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If not Hillary, who?

To sorta answer the OP, it wouldn't matter. Hillary didn't fail the Democratic electorate; the electorate failed Hillary. At this point it's quite clear that Hillary lost because too many Democratic voters stayed home, assuming she would win, and not wanting to otherwise violate their perceived purity by voting for someone who had actually gotten her hands dirty over decades of real-world politics. They drank from the right wing fever swamps and somehow assumed the worst of a lifelong public servant while downplaying the risk of a Trump win. Hopefully this is a stark lesson for future elections.
Or maybe it's the way that attitude comes across like anything less than unflinching obedience to whomever the party anoints marks one as being lumped in with the most vile criticism.

I can promise you that if you spent the election reading non-partisan biographies about Trump and Hillary you would not interpret my response as requiring "unflinching obedience." It's about assessing readily available evidence before forming opinions. And I firmly believe that, had the electorate assessed the readily available evidence, Trump would have lost in the largest landslide in the history of our nation.

And the party did not anoint Hillary. She won the popular vote. Convincingly.
 
Brought up ad nauseam and stipluated to ad nauseam.

What's the point of bringing it up yet again? Its just tedious.

Probably as support for the preceding sentence that you snipped: "And the party did not anoint Hillary." Because for some reason, people ignore how much the actual voters in the primaries wanted Clinton over Sanders, and keep repeating the myth of how the party "anointed" her.
 
"If not Hillary, who?"

Any male Democrat candidate. Trump actually lost the white vote compared to Romney (59% vs 58%). However, Trump did better among blacks and Hispanics than did Romney. Minority turnout for Clinton was weak. Given some of the comments Trump made about blacks and Mexicans, I think Trump's over-performing with them is due to a deep vein of misogyny that exists in minority communities. Against a male candidate, Trump would have done much worse with minorities, minority turnout for the Democratic candidate would have been higher, and Trump likely would have lost.
 
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Probably as support for the preceding sentence that you snipped: "And the party did not anoint Hillary." Because for some reason, people ignore how much the actual voters in the primaries wanted Clinton over Sanders, and keep repeating the myth of how the party "anointed" her.


The "anointed" issue goes back way before the 2016 primaries. Clinton couldn't even get through the primaries in 2008. There's no real doubt that the Democratic establishment and the Clinton machine expected Clinton to be next up. They never developed alternative candidates among younger Democratic governors, senators, congressmen and mayors. The 2016 DNC chair had been Clinton's 2008 campaign chairman. Clinton had more than 500 superdelegate votes before the first primary. Sanders never expected to do as well as he did, but he wanted to promote a more progressive agenda and he didn't want Clinton to coast to victory unopposed. Yet he came close to winning.

You can argue all you want about whether Clinton was treated unfairly by the media, by the "vast right-wing conspiracy," by whoever. But the fact is that the Democrats nominated a candidate who was under active FBI investigation, and that hung over her head through election day. No other Democrat would have traveled with her baggage. The Democrats gave us Trump.

And plenty of people called her "anointed," including Sanders.
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebat...ercome-media-consensus-around-hillary-clinton
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...s-hillary-clinton-anointment-democratic-party
 
The "anointed" issue goes back way before the 2016 primaries. Clinton couldn't even get through the primaries in 2008. There's no real doubt that the Democratic establishment and the Clinton machine expected Clinton to be next up. They never developed alternative candidates among younger Democratic governors, senators, congressmen and mayors. The 2016 DNC chair had been Clinton's 2008 campaign chairman. Clinton had more than 500 superdelegate votes before the first primary. Sanders never expected to do as well as he did, but he wanted to promote a more progressive agenda and he didn't want Clinton to coast to victory unopposed. Yet he came close to winning.

Hillary was very competitive during the 2008 primaries. Far more so than Bernie in 2016. She nearly won the popular vote, and just barely lost by delegates (e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2008_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries).

While Hillary has always been least popular during campaigns, she has nonetheless been competitive and usually successful. Moreover, she had been groomed for the presidency, having spent a life in public service from non-profits, to congress, to the highest echelons of foreign policy.

The DNC's job is to promote the election of Democratic candidates. Hillary was an obvious choice. Sanders was not even a Democrat. Obviously the Establishment wasn't going to back an unknown, non-Democrat for the Democratic Primaries. At least not at first. That's not some conspiracy. It's the DNC doing its job.

You can argue all you want about whether Clinton was treated unfairly by the media, by the "vast right-wing conspiracy," by whoever. But the fact is that the Democrats nominated a candidate who was under active FBI investigation, and that hung over her head through election day. No other Democrat would have traveled with her baggage. The Democrats gave us Trump.

The majority of Democratic voters saw the FBI investigation for what it was: Petty. They correctly predicted that it would end with no results of consequence. Which it did, just prior to the close of the primaries.

The majority of Democrats also accurately predicted that Hillary would be a perfect couter to Trump. Her calm, rational, nuanced, experienced approach would contrast well against Trump's unhinged, irrational, simplistic, amateurish boasting. And it did. Until the last-minute Comey letter, Hillary was absolutely trashing Trump in the polls.

The Comey letter was not predictable. It's timing was devastating, and it played directly into the dangerous narrative that Sanders chose to wage well after he was mathematically eliminated: That the Establishment Democrats were corrupt and that Hillary was just another corrupt Establishment politician. It was the combination of Sanders' toxic, anti-Democratic rhetoric and Comey's last-minute letter that elected Trump-- that, and the minority of the Democratic base that fell for both.


