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Cont: President Trump: Part 3

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Bob001 said:
I just note that he wasn't really all that successful as a developer either. He mostly licenses his name to people who, god help us, think it means "luxury."
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Trump actually did some pretty successful developments in Manhattan. The Grand Hyatt Hotel on E. 42nd Street near Grand Central, the Trump Tower, some others that involved renovating older buildings. It sounds like his golf courses have done pretty well. I think the reality is, he stopped doing that and started mostly doing licensing because he can no longer get financing from most major banks. He burned them too often in bankruptcies.
 
Babbylonian said:
What to do about your subconscious biases: Don't exhibit them. Act as if you don't have them.

If one is exhibiting their subconscious biases (based on "race") then, yeah, it's fair to call them racist. This really isn't rocket science.
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At least try and make an effort to be honest with yourself, through introspection, of biases and try and counter them as best you can. Seems like a reasonable and decent thing to do.
 
trustbutverify said:
At least try and make an effort to be honest with yourself, through introspection, of biases and try and counter them as best you can. Seems like a reasonable and decent thing to do.
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Exactly. And looping this back around to the thread's topic, if you see someone of middle eastern descent and you think about terrorism, that is your failure that you need to repair, not a failure of Islam, western immigration policies, or the Arabian Peninsula. The current thing occupying the Oval Office and everyone else supporting a ban on immigration from the Middle East (or whole countries therein) are racists.
 
TragicMonkey said:
And on the other hand, if a nude Trump runs screaming into the hallway, slathered in his own feces, gibbering "we gotta nuke Italy! The pope is working with the lizard people!" and dives for the Big Red Button, I'm confident a patriotic security person would put him in a headlock.
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In the Trump White House, this scenario is colloquially referred to as "Tuesday".
 
Bob001 said:
Trump wanted to make his inaugural parade look like Red Square:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...-inaugural-parade_us_58d094d1e4b00705db5223ed
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Ah. A classic sign of being smitten with another: you start doing the things that your crush likes doing in the hopes of getting their attention and showing you having something in common.

Babbylonian said:
Exactly. And looping this back around to the thread's topic, if you see someone of middle eastern descent and you think about terrorism, that is your failure that you need to repair...
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That might be poor wording on your part, but I don't think it's necessarily wrong that seeing someone of Middle Eastern descent might trigger thoughts about terrorism, especially given the current culture. It's natural, when seeing something or someone, to be reminded of certain topics associated with some attribute of that thing or person.

What would be wrong is if you think, "I wonder if this person is a terrorist." It's worse if you don't stop yourself and think, "That would be statistically unlikely. Get a hold of yourself, me."
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
That might be poor wording on your part, but I don't think it's necessarily wrong that seeing someone of Middle Eastern descent might trigger thoughts about terrorism, especially given the current culture. It's natural, when seeing something or someone, to be reminded of certain topics associated with some attribute of that thing or person.
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I stand by my wording. Note that I said it would be a failure...and a failure of which I've been partially guilty, though my thoughts generally go in the direction of wondering how they feel about their probable religion (I frequently see women wearing their hijabs on the bus; seeing full burqas and niqabs is rare) being constantly **** upon by political opportunists.

I purposely didn't say that it would mean the person thinking about terrorism in that context would [necessarily] be racist.
 
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...sh-really-thought-of-trumps-inauguration.html

After Trump's inauguration speech, Bush reportedly said, "That was some weird ****."

It's sad people are pining for the days of W., who still remains the worst president of my life time. If you wanna talk about not giving a ****, there was the time he did this on Letterman:



Or after shaking hands with Haitians:



So he had all of the terrible policies, and the unbelievably entitled every day behavior, yet he's now being viewed as "adorable" because he can't put on a pancho.
 
Mumbles said:
Stacko said:
The Trump administration removed the “civil rights” page from http://WhiteHouse.gov.

That's a disturbing dichotomy they want to push.
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Good. After the Muslim ban, and their harassment of Latino people, they don't deserve to work under the mantle of Civil Rights. No point pretending that they're anything but white nationalists. The people marching against them represent Civil Rights - and folks like John Lewis and Maxine Waters in congress.

And again, same for anyone who voted for this. Keep names like Martin Luther King out your mouths.
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I don't disagree with the sentiment you are expressing, but what I find disturbing is that they bothered to remove the page in the first place.

It wasn't necessary. It isn't like they'd run out of room on the web site. The only reason for dumping it is as a direct, conscious slap in the face to anyone who supports civil rights.

As well as a largely overt gesture of solidarity with those who oppose them.

It is an unsubtle way of tossing raw meat to their core supporters.
 
I live near Balmedie in NE Scotland, where Trump built one of his golf courses. Now I am not saying it is failing but it certainly isn't doing the business he promised the local community. It is entirely possible the USA won't do as well as he promised either...
 
