Cont: Proof of Immortality, V for Very long discussion

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Jabba said:
- For the same reason that the likelihood that the top card in a freshly shuffled deck of cards would be a 3 of hearts is one over 52...
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But what about all the potential cards? How many cards have ever existed? How many might have been printed? According to yourself, you have to factor those in.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
But what about all the potential cards? How many cards have ever existed? How many might have been printed? According to yourself, you have to factor those in.

Hans
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That's a good point. According to Jabba's reasoning, the likelihood of drawing a particular card from a deck of 52 is either 1/infinity or 52/infinity.
 
godless dave said:
That's a good point. According to Jabba's reasoning, the likelihood of drawing a particular card from a deck of 52 is either 1/infinity or 52/infinity.
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Jabba has his analogies backwards.


Drawing a particular card ever is 1/inf. because an infinite number of cards could exist. Thus, if a card exists, there have to only be a finite number of cards. Similarly, if a person exists, there must only be a finite number of souls. And then, somehow, immortality.


Of course, Jabba may try to differentiate by saying that two identical cards are identical but two identical people have different selves. That does nothing other than assume his conclusion which is illogical.

One way or another, by likening 1/inf. to 1/52, he has made a convincing argument that he has no idea what he's talking about.
 
Jabba said:
-What were the odds, back at the big bang, of you existing now?
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What were the odds, back at the big bang, that you would exist now AND that the soul designed to inhabit your body would be simultaneously created?

What were the odds, back at the big bang, that if you never came to exist, you wouldn't be asking this question?
 
Jabba you do understand that probability doesn't factor into something as evidence or proof after the event has already occurred, right?

It's like your trying to prove that Hillary Clinton won the last election because every single poll said she was the most likely to.
 
JoeBentley said:
Jabba you do understand that probability doesn't factor into something as evidence or proof after the event has already occurred, right?

It's like your trying to prove that Hillary Clinton won the last election because every single poll said she was the most likely to.
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Totally wrong. He's not trying to prove a counterfactual. He's taking the fact that he exists as a given, and trying to calculate the relative probabilities of two competing hypotheses, given that he exists. Sure, he's doing a bad job of that, but you have totally mischaracterized what he's attempting to do. So many bad counterarguments are being thrown at him that you can hardly blame him for failing to recognize the good ones.
 
jt512 said:
Totally wrong. He's not trying to prove a counterfactual. He's taking the fact that he exists as a given, and trying to calculate the relative probabilities of two competing hypotheses, given that he exists. Sure, he's doing a bad job of that, but you have totally mischaracterized what he's attempting to do. So many bad counterarguments are being thrown at him that you can hardly blame him for failing to recognize the good ones.
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Because we've spent half a decade, 5 separate threads, and two different message boards running out of "good ones."

Your thread nannying is not warranted here. We've spent over 5 years throwing every possible argument we can at him and he is literally still stating his original statement without a single acknowledgement that he is even listening. Save your "tsk tsking" for him.
 
JoeBentley said:
Because we've spent half a decade, 5 separate threads, and two different message boards running out of "good ones."

Your thread nannying is not warranted here. We've spent over 5 years throwing every possible argument we can at him and he is literally still stating his original statement without a single acknowledgement that he is even listening. Save your "tsk tsking" for him.
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Sorry, but none of that justifies making invalid counterarguments (especially unwitting ones). In fact, even your claim here is incorrect. Bad arguments were proposed right and left from the very beginning.
 
Jabba said:
- Were they about 7 billion over infinity?
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Well, in the case of a current black rhino, it's about 4,000/infinity by your logic. In the case of an Aston Martin DBS volante, it's rather considerably less than that, ~1,000/infinity. Does this that the DBS volante is immortal?
 
Jabba said:
- Were they about 7 billion over infinity?
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Infinity is not a number. You can't divide by it. You can't put it in an equation with finite numbers any more than you could say 7 billion over banana..

There is a mathematics of infinite sets, but whatever you're doing isn't that.
 


Jabba: this is my PRS Ltd Edition Custom 22 Semi Hollow. PRS only made 150 of these! Imagine, only 150 out of an infinite number of potential custom 22 Semi Hollow guitars. And I have one! It must be immortal!
 
Jabba said:
- Were they about 7 billion over infinity?
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godless dave said:
I said it was larger than zero.
Also, the likelihood of everything else that ended up happening was a similarly small number.
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Dave,
- I'm trying to find out if you agree with my infinity claim. (I suppose I should have been more direct.) I don't think that you do -- but, I'm not sure.
 
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