The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 24

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Oh dear lord, lying and misleading is becoming a habit with you.

Meredith did not snub Amanda, she replied back and said she already had dinner plans. She WAS allowed to make plans without inviting Amanda.

Amanda was completely infatuated with Raffaele. Giacomo wasn't a factor.

Lumumba told Amanda not to bother coming in because there was no business that night.

No indication of envy or resentment. No motive. Even the prosecution came up with better lame ideas than that.

The merits and the appeal court upheld that Amanda killed Mez, based on all the evidence heard before it.

Marasca, despite anulling the convictions, did not at any point say the pair were innocent.

Indeed it makes it clear: Amanda (and almost certainly, therefore, Raff) was at the scene of the murder .

The most recent judgment of the Florence Appeal Court, 22 Jan 2017, of Masi-Martuscelli in dismissing Raff's compensation claim, underlines it again:

It does appear clear, in the light of the judicial truth established in the acquittal ruling
concerning the indisputable presence of Knox in 7 Via della Pergola at the time of the
murder,
that if Sollecito had immediately said, without later changing his story, that the
young woman had been far away from him during that time, and if he had told in a
precise way the time at which she had arrived at his house and also her condition [11 ->]
at that time – presumably upset or even extremely distraught, his legal situation would
certainly have been different.

Florence 22 January 2017
Presiding Judge
Dr. Silvia Martuscelli
Reporting Judge
Dr. Paola MASI
Filed with Registry [the clerk of court] 10 February 2017
Antonio Bossa
Clerk


So what was Amanda doing at the murder scene with Rudy and why did she not report it, but indeed denied it and did cover up for Rudy, it was found by the court?

You cannot answer this question can you?
 
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You are the 'pollution' to this debate - claiming that Rudy is to blame for everything.

So the aborted connection to Abbey National becomes, 'That was Rudy trying out the bank bur forgot the country code'.

There is zero evidence it was anything of the sort.

We do know as a SCIENTIFIC FACT that both Amanda and Raff turned off their phones for the duration of the murder.

1. We don't know that as scientific fact. I'm not sure you know what that is. Just because a phone does not connect to the network does not mean that the phone is turned off.
Phones and the network don't actively ping each other. If you set your phone down and no outbound or inbound calls are made there is no need to connect to each other.
2. People's memories are often faulty.
3. A phone may simply not see the network and vice-versa.
4.Even if they may have turned off their phones it doesnt mean a damn thing.
 
You are the 'pollution' to this debate - claiming that Rudy is to blame for everything.

So the aborted connection to Abbey National becomes, 'That was Rudy trying out the bank but forgot the country code'.

There is zero evidence it was anything of the sort.

We do know as a SCIENTIFIC FACT that both Amanda and Raff turned off their phones for the duration of the murder.

The pollution? ? LMAO. LJ actually knows what he is talking about. You only think you do.
 
1. We don't know that as scientific fact. I'm not sure you know what that is. Just because a phone does not connect to the network does not mean that the phone is turned off.
Phones and the network don't actively ping each other. If you set your phone down and no outbound or inbound calls are made there is no need to connect to each other.
2. People's memories are often faulty.
3. A phone may simply not see the network and vice-versa.
4.Even if they may have turned off their phones it doesnt mean a damn thing.

Please do read Letterio Latalla's testimony for yourself, and let us know which parts you disagree with.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Letterio_Latella's_Testimony

It is not something that is unguessable or unfathomable. There are precise scientific instruments that can measure and monitor calls.
 
You are the 'pollution' to this debate - claiming that Rudy is to blame for everything.


Oh *********** hell. (And by the way, you're on very shaky ground calling "me" pollution to the debate, rather than my arguments/opinions. Be careful.)

Thing is, Vixen, it's all (tellingly) in your mind that you think I'm claiming that "Rudy is to blame for everything". But at this point, I'm not in the least bit surprised at that type of sophistry.

My actual position (read back to check if you like, since you seem woefully uninformed on the matter) is that 1) there is zero credible, reliable evidence that Knox or Sollecito participated in the murder in any way; 2) there is more than enough credible, reliable evidence to prove BARD that Guede was at the very least a major participant in the murder; 3) all of the credible, reliable evidence is in fact wholly consistent with Guede acting alone; 4) all of the credible, reliable evidence tends to support the notion that Knox and Sollecito spent that evening/night together alone in Sollecito's apartment (and at the same time, there's zero credible, reliable evidence that Knox went out early the following morning to visit Quintavalle's shop); 5) the most reasonable conclusion to draw, in th light of all of that, is that Guede probably committed this sex murder alone, and that Knox and Sollecito almost certainly had nothing to do with it.

