't understand what I'm saying.

Why would the EU negotiators go to the table with a British lame duck government?

Time is crucial for the UK, not the EU, in these negotiations.

It's only 7 weeks till June 8th. I'd say the UK government is acting in bad faith to everyone. not just the EU. But they are Tories. What do you expect?
Fair enough. As to the time: isn't the time from 29 March until now also kind-of wasted?
 
I must admit I have trouble seeing her endgame. As others have pointed out, the PM has sufficient seats to ensure that the eventual deal will go through unless it is so blindingly obviously bad that there is a sizeable backbench rebellion. Of course that may yet come, but in that case all bets would be off anyway.

On the other hand if the objective is to neutralise the SNP and Indyref2, then it would probably been wiser to hang on until after the local government elections at the start of May inasmuch as they would have been a litmus test for Nationalist support mid-term. For what it's worth i don't see any real change in the Scottish political landscape and even if a couple of seats went one way or t'other it would be difficult to see the SNP having anything other than a majority of (Scottish) MPs being returned.

All very peculiar indeed.

It may just be a delaying tactic on Scotref. It can probably quite legitimately now be parked for 3 months as a question.

Any reduction in SNP representation (and lets face it the only way they can go is down from their current position) can be spun to strengthen their position that Scottish people don't agree with the SNP on this one.

In that regard its maybe tactically fairly clever. It'll be interesting to see if the SNP have prepared for such a possibility and what their reaction may be.

I guess the base model response is fight it like a normal GE on a Scotref ticket and use a majority of MPs being returned as a clear mandate although I don't see how that gains them anything from today.

A high risk move might well be to use the GE as Indyref and run on a ticket of negotiating independence with Westminster. This used to be their position but they have since backed away towards the referendum approach.

I'm not sure what legitimacy that move would have with a few dozen Westminster MPs.

Could they double whammy it and have a Scottish Election on the same day in the hope of getting a clear SNP majority in Holyrood and using that as a mandate to declare independence? I don't think that would work either.

So, since the Tories have nothing to lose in Scotland and the SNP little to gain it might well be that May thinks there is not much at risk from her point of view. She can probably only end up in a stronger position.

The short timeframe on this probably also causes problems for any large scale tactical voting or political coalitions to form but I guess it could be a possibility. A Bremain Alliance forming might be interesting.
 
I think you don't understand what I'm saying.

Why would the EU negotiators go to the table with a British lame duck government?

Time is crucial for the UK, not the EU, in these negotiations.

The EU negotiators have an obligation to negotiate as Art 50 has been triggered in line with the constitution of the EU. They cannot refuse to negotiate. Of course they don't have to agree to anything and they could certainly use the election as an excuse to be non-commital but then it would be them that was acting in bad faith.

Fair enough. As to the time: isn't the time from 29 March until now also kind-of wasted?

Not unless whatever work done till now is going to be thrown away. I assume they've agreed on important stuff like meeting times, locations, biscuit preferences and scheduling of lunches?
 
Because the Tories are in power and can negotiate what they want for now.

Yes, but if it's all change in 2 months' time then that will all be time wasted. Besides which, they've now got to concentrate on winning an election. You don't do that without putting in time and effort, even if you are massively ahead in the polls.
 
Apparently TM has said she won't take part in any TV debates for the election. Has she actually gone mental?

I do expect her to go the full Maggie and start using the royal we about herself any day soon now. It seems PMs go mad in office quicker these days.
 
I must admit I have trouble seeing her endgame. As others have pointed out, the PM has sufficient seats to ensure that the eventual deal will go through unless it is so blindingly obviously bad that there is a sizeable backbench rebellion. Of course that may yet come, but in that case all bets would be off anyway.

On the other hand if the objective is to neutralise the SNP and Indyref2, then it would probably been wiser to hang on until after the local government elections at the start of May inasmuch as they would have been a litmus test for Nationalist support mid-term. For what it's worth i don't see any real change in the Scottish political landscape and even if a couple of seats went one way or t'other it would be difficult to see the SNP having anything other than a majority of (Scottish) MPs being returned.

All very peculiar indeed.

Brexit will have happened in 2 years. This is almost certainly going to be a bad thing for the UK. There was going to be an election the year after. So the Tories would be trying to get re-elected with the whole country reeling from the fallout of Brexit, weakening their position considerably. And who knows what the opposition will be like at that point?

Now, however, they're riding high in the polls, the Lib Dems haven't recovered from the Coalition, Labour is toothless and falling apart, and she can frame voting Tory as being the only way to ensure a good result of Brexit - meaning people are even more likely to vote for them. So they get elected now, and then there's not another election until 2022, 3 years after Brexit, giving the country time to recover and people enough time to forget the reason for the country being up the crapper in the first place.

Basically, doing it like this guarantees them control of the country for the next 5 years, and gives them the best chance of winning the next election, too.
 

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