Cont: President Trump: Part 3

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Argumemnon said:
Possibly. Gee, I guess I'll vote left from now on.
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Do you think it makes sense to conclude that the only people who could possibly be offended by that are people that self-identify as elitist snobs? I mean, seriously, if you're *not* an elitist snob, there's nothing at all offensive in there, right? Especially because I went on to say that we should try to find common ground with the non-elitist-snobs out there.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Do you think it makes sense to conclude that the only people who could possibly be offended by that are people that self-identify as elitist snobs?
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Nope, but then I never made that argument.

I mean, seriously, if you're *not* an elitist snob, there's nothing at all offensive in there, right?
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Logically? Right.

Captain_Swoop said:
No one cares!
Can't the two of you clear off to your own thread?
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Either get into the fun or get out!!
 
Argumemnon said:
You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you seem to love bringing up racism to shame people into seeing your point of view, which is getting quite tiresome.
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It's also quite ironic, given the pearl clutching attitudes on display when someone dared say something mean about those lovable racists! I say, if you insult a racist, you have insulted half the country, and that will not fly around here! No sir, we must defend the honor of those poor, downtrodden racists!
 
Argumemnon said:
You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you seem to love bringing up racism to shame people into seeing your point of view, which is getting quite tiresome.
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I don't intend it to shame people. I apologize if it comes across that way. I bring it up because I'm quite confident that nearly everyone would be appalled by a racist sentiment being expressed in such a way, and would be able to immediately identify it as highly offensive and unmerited.

If you take the exact same sentiment and couch it in terms of some other topic, the exact same people that would be offended by racist sentiment don't find it at all offensive.

For example... justifying wage and career differences based on race as being somehow natural or the result of choices made by black people is simply not acceptable. Casting aside a chunk of US citizens as completely horrible and morally repugnant based on their race is clearly a vapid argument and the lack of integrity and reason in the argument is easy to identify.

It is a device which is intended to overcome ones own perception and see the flaws in the argument itself.
 
wareyin said:
It's also quite ironic, given the pearl clutching attitudes on display when someone dared say something mean about those lovable racists! I say, if you insult a racist, you have insulted half the country, and that will not fly around here! No sir, we must defend the honor of those poor, downtrodden racists!
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Grr. I don't care if you offend actual racists. That's different from assuming that a large swath of "those people" are racists, and then insulting them for being racist whether they actually are or not. How can you not see that?
 
Emily's Cat said:
Grr. I don't care if you offend actual racists. That's different from assuming that a large swath of "those people" are racists, and then insulting them for being racist whether they actually are or not. How can you not see that?
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Hold the phone. You already provided a poll which showed that 50% of those people were racists, so you know there was no assumption there!
 
This just in.... Straight from the Justice Dept.

ETA: Links to a post on the same. Direct link.

... contents of accounts at Yahoo, Google and other webmail providers, including accounts of Russian journalists, U.S. and Russian government officials and private-sector employees of financial, transportation and other companies.... The criminal conduct at issue, carried out and otherwise facilitated by officers from an FSB unit that serves as the FBI’s point of contact in Moscow on cybercrime matters, is beyond the pale,” said Acting Assistant Attorney General McCord.
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Emily's Cat said:
For example... justifying wage and career differences based on race as being somehow natural or the result of choices made by black people is simply not acceptable.
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Why not? If, entirely hypothetically, black people in general chose poorly-paid jobs and took time off more often than whites, why wouldn't that, at least in part, justify the differences?
 
Emily's Cat said:
:rolleyes:

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of democrat supporters into what I call the basket of arrogance. Right?

The condescending, elitist, holier-than-though -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. Now, some of those folks -- they are unable to be set their egos aside, but thankfully they are not America. But the other basket -- and I know this because I have friends like this -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the uneducated have let them down, the ignorant people have let them down, nobody cares about their better judgement and education, and they just want to be heard. It doesn't really even matter who is listening. They don't think they know everything, but they hold out some hope that someone will value their insight. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.
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:thumbsup:
 
NoahFence said:
Yikes.

Is that somehow connected to Trump?
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Sorry, thought the implication was clearer. Yes, it is, in that a pattern of behavior is emerging validating or strengthening the case for other forms of interference. The direct betrayal in bold is an indication, as a statement made by a ranking official, of a turn in events marking a realization that there is a very serious and broad effort in play, and by the Russian government. It is a quite a bit harder now to use the CIA Wikileak to suggest the CIA hacked Trump disguised as Russians, and it is now factually not imaginary to state the the Putin government is strikingly untrustworthy and acting contrary to US govt interests.
 
wareyin said:
Hold the phone. You already provided a poll which showed that 50% of those people were racists, so you know there was no assumption there!
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Two things:

1) No, I didn't.

50% of the people said they believed that black people are more likely to be criminals than white people. Does that necessarily equate to racism in your book?

Bear in mind that there is unarguably a larger proportion of black people in jail and with criminal records than there are white people. So without having actively investigated disparities in our criminal justice system, it is apparent that there is a higher likelihood of a black person being a criminal. The questions asked didn't address whether the system was fair or flawed, or whether people felt it was justified. It asked whether black people were more likely to be criminals or more likely to be violent.

2) Offending an actual racist is a direct and personal thing. If you know a person that is actually a racist, by all means tear into them. Don't tear into an unspecified and monolithically vague group of unnamed people that you're assuming are racists.
 
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Argumemnon said:
Why not? If, entirely hypothetically, black people in general chose poorly-paid jobs and took time off more often than whites, why wouldn't that, at least in part, justify the differences?
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Because it's extraordinarily unlikely that there's something specifically "blackish" that makes black people prefer different careers. It's much more likely that there's a social pressure and bias that makes them perceive certain careers as ones in which they, as a black person, are more likely to be successful against their white counterparts.
 
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