So, please don't misrepresent my position again, Vixen. OK? OK.


So the aborted connection to Abbey National becomes, 'That was Rudy trying out the bank bur forgot the country code'.


Another grotesque misrepresentation of my position. Again, I'm hardly surprised, but it's still disgusting and dishonest "argumentation" on your part. For the record, once again, my position on the aborted connection to Abbey (and the 901 voicemail number - or are you ignorant of that event too....?) is that whoever was operating Kercher's phone at that point made a number of sequenced, deliberate button pushes over at least a 2-minute period, resulting in the known evidence of those two auto-aborted calls. My position is actually that whoever was holding the phone was in fact trying (unsuccessfully) to turn off the handset or place into mute mode. Nothing to do with "Rudy", or "trying out the bank" or "forgot the country code". Once again, despicable but unsurprising.



We do know as a SCIENTIFIC FACT that both Amanda and Raff turned off their phones for the duration of the murder.


Oh dear oh dear oh dear oh dear. Once again, your scientific illiteracy shines through. Actually, what we know as a SCIENTIFIC FACT is that neither Knox's nor Sollecito's phone was connected to their respective networks over that time period. You're stunningly unaware that this can happen for a whole variety of reasons - only one of which is the manual turning off of the handset itself.

Knox states that she turned off her phone once she responded to Lumumba's text allowing her the night off (which reasonable observers would regard as perfectly plausible - but not you of course....), but it's highly feasible that Sollecito's handset remained switched on but dropped the signal - Sollecito lived in the heart of Old Perugia, in a thick stone building surrounded by other thick stone buildings in very close proximity. If you knew anything at all about cellular network topography and electromagnetic signal propagation (which, based on all the evidence, you clearly don't), you'd know that the position, topography and construction of Sollecito's apartment building actually made it rather likely that any mobile phone placed within certain areas of his apartment would experience signal drop-outs (often lengthy ones).

But hey, no! Let's just go with the pejorative, scientifically ignorant and illiterate myth that the evidence PROVES that the evil Knox and Sollecito necessarily deliberately switched off their phones (since, y'see, they were planning a heinous attack on Mezza, and this was all part of their evil plan.....)
 
You are the 'pollution' to this debate - claiming that Rudy is to blame for everything.

So the aborted connection to Abbey National becomes, 'That was Rudy trying out the bank but forgot the country code'.

There is zero evidence it was anything of the sort.

We do know as a SCIENTIFIC FACT that both Amanda and Raff turned off their phones for the duration of the murder.

Still wrong. You really have no idea how cell networks actually operate, do you?
 
Still wrong. You really have no idea how cell networks actually operate, do you?


It's utterly pitiful. Most arguments are not borne of the sheer chutzpah (or the level of intellectual dishonesty) to come out on the offensive in arguments when they are not underpinned by any understanding whatsoever of the topic being discussed/debated....
 
Oh *********** hell. (And by the way, you're on very shaky ground calling "me" pollution to the debate, rather than my arguments/opinions. Be careful.)

Thing is, Vixen, it's all (tellingly) in your mind that you think I'm claiming that "Rudy is to blame for everything". But at this point, I'm not in the least bit surprised at that type of sophistry.

My actual position (read back to check if you like, since you seem woefully uninformed on the matter) is that 1) there is zero credible, reliable evidence that Knox or Sollecito participated in the murder in any way; 2) there is more than enough credible, reliable evidence to prove BARD that Guede was at the very least a major participant in the murder; 3) all of the credible, reliable evidence is in fact wholly consistent with Guede acting alone; 4) all of the credible, reliable evidence tends to support the notion that Knox and Sollecito spent that evening/night together alone in Sollecito's apartment (and at the same time, there's zero credible, reliable evidence that Knox went out early the following morning to visit Quintavalle's shop); 5) the most reasonable conclusion to draw, in th light of all of that, is that Guede probably committed this sex murder alone, and that Knox and Sollecito almost certainly had nothing to do with it.

