LDS II: The Mormons

Slowvehicle said:
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

What evidence are you prepared to offer in support of this supposed visit (short of the mere assertion of the BoM, of course)?

I remain, historically yours &ct.
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I read and studied the BOM fairly muchly and over the years have gained a testimony that it is true. IOW, God told me so.

bb
 
MikeG et al,

Claim A: Jesus died and was resurrected.
Onus for Claim A: mine.

Claim B: no one has ever come back from the dead.
Onus for claim B: yours.

There are two different claims here with two different onuses.

bb
 
No, I said evidence. A book full of patent falsehoods can't in any way be said to be evidence.
 
Billy Baxter said:
MikeG et al,

Claim A: Jesus died and was resurrected.
Onus for Claim A: mine.

Claim B: no one has ever come back from the dead.
Onus for claim B: yours.

There are two different claims here with two different onuses.

bb
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No. You support your claim and that automatically disproves mine. You claim is the root of mine (ie to which mine responded).
 
MikeG said:
No. You support your claim and that automatically disproves mine. You claim is the root of mine (ie to which mine responded).
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still waiting for you to accomplish the impossible-to-prove claim you've made.

bb
 
It doesn't even begin to fit into the category of evidence. It was written nearly 2000 years after any of the events it describes. It cannot be tested. It contains falsehoods with regard to actual matters of fact. There isn't any standard by which it could be described as evidence. It is perfectly fair enough to describe it as an article of faith, or whatever. To claim that it is holy, or the word of god, or whatever you want to ascribe to it other than the word evidence. The last thing it is, or that it contains, is evidence.
 
Billy Baxter said:
still waiting for you to accomplish the impossible-to-prove claim you've made.

bb
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You can wait all you like. You are the one who made the claim that resurrection is possible. I simply said that it had never happened. I should perhaps have been more careful and said "there is no empirical, testable, falsifiable evidence that resurrection has ever happened". Now, you claimed that it has happened, and you claimed that first. Over to you.
 
MikeG said:
It doesn't even begin to fit into the category of evidence. It was written nearly 2000 years after any of the events it describes. It cannot be tested. It contains falsehoods with regard to actual matters of fact. There isn't any standard by which it could be described as evidence. It is perfectly fair enough to describe it as an article of faith, or whatever. To claim that it is holy, or the word of god, or whatever you want to ascribe to it other than the word evidence. The last thing it is, or that it contains, is evidence.
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still waiting.... nothing you've said even remotely disproves the doctrines of Christ the BOM teaches so masterfully.

bb
 
Billy Baxter said:
I read and studied the BOM fairly muchly and over the years have gained a testimony that it is true. IOW, God told me so.

bb
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My Dear Mr. Baxter:

You continue to appear to struggle with the difference between evidence and assertion. I know you believe the exciting stories of the BoM; other than your belief, have you any actual evidence to offer?

I remain, objectively yours &ct.
 
Billy Baxter said:
class, repeat after me:

if you reject the evidence... need i complete the saying again?

bb
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My Dear Mr. Baxter:

Your belief is not "evidence" of anything but your beleif. You have admitted you have no concrete, testable, physical, empirical, practical, non-anecdotal, objective evidence for your claims.

You are welcome to your beliefs; that does not transmogrify them into evidence.

I remain, didactically yours &ct.
 
Billy Baxter said:
still waiting for you to accomplish the impossible-to-prove claim you've made.

bb
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My Dear Mr. Baxter:

When do you intend to support the claims you have made, with anything mre than assertion of your personal revelation?

For that matter, where in the xian bible might one find support for the claim that men can become 'gods'?

I remain, empirically yours &ct.
 
Slowvehicle said:
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

You continue to appear to struggle with the difference between evidence and assertion. I know you believe the exciting stories of the BoM; other than your belief, have you any actual evidence to offer?

I remain, objectively yours &ct.
Click to expand...

John 7:17; James 1:5; Moroni 10:3-5; &ct.

bb
 
Slowvehicle said:
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

When do you intend to support the claims you have made, with anything mre than assertion of your personal revelation?

For that matter, where in the xian bible might one find support for the claim that men can become 'gods'?

I remain, empirically yours &ct.
Click to expand...

Are we finished discussing speckled horses and their ability to somehow disprove the BOM?

bb
 
Billy Baxter said:
I've read the BOM seven or eight times and have never encountered a lie in it.



bb
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No, you failed to fact check its claims. You can claim any politician is devoid of lies if you never fact check what they say.

Let's start with some of the absurd scientific claims in the BOM:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/bom/sci/long.html

1 Nephi seems a good place to start.

For people unfamiliar with the BOM, Nephi is described as a prophet, but if you read his account you see he may be the single most inept and stupid prophet in history. I'd compare him to the Keystone Cops, but that would be insulting to the Keystone Cops. If Nephi's biography were made into a movie Ben Stiller would have to play the prophet as the text is essentially humiliation porn.

God appears to have made Nephi a prophet in order to watch the single dumbest Jew in history suffer.

Nephi was also full of enough ******** to fertilize every farm in North America for a decade. He told some whoppers:

1 Nephi

1. "I make a record in the language of my father ... the language of the Egyptians." That's a strange language an Israelite around 600 BCE to write in! 1:2

2. Apparently the 400+ km hike from Jerusalem to the Red Sea took only three days. 2:5-6

3. Lehi named a "continually running" river that flowed from Arabia to the Red Sea after his son Laman. But there are no permanent rivers in Arabia and there is no evidence that such rivers existed in 600 BCE. 2:8-9

4. God made the New World just for Nephi and his family. (For though it had been occupied by the Native Americans for tens of thousands of years, God made it for Nephi, not for them.) 2:20

5. Laban's sword blade was made of steel, long before steel existed. 4:9

6. "And he, supposing that I spake of the brethren of the church, and that I was truly that Laban whom I had slain, wherefore he did follow me."
Laban's servant figured Nephi was Laban and that he spoke for the church. What church? The Jews in 600 BCE didn't have churches, did they? 4:26

7. Lehi's brass plates told the story of Adam and Eve "who were our first parents." (So Mormons know Evolution is false.) 5:11

8. Nephi sees "many cities" settled by the Nephites in the New World. Yet no evidence of them has ever been found. 12:3

9. And then it came to pass that Nephi broke his steel bow. Of course steel didn't exist at the time, wouldn't work well for a bow anyway, and would be hard to break. But, oh well. This is the Book of Mormon. 16:18

10. They come to a place that they call Bountiful, "because of its much fruit and also wild honey." But the Arabian coastline does not abound in fruit or honey, and hasn't for many thousands of years. 17:5

11. "We did work timbers of curious workmanship." But where did Nephi get the lumber? There are very few trees in the Arabian desert. 18:1

12. After arriving in the New World, Nephi and company planted all of the seeds that they brought from "the land of Jerusalem" and "they did grow exceedingly." Yet there is no evidence that Near Eastern crops ever grew in the New World in pre-Columbian times. 18:24

13. Nephi found cows, horses, oxen, asses, and goats and goats when he arrived in the New World in 590 BCE. Yet none of these domesticated animals existed in North America before the Europeans brought them over 2000 years later. 18:25
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