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Cain said:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...sh-really-thought-of-trumps-inauguration.html

After Trump's inauguration speech, Bush reportedly said, "That was some weird ****."

It's sad people are pining for the days of W., who still remains the worst president of my life time. If you wanna talk about not giving a ****, there was the time he did this on Letterman:



Or after shaking hands with Haitians:



So he had all of the terrible policies, and the unbelievably entitled every day behavior, yet he's now being viewed as "adorable" because he can't put on a pancho.
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I wouldn't say that I'm "pining" for GWB in any way - particularly when Hillary Clinton would likely have been a very good president. However, I have no doubt that GWB will, in the end, be a better president that Toupee Fiasco will. If nothing else, GWB had some clue about what the president was supposed to be, and avoided the outright racial and ethnic hatred that Trump wallows in.
 
phiwum said:
I agree that I don't deliberately hold any racist views, and I presume that you don't either. That said, I seem to have some unintentional biases based on race, and I bet you do too. So, our difference is merely semantic.
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I really don't think so, because Turtle's way of using the word means that you can never say that someone is not racist. There's always an out for him, or anybody else, to say "how would they know that they're not racist?? EH????" and thus everybody's racist. It's not merely semantics; there's a pragmatic consequence to using the word that way.
 
Argumemnon said:
All bias is not racism or sexism, correct.
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And when a cop shoots someone because of those biases it is a minor thing and not a big deal. People need to be more forgiving of when good people kill for bad reasons.


I already told you this: it has to be conscious. In fact you've been arguing against me on this. How could you possible now forget?



I didn't say it wasn't a problem. But let's call things what they are. If Turtle is right, everybody is a racist, and the term loses all possible meaning.
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No it just loses all offensiveness in calling people it, it changes the discussion from the person to the action. As it is a racist is such a caricature that it is useless for talking about real people and events.

You have removed the word of any real utility by labeling it as the worst thing a white person can be and accepting no less than full blown neo nazi's as being actually racist. And not the soft spoken ones like Richard Spencer either.
 
CapelDodger said:
There's always a pivot-pont when you're the guy with the gun.
When you look into it you'll find it was generally about who outbid who in those cases, and the whole thing was arranged. In this case it's a lot more personal and immediate : your family is out there, and Trump is going to trigger Armageddon the moment he's safely embunkered. That's what he's saying anyway, and on this one occasion you've no good reason to disbelieve him. Trump really would destroy the world in a fit of pique because it would mean nothing to him, and the guys who get near Trump with guns know that. Pathological psychopathy is on their curriculum.
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And what if it isn't full nuclear war with russia but a nuclear first strike against Iran?
 
phiwum said:
It's merely a matter of semantics. The first two quotes exhibit egregious racism, to be sure. The third quote is apparently from a person who is not overtly racist, but has some racist biases. Whether we want to call him racist or not is a mere matter of semantics.

I am, if certain online tests are to be believed, in the camp of the third man. I wish I weren't, I wish that I was in the camp of the unmentioned fourth man, one who "doesn't see color".
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So you want to be Bill O'Reilly? That means you will be shocked that black people can run a restaurant and not have it be a mad house.
 
newyorkguy said:
Trump actually did some pretty successful developments in Manhattan. The Grand Hyatt Hotel on E. 42nd Street near Grand Central, the Trump Tower, some others that involved renovating older buildings. It sounds like his golf courses have done pretty well. I think the reality is, he stopped doing that and started mostly doing licensing because he can no longer get financing from most major banks. He burned them too often in bankruptcies.
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Not all of them

He argues that he destroyed the value of the land in westchester by building a golf course on it after all.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/18/news/donald-trump-golf-course-taxes/
 
Argumemnon said:
I really don't think so, because Turtle's way of using the word means that you can never say that someone is not racist. There's always an out for him, or anybody else, to say "how would they know that they're not racist?? EH????" and thus everybody's racist. It's not merely semantics; there's a pragmatic consequence to using the word that way.
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Exactly. You have to talk about their actions not them as a person. As it is white fragility is such that any discussion of racism is seen as such a huge personal insult that it shuts down any discussion.
 
ponderingturtle said:
And when a cop shoots someone because of those biases it is a minor thing and not a big deal.
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Can it not be a big deal AND not racist?

Are your beliefs so fragile that any dissent must automatically be seen as the exact opposite of all your beliefs combined? If I say that piracy is not theft by the legal definition, does that mean that I think piracy is ok? That makes no sense, and simply exposes the insecurity of your position.

You have removed the word of any real utility by labeling it as the worst thing a white person can be and accepting no less than full blown neo nazi's as being actually racist.
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I have done nothing of the sort. Kindly stop making stuff up about what I say and believe. I've told you what I believe clearly.
 
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