So, please don't misrepresent my position again, Vixen. OK? OK.





Another grotesque misrepresentation of my position. Again, I'm hardly surprised, but it's still disgusting and dishonest "argumentation" on your part. For the record, once again, my position on the aborted connection to Abbey (and the 901 voicemail number - or are you ignorant of that event too....?) is that whoever was operating Kercher's phone at that point made a number of sequenced, deliberate button pushes over at least a 2-minute period, resulting in the known evidence of those two auto-aborted calls. My position is actually that whoever was holding the phone was in fact trying (unsuccessfully) to turn off the handset or place into mute mode. Nothing to do with "Rudy", or "trying out the bank" or "forgot the country code". Once again, despicable but unsurprising.






Oh dear oh dear oh dear oh dear. Once again, your scientific illiteracy shines through. Actually, what we know as a SCIENTIFIC FACT is that neither Knox's nor Sollecito's phone was connected to their respective networks over that time period. You're stunningly unaware that this can happen for a whole variety of reasons - only one of which is the manual turning off of the handset itself.

Knox states that she turned off her phone once she responded to Lumumba's text allowing her the night off (which reasonable observers would regard as perfectly plausible - but not you of course....), but it's highly feasible that Sollecito's handset remained switched on but dropped the signal - Sollecito lived in the heart of Old Perugia, in a thick stone building surrounded by other thick stone buildings in very close proximity. If you knew anything at all about cellular network topography and electromagnetic signal propagation (which, based on all the evidence, you clearly don't), you'd know that the position, topography and construction of Sollecito's apartment building actually made it rather likely that any mobile phone placed within certain areas of his apartment would experience signal drop-outs (often lengthy ones).

But hey, no! Let's just go with the pejorative, scientifically ignorant and illiterate myth that the evidence PROVES that the evil Knox and Sollecito necessarily deliberately switched off their phones (since, y'see, they were planning a heinous attack on Mezza, and this was all part of their evil plan.....)


Do have a read of expert Latella, old chap. He makes it clear that on the contrary, the signal to Raff's appartment was very strong.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Letterio_Latella's_Testimony


Stop twisting the facts to fit your innocence fraud agenda.

People are not stupid. They know when they are reading flannel.
 
LOL You, LoJo and Stacyhs all know for sure 'It was Rudy who did absolutely everything'.

Don't tell me, even Latella is in on the Great Conspiracy to Frame the Kids.


See my earlier post. I'm going to ask you again*: stop misrepresenting/distorting my position, Vixen. OK?


* Though I've made this request several times before within this thread now. It's called common decency and basic honesty, I suppose
 
Do have a read of expert Latella, old chap. He makes it clear that on the contrary, the signal to Raff's appartment was very strong.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Letterio_Latella's_Testimony


Stop twisting the facts to fit your innocence fraud agenda.

People are not stupid. They know when they are reading flannel.


Don't refer to me as "old chap" again. OK?

And DO point me to the section where Latella (the prosecution expert....) "makes it clear that the signal to within Raff's Sollecito's apartment was very strong".

Otherwise I refuse to believe your claim. OK?
 
It's utterly pitiful. Most arguments are not borne of the sheer chutzpah (or the level of intellectual dishonesty) to come out on the offensive in arguments when they are not underpinned by any understanding whatsoever of the topic being discussed/debated....

Let me know which part of Latella's testimony you consider 'intellectually dishonest'

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Letterio_Latella's_Testimony

All you have is the logical fallacy of ad hominem.

Can't dispute the evidence - so make personal attacks instead.
 
Oh right. 'Don't do as I do, do as I say'.


We get it.



No. Not "Don't do as I do, do as I say", Vixen.

Rather: "Stop misrepresenting/distorting my position or argument", Vixen

Can you see the difference between the two?

(How ironic - and nasty - it is that even your attempt to rebut this point was itself an attempt at misrepresentation...........)
 
Please do read Letterio Latalla's testimony for yourself, and let us know which parts you disagree with.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Letterio_Latella's_Testimony

It is not something that is unguessable or unfathomable. There are precise scientific instruments that can measure and monitor calls.

You simply don't know what you're talking about. As usual.

I read her testimony as well as Dr. Pellero's. It doesn't change the simple fact that a phone DOES NOT HAVE to be turned off to not be in communication to the network. And from the network's perspective they are the same thing.
 
