The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 24

[TruthCalls]

I'm sorry. I don't care how good the sex might be, but I'm going to get the hell away from my crazy new American girlfriend when she suggests we kill her roommate.

Again, Vixen claims Meredith snubbed Amanda when in reality Meredith simply planned an evening with friends. Vixen apparently thinks Meredith had an obligation to spend every evening with Amanda and if she didn't then it was because she was snubbing her.

Vixen claims Raffaele originally told the police he came home alone and Amanda shows up at 1AM. Truth is, Raffaele told the police numerous times he spent the evening with Amanda and only told this different story after being pressured and confused during an interrogation. Raffaele asked for a calendar and was refused. I wonder what fanciful reason Vixen would offer for the police to deny him one?

Again, Vixen tries to connect a passing offer from Lumumba for Meredith to come in and make her mojito's and Lumumba informing Amanda not to bother coming to work because there was no business that night into a motive for murder. If anyone needs an example of the desperation of a guilter they need not look any further than this.

Vixen is not and never has been interested in understanding this case. She is also not much into being truthful and honest. Vixen will say anything, interpret things in any fashion, so long as it works with her obsession against Amanda.

There was no motive, there was no behavioral traits, there was no history of violence. Much to Vixen's chagrin, testimony from those who were with them daily said the relationship between Amanda and Meredith was normal, it was good. They certainly did a lot of things together, though Vixen likes to close her eyes and hum when examples of this are mentioned. Two people, completely enamored with one another and finding themselves free for the evening are not going to run off and murder a friend and roommate for no reason. Vixen knows this but to acknowledge this would mean to admit it didn't happen and that is never going to happen. Consequently she must continue her embarrassing crusade against Amanda, lying and fantasizing along the way. Honestly, it has really gotten boring for me. No matter how many times you call her out on a lie, she will eventually come back to it because that is all she has.

Justice would truly be served if Guede was serving a 30 year sentence, but I get some solace in the exoneration of Amanda and Raffaele. Once the ECHR rules against Italy on the calunia conviction the redemption will be complete. Oh, and I guess I get a little satisfaction being able to rub all of this in the faces of the few remaining PGP out there who continue to libel them.

 

[abaddon]

They examined phone and computer logs in minute intricate detail.

Logs from where exactly?

And I promise you, they had ZERO desire to frame anybody or make up data.

I have experience in criminal court as an expert witness. I have submitted logs, records and so forth under oath.

Would you make up data, if asked to help with a crime? Of course not. A professional has an obligation to be objective.

How naive. Sure, I have an alphabet soup of letters after my name. Sure, I signed on to a code of ethics at the institute. Sure, I do my level best to live up to that commitment. That's just super.

Nevertheless, your claim that purely by dint of doing so means that I am a "professional" and my word cannot be questioned. Not here, not in a court of law, nowhere. Do you not see the obvious problem with that?

 

[Vixen]

So Knox gets a text from Patrik at about 20.40 when she is out and about, then has to get back to Sollecito's in order to open the door to Popovic at 20.40. Persuade Sollecito to participate in a murder so that he turns his phone off at 20.42. Some how get in touch with Guede without using a phone (switched off by then!). Get over to the piazza to be seen by Curatalo at 21.30 then get Kercher's phones dumped by 22.14. Presumably in amongst all this she has to make out with Sollecito, participate in a sex game, steal money, have a row, provoke Guede in to attacking Kercher...

Knox has the most amazing powers persuasion if she can do this in the few minutes available.

Remembering of course until 20.40 Knox thought she was working and Sollecito driving Popovic to pick up a parcel later that evening.

Amanda received and replied to the text within the vicinity of the cottage. It is literally a few minutes walk from Raff's apartment, so not at all 'somehow get over to Raff's'. Popovic was estimating the time, based on how far her medical school class was away from Raff's. No-one knows what time the phones were dumped. The first signal after the one at 22:14 at the cottage was circa 00:07, in the grounds where it was found.

Raff wouldn't need persuading, I dare say he discussed his fetish for knives, violent manga and his idolisation of the Monster of Folgio a few times. He revels in his dark side. (cf his FB postings, memories business, etc).

Why would she need a phone 'to get in touch with Rudy'. He was in town that day as well. No doubt they met either in town or, as per Amanda's own confession (re 'Patrick', which Marasca rules is a cover up for Rudy) they met near the cottage. It really is literally just around the corner to the kebap shop Rudy went to wait at until someone arrived home.

