JFK Conspiracy Theories IV: The One With The Whales

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HSienzant said:
I'm sure you'd like to believe that, but you have yet to come close to proving it. A good start would be a complete scenario of how a bullet was discovered at Parkland, and where it came from, if it wasn't CE399 and a bullet from the assassination. I'd really like to hear your theory there, but you get awfully reticent when asked to flesh out your argument with something resembling a scenario. I've asked multiple times, and you ignored every request for this info.




Who determined the initials are not scratched thereon? A conspiracy theorist. But Elmer Todd examined the bullet, and found his initials on it. (last paragraph on the right side of page: http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0215b.htm

So who do I believe? The agent who actually found his initials on the bullet, or the conspiracy theorist who claims they aren't there, but doesn't show the whole bullet?





Your problem is all you have is speculation. If you stuck to the medical evidence, and the expert testimony, you'd have conceded the arguments months ago. But you substitute your own interpretations for those of the medical experts, and then try to argue your speculations need to be disproven. No, they don't. You need to prove them, and thus far, you haven't come close on any issue you've raised in the past six months or so (however long you've been posting here).

Hank
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JAQing off.

In some examples, even the classics get old.
 
cmikes said:
One bullet entered the back of JFK's skull and exited through a massive wound in the right front of JFK's skull. Do you agree with this statement? Why or why not?
MicahJava said:
No. We've already gone over why that is almost certainly not true.
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The 'why' consists almost entirely of you substituting your own non-expert opinion for that of every qualified person who ever looked at the body, or at the extant autopsy materials.

Every expert has determined JFK was struck twice, and only twice, both shots coming from behind, and only from behind.

You want to claim that's wrong, but you've no standing here to question the expert opinion, which is why you're getting no traction on your arguments.

Hank
 
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Hans said:
I lurk here at times and as noted above one has to wonder who the moron-in-charge would have been to have crafted the 'plan' that had to be in place for all the things the believers come up with to have Oswald not be the real shooter.
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Yes, it is beyond belief. At times, the argument gets so complex I get the feeling the "plotters" in these arguments were more concerned with framing Oswald than killing the President.

Hank
 
HSienzant said:
The 'why' consists almost entirely of you substituting your own non-expert opinion for that of every qualified person who ever looked at the body, or at the extant autopsy materials.

Every expert has determined JFK was struck twice, and only twice, both shots coming from behind, and only from behind.

You want to claim that's wrong, but you've no standing here to question the expert opinion, which is why you're getting no traction on your arguments.

Hank
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That is what it comes down to for most CTists.

You have individuals with absolutely -0- credentials in any discipline involved with the situation in hand spouting off in one type media or another that then end up being cited by other unqualified individuals as having "proof" of conspiracy.

In this thread, the poster with no qualifications and only a very recent interest in the subject matter believes that in rehashing settled issues they bring insight to the table - they don't - they misunderstand physics and assert they're correct - they repeat the same old white noise and expect to be taken seriously.

There's another thread on ISF where a poster holds the all-time record for self contradictory posts, but our guy here is running a close second.

One post, the rifle is immaterial, another, the rifle can't have been used. Cite a false claim cribbed from another CTist that is refuted, reject the source that refutes the false claim. He literally makes it up as he goes along in not just opinion but in science and documented history.

All par for the course in CTlandia.
 
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BStrong said:
I don't know Finck, and I have no idea what he saw or how he may have interpreted what he saw, but I have a certain amount of sympathy for him due to his involvement with Garrison.

He was sucked into that vortex of ******** and I'm sure it wasn't pleasant.

I've posted my opinion several times in this thread about why Secret Service, Kennedy aides et al did not allow much involvement w/ Texas doctors/LE etc. after JFK was pronounced dead.

They were through with the whole state at that point and they were taking Jack home, period.

No conspiracy. No cast of grand villains. A group of humans that lost their Husband/Brother/Father/Leader in an area they felt little or no connection to watched that man die because someone in Texas wanted him dead.

Those folks behaved in a very normal, understandable fashion.

They took their dead home, and any Texan of any rank of office that stood in their way was going to be ignored. I doubt it would come to bloodshed if the Texas authorities tried to insist, but I'm sure it would have gotten uglier than it already was.

That's my take.
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So you tend to think the entry wound was high at the depressed cowlick fracture, yet you have no explanation for why that concept is utterly incompatible with the statements of the professionals who performed the autopsy. You can't even suggest a reason how Dr. Finck could have seen the depressed cowlick fracture if that part of the skull was almost certainly removed by the time he arrived.
 
HSienzant said:
A drawing of an autopsy photo.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

Hank
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Well It shows the same exact thing as this version, as printed in David Mantik's article.

]
jFUtRoc.jpg


So your favorite location for the entry wound is still high above the ears at the cowlick? How could you think that in good conscious?
 
HSienzant said:
Who determined the initials are not scratched thereon? A conspiracy theorist. But Elmer Todd examined the bullet, and found his initials on it. (last paragraph on the right side of page): http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0215b.htm

So who do I believe? The agent who actually found his initials on the bullet, or the conspiracy theorist who claims they aren't there, but doesn't show the whole bullet and doesn't establish what Todd's initials look like on other items? (As he notes, Courtland Cunningham used a mark that didn't consist of his initials "CC", and he doesn't begin to establish what mark we should be looking for on the bullet for Elmer Todd's mark). So how can you say Todd's mark isn't on the bullet?
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I find it crazy to think that nobody has examined CE399 to find any trace for the missing initials (I don't think anybody has ever tried pointing them out on the photographs). I understand that the initials are supposed to be on the bullet itself, scratched with a diamond pen, and not just an envelope. I gotta say, if there was ever a new "investigation" of the Kennedy forensic evidence, a lot of the issues can be solved with very little cost. What would you need to settle that, a microscope?
 
