The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 24

[acbytesla]

That's the judges' job and that what they did: they judged the evidence was, there were multiple attackers/accomplices.

A perfect example of your dishonest approach. You are willing to dismiss the overwhelming consensus of EXPERTS and embrace legal officials instead. Just don't pretend there isn't very good reason for the rest of us to believe there was only a single attacker.

 

[acbytesla]

This reminds me of the Stephen Avery supporters. They are furious because police got Dassey to be truthful about his involvement. He was there, he did it.

A perp tells the truth: must be police coercion. Shouldn't be allowed!

But there is no evidence that Amanda's statement is the truth. IN FACT, we know it wasn't even close to the truth. Amanda doesn't say she was involved, she doesn't say Raffaele was involved, she doesn't say that Rudy was involved. She says she doesn't trust her statement and names Patrick very unconvincingly.

Let's see what is wrong with her statement.

1. No evidence Amanda was there that night
2. No evidence Raffaele was there that night
3. Evidence that Patrick wasn't there.
4. Nothing about the person who left his DNA inside Meredith.
5. Nothing about the person that left bloody shoe prints throughout the house.
6. Nothing about the person who left his bloody palmprint.
7. Nothing about the person who was convicted.
8. Not a word about Rudy.

Amanda's statement is false from beginning to end. Even Amanda shows in the wording that she doesn't believe it. This hardly supports your case.

Nevertheless;

hundreds of convicted prisoners have been exonerated by DNA and non-DNA evidence, revealing that police-induced false confessions are a leading cause of wrongful conviction of the innocent.
http://jaapl.org/content/37/3/332

It's a free country so you're still entitled to believe what you want. But don't pretend that the rest of us don't have very good rational logical reasons to accept the FINAL OUTCOME that Amanda and Raffaele are both innocent and Rudy is guilty.

 

[Bill Williams]

This reminds me of the Stephen Avery supporters. They are furious because police got Dassey to be truthful about his involvement. He was there, he did it.

A perp tells the truth: must be police coercion. Shouldn't be allowed!

But there is no evidence that Amanda's statement is the truth. IN FACT, we know it wasn't even close to the truth. Amanda doesn't say she was involved, she doesn't say Raffaele was involved, she doesn't say that Rudy was involved. She says she doesn't trust her statement and names Patrick very unconvincingly.

Vixen is unaware that the Reid Technique of interrogations is slowly being walked back - including the interrogation training organization which has recently come out against it.




http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/youre-guilty-now-confess-false-admissions-put-polices-favourite-interrogation-tactic-under-scrutiny

http://commlawreview.org/Archives/CLRv10i2/Arguments%20Against%20Use%20of%20the%20%20Reid%20Technique%20CLRv10i2.pdf

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/5ufvej/the_reid_technique_cunning_interrogation_method/

This is famed Jim Smyth's reason why it works, assuming the person is guilty.

(The Reid Technique is) an accusatory process in which the investigator tells the suspect that the results of the investigation clearly indicate that he did commit the crime in question. The interrogation is in the form of a monologue presented by the investigator rather than a question and answer format. The demeanour of the investigator during the course of an interrogation is ideally understanding, patient, and non-demeaning. The Reid technique user's goal is to make the suspect gradually more comfortable with telling the truth. This is accomplished by the investigators' first imagining and then offering the suspect various psychological constructs as justification for their behaviour.​

But when it doesn't work.....

Smyth's work, however, also demonstrates how the technique can be viewed by the courts as a violation of a suspect's rights. In 2011, Cory Armishaw was cleared of second-degree murder over the shaking death of three-month-old Jaydin Lindeman, with the presiding judge ruling Armishaw's confession to Smyth was involuntary,

“obtained by threats of harsh, severe and unsympathetic treatment from the courts if Mr. Armishaw did not give up the right to remain silent and confess.”​

 

[acbytesla]

Vixen is unaware that the Reid Technique of interrogations is slowly being walked back - including the interrogation training organization which has recently come out against it.