 

[Vixen]

This is so silly.

You contradict yourself almost right away. Clearly if they turned off their phones at Raffaele's apartment to evade being tracked to the cottage and they brought weapons with them then the premeditation is not seconds.

Two, almost strangers are not going to cover for each other? Seriously? They would fold like a cheap suit.

Three, still doesn’t address Amanda trying to persuade not one but two almost strangers to kill Meredith. Imagine Amanda sitting with her new boyfriend of just a week watching the sweet romantic comedy Amélie right after Ms Popovic leaves. How does she even suggest to this boy who hardly speaks her language that he should go back to the cottage and kill her roommate. Personally, I can't see it. I can't imagine her asking or him saying yes. It would take a massive amount of trust for both of them.

Four, they don't know where Meredith is or if/when she might return.
Five, they already have plans to go to Gubbio in the morning.
Six, Raffaele doesn’t know Rudy and Amanda is not known to have said much more then hello to him. And they're not in contact with Rudy. How do they get this almost total stranger to take a very active role in the murder?

I'm sorry Vixen, I think your imagination has run away with you. I don't see it.

It has been shown time and time again that accomplices do cover up for each other - it's called 'Prisoners Dilemma'. Even Marasca understood that.

Amélie had been downloaded by Raff days before. There is nothing to prove they actually sat there watching it. Amélie is a total red herring. No doubt the pair thought it hilarious to have an innocuous sickly sweet film as their alibi.

Amanda herself says she and Raff spoke long into the day about his late-mother, his drug taking, his fetish for violent manga, his collection of knives.

No doubt it was all a fantasy come true for Raff. None of them have ever shown any remorse. In fact, sickenly, the pair tour the country giving 'talks' about the terrible injustice of their being arrested.

 

[Vixen]

So are you saying Curatalo recognised Knox but confused Guede and Sollecito? So Knox was with Guede at 20.40 persuaded him to participate in a murder, rushed back to see Popovic at 20.40 then persuaded Sollecito to participate in a murder so he turned off his phone at 20.42? So just a few seconds?

Are you back to claiming Rudy was there at 8:30 and was still there at the cottage almost two hours later until at least 22:14 - the last signal from Mez' phone from the cottage.

I'll get into my listening pose while you explain this.

 

[Vixen]

I'm sorry. I don't care how good the sex might be, but I'm going to get the hell away from my crazy new American girlfriend when she suggests we kill her roommate.

There are plenty of case where the girl's boyfriend kills persons completely or almost unknown to him at the behest of his girl friend. Look up De Nardo, Erin Caffey, the Spalding Edwards murder. In fact the Edwards murder in Spalding has a lot of parallels with the Kercher one IMV. They discussed their plans in McDonalds the day before, and carefully planned it whilst walking along a river bank.

Having got her boyfriend to kill her mother and sister, the pair then lugged a mattress downstairs (as she could not bear the smell of her 11-year old sister's blood) to have sex, watch 'Twilight' and eat ice-cream.

It certainly is not impossible.

 

[Vixen]

Logs from where exactly?

I have experience in criminal court as an expert witness. I have submitted logs, records and so forth under oath.

How naive. Sure, I have an alphabet soup of letters after my name. Sure, I signed on to a code of ethics at the institute. Sure, I do my level best to live up to that commitment. That's just super.

Nevertheless, your claim that purely by dint of doing so means that I am a "professional" and my word cannot be questioned. Not here, not in a court of law, nowhere. Do you not see the obvious problem with that?

Of course, it would only ever be your 'expert opinion' and you are open to being cross-examined. Even then, there will be an expert testifying for the other side. The court has to weigh up whose opinion they prefer.

The point I was making is, do you think it likely that the entire Italian police force and forensic experts were lying because they wanted to frame the kids 'to please Mignini'?

In fact, on the contrary, having the protection of professional status means you are allowed to be objective and refuse to by swayed by any undue influence (the duty of integrity: safeguard against familiarity and intimidation).

 

[acbytesla]

There are plenty of case where the girl's boyfriend kills persons completely or almost unknown to him at the behest of his girl friend. Look up De Nardo, Erin Caffey, the Spalding Edwards murder. In fact the Edwards murder in Spalding has a lot of parallels with the Kercher one IMV. They discussed their plans in McDonalds the day before, and carefully planned it whilst walking along a river bank.