MicahJava said:
So you tend to think the entry wound was high at the depressed cowlick fracture, yet you have no explanation for why that concept is utterly incompatible with the statements of the professionals who performed the autopsy. You can't even suggest a reason how Dr. Finck could have seen the depressed cowlick fracture if that part of the skull was almost certainly removed by the time he arrived.
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You love speculation.

I have a nodding acquaintance with it but it hasn't exactly worked out like I had hoped.

He's got a pov, other folks have a pov and JFK and LHO ain't coming back from the dead.

The preponderance of the evidence shows that LHO murdered JFK and DPD officer J.D. Tippit.

All the hand wringing and speculation that you can muster is not going to change that fact. Being ignorant of the actual facts and science involved is not a virtue. You can invent semi-new twists on old ******** evidence that was promoted by other, earlier CTists and it's still nothing new. You can invent supposed evidence to support your fantasy and it's not going to change things. You can invent mechanical devices that do not exist and it's not going to change anything. You can fumble through a fantasy version of terminal ballistics 101 and it's not going to change anything.

I know it's all new to you, but your song and dance is as old as the black and white TV's we watched Jack Ruby shoot LHO on.
 
MicahJava said:
I find it crazy to think that nobody has examined CE399 to find any trace for the missing initials (I don't think anybody has ever tried pointing them out on the photographs). I understand that the initials are supposed to be on the bullet itself, scratched with a diamond pen, and not just an envelope. I gotta say, if there was ever a new "investigation" of the Kennedy forensic evidence, a lot of the issues can be solved with very little cost. What would you need to settle that, a microscope?
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I need not disprove anyone's claims about the absence of initials on the bullet. That's a shifting of the burden of proof. If you want to claim Todd's initials are not on the bullet, it's on you to prove it.

We're still waiting for that proof.

As I pointed out, and you ignored, Elmer Todd did say he found where he had marked CE399, identifying it as the bullet he received. And the critics, like yourself, show no mark of Todd on anything else, so you don't even know what Todd's mark looks like, so to say Todd's mark is not on CE399 is a stretch, since you don't even know what you're looking for.

Hank
 
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BStrong said:
I know it's all new to you, but your song and dance is as old as the black and white TV's we watched Jack Ruby shoot LHO on.
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Yep new toy syndrome. I got bored with JFK when Posner's book came out that I believe was the last one I read on the subject.
 
MicahJava said:
Well It shows the same exact thing as this version, as printed in David Mantik's article.

][qimg]https://i.imgur.com/jFUtRoc.jpg[/qimg]


So your favorite location for the entry wound is still high above the ears at the cowlick? How could you think that in good conscious?
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Asked and answered the last few times you raised this issue. No matter how many times you tell us your speculations, it doesn't raise them to the level of evidence. No matter how many times you put words in my mouth, it doesn't make it my opinion.

Hank
 
BStrong said:
I know it's all new to you, but your song and dance is as old as the black and white TV's we watched Jack Ruby shoot LHO on.
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Bored with the same old song and dance?

There's new ones you may not have heard:

Some conspiracy theorists are now advancing the notion that Oswald pretended to be shot by Ruby.
http://oswaldinthedoorway.blogspot.com/2017/01/rob-caprio-has-been-active-jfker-for.html

Others think James Bookhout, FBI agent, shot Oswald, and Ruby was switched for Bookhout later.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/1...lations-reveal-the-true-shooter-of-oswald/25/

Yes, there is truly a different scenario for every conspiracy theorist in the world.

Hank
 
HSienzant said:
Asked and answered the last few times you raised this issue. No matter how many times you tell us your speculations, it doesn't raise them to the level of evidence. No matter how many times you put words in my mouth, it doesn't make it my opinion.

Hank
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You never answered anything. I think you know the cranial opening was too big to accommodate the cowlick fracture.
 
MicahJava said:
No matter how many times you tell us your speculations, it doesn't raise them to the level of evidence. I think you know the cranial opening was too big to accommodate the cowlick fracture.
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Hilarious. What part of "No matter how many times you put words in my mouth, it doesn't make it my opinion" did you not comprehend?

And how come you're still laboring under the impression that what you think or speculate matters?

I've already told you speculation doesn't count here. Neither does personal opinion. Build your case from the evidence, or admit you cannot. You cannot, you just refuse to admit it.

Moreover, you've already admitted you're not interested in a resolution of this case in any form. Given links to Simmons testimony, you refused to read it, calling it 'boring', and made up false answers to the questions you had asked that could have been found in Simmons testimony.

Why should anyone waste time on your arguments, given that display?

Hank

Hank
 
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No Other said:
I am only asking for a clarification... Do you mean circumstantial evidence?
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Does a revolver pulled from his hand matching the shells found at the scene of the Tippit murder (to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world) count as circumstantial evidence?

Do two large fragments found in the limousine the evening of the assassination matching his rifle (to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world) count as circumstantial evidence?

Do eyewitnesses picking him out of lineups as the person they saw fleeing the scene of the Tippit killing count as circumstantial evidence?

http://legallyliterate.com/judge-dismiss-case-based-solely-on-circumstantial-evidence/


Hank
 
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