Don't refer to me as "old chap" again. OK?

And DO point me to the section where Latella (the prosecution expert....) "makes it clear that the signal to within Raff's Sollecito's apartment was very strong".

Otherwise I refuse to believe your claim. OK?

Haven't done your homework, then? You just made up some drivel about 'parts of Raff's apartment were sheilded from phone signals and that's why it looks like he had his phone off'.

Latella establishes (a) Raff turned off his phone and it then remained in the same position he left it until he turned it back on. and (b) that the signals to Raff's apartment were powerful.

Who should we believe, you or the expert?

But usually near the home of Sollecito arrive with a very powerful signal as well, as we saw the cell of Via Berardi, two other cells, we have also seen from the analysis of the printout that normally urge him in the evenings when it is received on other days, not in that because the phone is idle, but the previous evening he gets up late and calls are handled by that cell of Via Berardi, so there is no reason that that cell that night does not deliver the message, to unless the phone had some problems, just off or broke, whatever.
We have also verified that there was some problem in the cell or cells that served that area because to fetch, say capture, always on the orders of the Magistrate, acquire printouts of individual utilities have also gained global traffic cell. That is, all cells that covered the territories and interesting places we asked the manager what were those cells and asked the traffic of those cells, by all night. We have seen that the cell of Via Benardi functioned normally because many phones have carried engaging conversations to that cell, that like the others that served that area, so the network was working properly. In the days before the quell'abitazione that cell signal came, the blackout there was only one short night, so technically there we explain it except with probably one of the phone on or off.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Letterio_Latella's_Testimony

Who is 'intellectually dishonest'?
 
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You simply don't know what you're talking about. As usual.

I read her testimony as well as Dr. Pellero's. It doesn't change the simple fact that a phone DOES NOT HAVE to be turned off to not be in communication to the network. And from the network's perspective they are the same thing.


It's a well-worn tactic used within intellectually-dishonest "arguments" to point at nebulous, extremely lengthy pieces of writing (if they're in a foreign language, so much the better!), and claiming: "all the evidence to support my case is in that link! There ya go! Case closed!".

Honest arguments source/reference supporting evidence with links to precise passages which clearly tend to support the claim. But of course that's not what we're dealing with here.........
 
Evidence isn't about statistics and pattern matching. If it was everyone that breathed oxygen would be guilty of murder (since all murderers breathe oxygen).

AK and RS turning off their phones at a time that appears to roughly correspond to the alleged timespan of the crime isn't a relevant piece of evidence by itself in the void. Anglolawyer used to give a good example of interpreting evidence. He reasoned that evidence is like radiation left over by the actual process of actually committing the crime.

It's easier to just quote him:

anglolawyer said:
circumstantial evidence ... should all point to just one thing. Only one thing that actually happened. The Thing That Actually Happened gave off evidence like radiation and the sensors detecting it should be able to describe its path through space time accurately.

The cell phones being switched off means nothing in and of itself. It has to be part of a broader scope of the crime. It would have to connect with a theory of pre-meditation. Otherwise they are retroactively turning off their cell phone after a spontaneous decision to commit a crime, violating the laws of causality.

anglolawyer said:
What we have instead is a mėlange of inconsistent and irreconcilable junk that cannot be made to fit no matter how hard you try. That there are many out there, including Italian judges, willing to make fools of themselves in the attempt doesn't alter the fact.

Constructing a premeditation theory of the crime doesn't work, because AK and RS had existing plans that were only cancelled at the last moment, and had no means of coordinating with Rudy whom they did not know nor know if he would even be available that night or when. This is why the prosecution and courts never described a premeditated event. Working the phones into the surrounding circumstantial evidence takes you on a jumbled path that leads nowhere. Of course, the police originally conceived of a premeditated crime due to their suspect Patrick and his communication and agreed meeting with Amanda, but Patrick being removed from the picture killed that theory and really should have killed AKs involvement along with Patrick's... (but I digress).

I used to think the PGP were just bad at understanding how evidence works and relying on simple pattern matching (the flawed reasoning that if other cases have X, and this case has X, then this case is like other cases). But I came to realize it's not necessarily the case. They already know Amanda is guilty as a starting axiom. The evidence is simply splattered at random post-hoc.
 
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