Having got her boyfriend to kill her mother and sister, the pair then lugged a mattress downstairs (as she could not bear the smell of her 11-year old sister's blood) to have sex, watch 'Twilight' and eat ice-cream.

It certainly is not impossible.

You're comparing 2 14 year old kooks who had known each other for awhile to 2 twenty something college educated highly successful students neither who had command of the other's language who had known each other for a week? Get serious.

 

[abaddon]

Of course, it would only ever be your 'expert opinion' and you are open to being cross-examined. Even then, there will be an expert testifying for the other side. The court has to weigh up whose opinion they prefer.

Are you now accepting that "professional" testimony is subject to scrutiny?

The point I was making is, do you think it likely that the entire Italian police force and forensic experts were lying because they wanted to frame the kids 'to please Mignini'?

Are you now claiming that the entire Italian police force investigated AK?

In fact, on the contrary, having the protection of professional status means you are allowed to be objective and refuse to by swayed by any undue influence (the duty of integrity: safeguard against familiarity and intimidation).

Are you claiming that no "professional" ever makes an error, or commits perjury?

 

[Vixen]

You're comparing 2 14 year old kooks who had known each other for awhile to 2 twenty something college educated highly successful students neither who had command of the other's language who had known each other for a week? Get serious.

Have you ever examined your double standards in this? You can very easily believe that Rudy who was a complete stranger to Mez 'did it all by himself' yet for Amanda and Raff it is impossible.

Rudy's friends all testified he was a normal guy. Had a wide circle of friends. No doubt he was gladly at the cottage at Amanda's invitation as he is the type who hates to be alone.

Cetainly I can see no reason why Rudy would bother to hang around to stage a burglary and clean up, but every reason why the kids would, and did, according to even Marasca.

 

[Vixen]

Are you now accepting that "professional" testimony is subject to scrutiny?

Are you now claiming that the entire Italian police force investigated AK?

Are you claiming that no "professional" ever makes an error, or commits perjury?

No, I am saying, 'Do you think it reasonable the PIP believes the entire Italian legal system, together with the forensic police, telecommunications expert, footprints expert, DNA experts, pathologists, etc were all conspiring to 'railroad the American girl'?

 

[abaddon]

No, I am saying, 'Do you think it reasonable the PIP believes the entire Italian legal system, together with the forensic police, telecommunications expert, footprints expert, DNA experts, pathologists, etc were all conspiring to 'railroad the American girl'?

Nope. You are proposing that, not me. You flat out stated that the entire Italian police force was in on your game.

The point I was making is, do you think it likely that the entire Italian police force and forensic experts were lying because they wanted to frame the kids 'to please Mignini'?

And your answer is NO. The vast majority of the Italian police force neither knew nor cared.

 

[bagels]

No, I am saying, 'Do you think it reasonable the PIP believes the entire Italian legal system, together with the forensic police, telecommunications expert, footprints expert, DNA experts, pathologists, etc were all conspiring to 'railroad the American girl'?

No more than the US authorities were conspiring to railroad David Camm. The only difference in this case is the US has a more sophisticated appellate court with more sophisticated judges, although it is not flawless. If you read the overturning court's ruling there was a lone dissenting judge ready to send Camm, who had a half dozen eyewitness alibis, to prison for life for a crime clearly committed by a violent serial sex predator named Charles Boney.

**** happen as they say.

 

[acbytesla]

Have you ever examined your double standards in this? You can very easily believe that Rudy who was a complete stranger to Mez 'did it all by himself' yet for Amanda and Raff it is impossible.

Rudy's friends all testified he was a normal guy. Had a wide circle of friends. No doubt he was gladly at the cottage at Amanda's invitation as he is the type who hates to be alone.

Cetainly I can see no reason why Rudy would bother to hang around to stage a burglary and clean up, but every reason why the kids would, and did, according to even Marasca.

Rudy was arrested only days before inside the nursery with a laptop that was stolen in a burglary that had just happened very close to Rudy's apartment. That's two break-ins only days earlier that Rudy is connected to. Never mind Tremantono and his neighbor Ms. Mandu Diaz which would make 4. I have every reason to believe the burglary was real and not staged. Rudy is the only one captured on the CCTV camera across from the cottage before the murder.

Those are Rudy's shoeprints in Meredith's blood.
That is Rudy's DNA inside Meredith's vagina.
That is Rudy's palm print in Meredith's blood.
And Rudy admits being there during the murder but telling the most ridiculous story about what happened.