I don't care who called her anointed. She was not anointed. She was by far and away the most skilled, experienced, and qualified candidate in the Democratic Party and she was clearly ready and willing to build on and cement Obama's legacy. That's not being anointed. It's being prepared.

The Democratic Party should be the party of expertise, nuance, experience, and preparedness. Ultimately Hillary's loss is due to a very small fraction of the Democratic voter base so falling for populism over substance that they refused to vote or voted third party.
 
Probably as support for the preceding sentence that you snipped: "And the party did not anoint Hillary." Because for some reason, people ignore how much the actual voters in the primaries wanted Clinton over Sanders, and keep repeating the myth of how the party "anointed" her.

you nailed it. Thanks.
 
The "anointed" issue goes back way before the 2016 primaries. Clinton couldn't even get through the primaries in 2008. There's no real doubt that the Democratic establishment and the Clinton machine expected Clinton to be next up. They never developed alternative candidates among younger Democratic governors, senators, congressmen and mayors. The 2016 DNC chair had been Clinton's 2008 campaign chairman. Clinton had more than 500 superdelegate votes before the first primary. Sanders never expected to do as well as he did, but he wanted to promote a more progressive agenda and he didn't want Clinton to coast to victory unopposed. Yet he came close to winning.

Yeah, a lot of the people who are falsely claiming Clinton was anointed also falsely claim Sanders came close to winning. Simply, no. Sanders was never close to winning, even ignoring the super delegates. Most candidates with Sanders' votes would have dropped out by March*, but he clung to infinitesimally small chances to win and stuck it out. That's not coming close to winning.

*source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/fiveth...-sanders-comeback-would-be-unprecedented/amp/

The Democrats gave us Trump.

No, the people who voted for Trump gave us Trump.
 
.....
I don't care who called her anointed. She was not anointed. She was by far and away the most skilled, experienced, and qualified candidate in the Democratic Party and she was clearly ready and willing to build on and cement Obama's legacy. That's not being anointed. It's being prepared.
.....

And between 2008 and 2016, what other candidates did the Democratic Party even attempt to encourage or develop? A number of Democratic senators and governors could -- and should -- have been considered. And by the standards you are applying to Clinton, Biden was a far better qualified, better prepared, more experienced candidate, and it's a true tragedy that he didn't run.
 
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And between 2008 and 2016, what other candidates did the Democratic Party even attempt to encourage or develop? A number of Democratic senators and governors could -- and should -- have been considered. And by the standards you are applying to Clinton, Biden was a far better qualified, better prepared, more experienced candidate, and it's a true tragedy that he didn't run.

Biden chose not to run. And it's a shame he chose not to run. He would have also been well qualified. Perhaps Bernie would have been marginalized had Biden run, as Hillary and Biden may have left Bernie with little to no support. But he chose not to, despite the fact that many Democrats were hoping he would. It's his choice.

I agree the DNC took its eye off the ball with respect to both developing candidates and developing and defending narratives. But that doesn't mean Hillary was anointed. It just means the DNC wasn't forward thinking enough.
 
Yeah, a lot of the people who are falsely claiming Clinton was anointed also falsely claim Sanders came close to winning. Simply, no. Sanders was never close to winning, even ignoring the super delegates. Most candidates with Sanders' votes would have dropped out by March*, but he clung to infinitesimally small chances to win and stuck it out. That's not coming close to winning.

*source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/fiveth...-sanders-comeback-would-be-unprecedented/amp/

The only thing that made it even look close was the fact that California was not on Super Tuesday as it always had been until 2012. Sander's supporters were always looking at that whole grail and thinking, if we can do really well in California we can make up the ground. Had it been the same as a pre-2012 year, it would have been all over on Super Tuesday.

No, the people who voted for Trump gave us Trump.

I actually think that those on the left that refused to vote for Hilary because Bernie of Bust, or Protest Vote Green, or just stayed home, are more responsible.
 
I'd say Michelle Obama, except for the dynasty thing, and she probably wouldn't want it anyway. Oprah's been mentioned.
 
Janet Napolitano? She goofed big time as Homeland Security director, but she was popular throughout her governorship in Arizona. She carried all 15 counties in a red state. She's 59, very positive, not confrontational.

But we've decided women need not apply?
 
But we've decided women need not apply?

I think that's an improper takeaway from the last election.

I even think the right woman would have a good chance as a Republican candidate. Or even a black woman - think Condoleeza Rice, for example.

Both sexism and racism exist*, but I think it's wrong to blame them for every loss.


*As do reverse sexism and racism, as in vote for me because I'm a woman - or black.
 
Andrew Cuomo looks pretty good. He's got a good reputation, and knows how to hit Trump. As Attorney General he went after Elliot Spitzer, Wall Street for corrupt practices and child pornography on the internet. That makes him immune from soft on crime attacks and gives him credibility for go after someone in his own party.

Jay Inslee in Washington looks good too. When he was in the House he carried one of Washington's few remaining swing districts giving him appeal outside of the Democratic Base.
 
I loathe the electoral college for giving us the presidency of George W Bush, but I also forgive it because it prevented the second George W Bush presidency.
 

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