I doubt it would matter to her. Vixen believes what she believes and it doesn't matter that the evidence contradicts her. This is faith.

 

[Stacyhs]

I am the only one around here not blinkered. So you once spoke to Edda and shook the hand of Amanda's fake fiance, and now you're her fiercest champion.

Uh-huh. That's got to be it. Just because no one else can see the pink unicorn doesn't mean you don't see it, right?

By the way, meeting them was the result of my support, not the cause of it. Most people could have figured that one out.

 

[TruthCalls]

Uh-huh. That's got to be it. Just because no one else can see the pink unicorn doesn't mean you don't see it, right?

By the way, meeting them was the result of my support, not the cause of it. Most people could have figured that one out.

I've never met them yet I consider myself an advocate of Amanda AND Raffaele. Then again, I'm sorta into this whole 'justice/injustice:get the right verdict' thing, so that might have something to do with it. Odd, huh?

 

[acbytesla]

Uh-huh. That's got to be it. Just because no one else can see the pink unicorn doesn't mean you don't see it, right?

By the way, meeting them was the result of my support, not the cause of it. Most people could have figured that one out.

I'd like to see a pink unicorn.

 

[Stacyhs]

As of the time of the murder he had no arrest record, unlike Amanda and Raff.

And when had either Amanda or Raffaele been arrested before Nov 6, 2007?

Neither of them been caught with a stolen laptop, unlike Guede. Neither had been caught with a stolen cell phone, unlike Guede. Neither had been caught with a stolen knife, unlike Guede. Neither had broken into someone else's business, unlike Guede (or "trespassed", if you believe his cock and bull story about the S American guy). Neither had broken into someone's home and threatened the owner with a knife, unlike Guede.

 

[Stacyhs]

I've never met them yet I consider myself an advocate of Amanda AND Raffaele. Then again, I'm sorta into this whole 'justice/injustice:get the right verdict' thing, so that might have something to do with it. Odd, huh?

You're just a rebel.

 

[acbytesla]

As of the time of the murder he had no arrest record, unlike Amanda and Raff.

And when had either Amanda or Raffaele been arrested before Nov 6, 2007?

Neither of them been caught with a stolen laptop, unlike Guede. Neither had been caught with a stolen cell phone, unlike Guede. Neither had been caught with a stolen knife, unlike Guede. Neither had broken into someone else's business, unlike Guede (or "trespassed", if you believe his cock and bull story about the S American guy). Neither had broken into someone's home and threatened the owner with a knife, unlike Guede.

Rudy DID have an arrest record. He WAS arrested in Milan. An arrest for which he would eventually be convicted of. That he had yet to be convicted means little in evaluating the probability that Rudy was at it again at the cottage.

 

[whoanellie]

That was conversational shorthand for the source of DNA sampling.

Apparently I am expected to write dissertations on a chat forum.

Sorry Vixen, your conversational shorthand excuse doesn't hold any water. If you are going to discuss forensic science on a chat forum you it would help if you had a basic understanding of the science.

 

[Matthew Best]

Now you are claiming I am stupid, uneducated and have never read books.

Do you have any evidence of that?

Approximately 7,791 pieces of evidence.

 

[Welshman]

Oh, dear...here we go again with you playing fast and loose with the facts.

Amanda never wrote a story about rape and murder, much less "stories".

She wrote one story called "Baby Brother" about a brother's deep disappointment and anger over his brother drugging and raping a girl. The rape is only alluded to and is never described. No one was murdered. It's not a story about rape, but the destroyed relationship between the two brothers.
It was a writing class assignment. But very nice try at twisting it into a story of "rape and murder". Someone who was not aware of the truth would most likely actually believe you. We know better here.