You know all this so you know there is no double standard.

 

[acbytesla]

No, I am saying, 'Do you think it reasonable the PIP believes the entire Italian legal system, together with the forensic police, telecommunications expert, footprints expert, DNA experts, pathologists, etc were all conspiring to 'railroad the American girl'?

Yes. It has happened many times all over the world. This is why we have the Innocence Project.

 

[Vixen]

No more than the US authorities were conspiring to railroad David Camm. The only difference in this case is the US has a more sophisticated appellate court with more sophisticated judges, although it is not flawless. If you read the overturning court's ruling there was a lone dissenting judge ready to send Camm, who had a half dozen eyewitness alibis, to prison for life for a crime clearly committed by a violent serial sex predator named Charles Boney.

**** happen as they say.

Seriously? Italy has been around a great deal longer than the USA (maybe not as a country called 'Italy' per se, but where do you think Roman Law comes from?).

If any system is 'sophisticated', it is the Italian one. The UK one is a crude Anglo-Saxon: hearing verdict that's it.

Now there is a lot to be said for in-your-face anglo-saxonism. It's short sharp and to the point.

However, there is no way you can call the French and the other Latin countries 'unsophisticated' compared to the inventors of the world's worst swear words and almost zero written history.

 

[Vixen]

Rudy was arrested only days before inside the nursery with a laptop that was stolen in a burglary that had just happened very close to Rudy's apartment. That's two break-ins only days earlier that Rudy is connected to. Never mind Tremantono and his neighbor Ms. Mandu Diaz which would make 4. I have every reason to believe the burglary was real and not staged. Rudy is the only one captured on the CCTV camera across from the cottage before the murder.

Those are Rudy's shoeprints in Meredith's blood.
That is Rudy's DNA inside Meredith's vagina.
That is Rudy's palm print in Meredith's blood.
And Rudy admits being there during the murder but telling the most ridiculous story about what happened.

You know all this so you know there is no double standard.

Next question: so why did Amanda cover up for Rudy?

 

[bagels]

Seriously? Italy has been around a great deal longer than the USA (maybe not as a country called 'Italy' per se, but where do you think Roman Law comes from?).

If any system is 'sophisticated', it is the Italian one. The UK one is a crude Anglo-Saxon: hearing verdict that's it.

Now there is a lot to be said for in-your-face anglo-saxonism. It's short sharp and to the point.

However, there is no way you can call the French and the other Latin countries 'unsophisticated' compared to the inventors of the world's worst swear words and almost zero written history.

Counterpoint: http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_Nencini_Sentencing_Report_(English)

 

[acbytesla]

It has been shown time and time again that accomplices do cover up for each other - it's called 'Prisoners Dilemma'. Even Marasca understood that.

I'm well aware of what Prisoner's dilemma is but I still don't buy it.

Amélie had been downloaded by Raff days before. There is nothing to prove they actually sat there watching it. Amélie is a total red herring. No doubt the pair thought it hilarious to have an innocous sickly sweet film as their alibi.

Amanda herself says she and Raff spoke long into the day about his late-mother, his drug taking, his fetish for violent manga, his collection of knives.

No doubt it was all a fantasy come true for Raff. None of them have ever shown any remorse. In fact, sickenly, the pair tour the country giving 'talks' about the terrible injustice of their being arrested.

You can twist reality forever, but there is nothing unusual about two people sharing their interests and backgrounds with each other. That Raffaele had an interest in Manga and owned a couple of knives is hardly a sign that he was demented. Millions of people like Manga and I own more knives then Raffaele. You can say that all these little facts like watching Amélie were some attempt to deceive but that's only your theory which includes premeditation. An idea that ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THE JUDGES believe.

What we do know is Rudy was involved in the murder and that he isn't with Amanda or Rudy at 8:40 and up to that moment Raffaele has other plans. Raff had neighborly offered a ride that was no longer needed. We know that Amanda was going to be at work. There is no reason to believe that Meredith would even be at the cottage. And of course there is no known communication with Rudy.

What we see from Amanda and Raffaele is that they are kind serious students and zero evidence of anything else and nothing that ties them to this horrible crime. You can speculate that hidden from the whole world that they are crazies but there has NEVER been a shred of evidence before the murder or after that supports they are these psychotic antisocial human beings. In fact, the opposite seems to be evident.

 

[acbytesla]

Next question: so why did Amanda cover up for Rudy?

She didnt.