Vixen lies about Amanda wrote in her story. Vixen and other PGP have viciously attacked Amanda for lying and I recall Machiavelli calling Amanda a malicious liar. The PGP spread lies about Amanda and Vixen's dishonesty about what Amanda wrote in her story is just one of numerous examples. Branding someone a liar and then spread lies about them shows a staggering level of hypocrisy.

If there was such a mountain of evidence against Amanda and Raffaele, why do PGP need to lie about what Amanda wrote in a story and numerous other lies. You should never have to resort to lying to argue your case if the prosecution have a mountain of solid evidence and a slam dunk case.

 

[Stacyhs]

Rudy DID have an arrest record. He WAS arrested in Milan. An arrest for which he would eventually be convicted of. That he had yet to be convicted means little in evaluating the probability that Rudy was at it again at the cottage.

Yes, you are quite right. He was arrested at the school and taken to the police station. It's been a long-standing question as to why exactly he was released. According to Burleigh, the police did not want to let him go, but the prosecutor (after calling the Perugia police) ordered him returned to Perugia.

 

[acbytesla]

Yes, you are quite right. He was arrested at the school and taken to the police station. It's been a long-standing question as to why exactly he was released. According to Burleigh, the police did not want to let him go, but the prosecutor (after calling the Perugia police) ordered him returned to Perugia.

I didn't find it that surprising that Rudy was released. It would be considered a petty crime pretty much everywhere and jail space is valuable. It's easy in hindsight to say it was a mistake. But from a practical perspective it's very understandable.

 

[Stacyhs]

I didn't find it that surprising that Rudy was released. It would be considered a petty crime pretty much everywhere and jail space is valuable. It's easy in hindsight to say it was a mistake. But from a practical perspective it's very understandable.

We disagree on that. Breaking and entering to burglarize, stealing a deadly weapon, plus being found with stolen property from another burglary is certainly not something that should have been just excused with a "get out of town" warning.

 

[acbytesla]

We disagree on that. Breaking and entering to burglarize, stealing a deadly weapon, plus being found with stolen property from another burglary is certainly not something that should have been just excused with a "get out of town" warning.

Burglary isn't the crime you seem to think it is. With Rudy's clean record in many if not most jurisdictions at least in the US Rudy would have been probably released that day or the next on personal recognizance. But there are a lot of arbitrary factors in that decision. So while this might be true in April, it might not be in May. A lot has to do with space in the jails.

 

[bagels]

Many states are moving to CODIS DNA entry upon arrest. If such a system was in place at the time of the crime in Italy, the DNA from the rapekit would have caught Rudy before the investigation even began, and the ISF would have 100,000+ posts freed up from its database, possibly saving on server resources which could be translated into a slightly faster thread loading for all the other threads. Everyone wins.

 

[Stacyhs]

Burglary isn't the crime you seem to think it is. With Rudy's clean record in many if not most jurisdictions at least in the US Rudy would have been probably released that day or the next on personal recognizance. But there are a lot of arbitrary factors in that decision. So while this might be true in April, it might not be in May. A lot has to do with space in the jails.

I doubt that he would still have been in jail for the B&E/POSP by the time Meredith was murdered. He'd have been charged, as you said, then most likely either been bonded out (do they do that in Italy/) or been released on his own recognizance.

But was he actually even charged with anything before being released?
When was he charged with possession/receipt of stolen property for which he was eventually convicted? Did they only press this charge after his arrest for murder?

 

[Stacyhs]

Many states are moving to CODIS DNA entry upon arrest. If such a system was in place at the time of the crime in Italy, the DNA from the rapekit would have caught Rudy before the investigation even began, and the ISF would have 100,000+ posts freed up from its database, possibly saving on server resources which could be translated into a slightly faster thread loading for all the other threads. Everyone wins.

If I remember correctly, the police believed they'd solved the case and arrested AK and RS even before the rape sample had been analyzed. If they'd waited, as they should have, all the forensic samples collected on Nov 2 would have shown only Guede's presence in the bedroom.