Disgraceful! Richard Spencer Sucker-Punched While Giving Interview

[Belz...]

Nope. I'm the one defending democracy from someone who wants to tear it down.

Destroying the rule of law, free speech and advocating political violence isn't defending democracy. It's tearing it down. Ironically, you're a bigger threat to Democracy than Spencer.

Or it is you who have a problem with the word "bad".

No, I think it's clear that "as bad" means that it has the same level of bad. And I think Hitler and his cronies win out on this front. Spencer is a repugnant muppet, but he's in no position to start a world war.

He's not a flaw in my thinking. He's an exception.

An exception that proves that a Nazi isn't as bad as "the Nazis" just by being a Nazi.

So do I.

Punching people is illegal, bub.

 

[varwoche]

Seems like just being a Nazi isn't enough, eh?

That was determined in the Milo thread, where uke2se traversed a slippery slope that started "only nazis" and wound up with bigots in general who should be subjected to vigilante justice.

 

[uke2se]

Destroying the rule of law, free speech and advocating political violence isn't defending democracy. It's tearing it down. Ironically, you're a bigger threat to Democracy than Spencer.

If you truly believe that, we are done, because that's the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

No, I think it's clear that "as bad" means that it has the same level of bad. And I think Hitler and his cronies win out on this front. Spencer is a repugnant muppet, but he's in no position to start a world war.

Look, if you don't want to understand what I'm saying, stop replying to me. You go on and feel morally superior.

An exception that proves that a Nazi isn't as bad as "the Nazis" just by being a Nazi.

See above.

Punching people is illegal, bub.

I know, bub.

 

[Belz...]

That was determined in the Milo thread, where uke2se traversed a slippery slope that started "only nazis" and wound up with bigots in general who should be subjected to vigilante justice.

Yeah his definitions are... fluid.

 

[Meed]

Pedantic. He's a neo-Nazi then.

You're missing my point. You said he's "just as bad as the Nazis" and then justified that claim by saying that he's just as bad as the Nazis because he's one of them. Saying someone is "just as bad as the Nazis" implies they're as bad as the real (historical) Nazis.

 

[uke2se]

That was determined in the Milo thread, where uke2se traversed a slippery slope that started "only nazis" and wound up with bigots in general who should be subjected to vigilante justice.

The slippery slope in that thread was created by the people who said that punching a Nazi would lead to civil war.

 

[Belz...]

If you truly believe that, we are done, because that's the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

I'm sorry that you don't see it. You're the one who's arguing for tearing down the foundations of American democracy.

Look, if you don't want to understand what I'm saying, stop replying to me. You go on and feel morally superior.

Don't turn this into a pissing match. You're the one who made the claim about Spencer being "as bad" as Nazis. He's clearly not. There's no shame in you admitting that and rephrasing.

I know, bub.

Don't you see the contradiction there?

 

[uke2se]

You're missing my point. You said he's "just as bad as the Nazis" and then justified that claim by saying that he's just as bad as the Nazis because he's one of them. Saying someone is "just as bad as the Nazis" implies they're as bad as the real (historical) Nazis.

I know. That's what I mean. He's as bad as the real (historical) Nazis. If you don't think so, bully for you. I Think that Spencer is as bad as the real (historical) Nazis. (Note for Argumemnon: This does not mean I believe Spencer has killed 6 million Jews).

 

[Belz...]

When you falsely, misleadingly and/or dishonestly attack someone, I think it can create the impression that there aren't legitimate criticisms to be made against said person. Or that an honest description of them wouldn't be enough to create a bad impression.

^ yeah, what Ink-Eyes said.

 

[uke2se]

Don't turn this into a pissing match. You're the one who made the claim about Spencer being "as bad" as Nazis. He's clearly not. There's no shame in you admitting that and rephrasing.

Why should I rephrase anything or admit something that I don't agree with? I think Spencer is as bad as the Nazis. I am able to do that without believing Spencer has killed even a single Jew.

Don't you see the contradiction there?

Nope. There is no contradiction. We have had this conversation before.

 

[Belz...]

I know. That's what I mean. He's as bad as the real (historical) Nazis. If you don't think so, bully for you. I Think that Spencer is as bad as the real (historical) Nazis. (Note for Argumemnon: This does not mean I believe Spencer has killed 6 million Jews).

Then you really don't know what "as bad" means.

Was Karl Marx as bad as Stalin because they were both communists? As bad? No, he wasn't. His theory was nonsense, but he wasn't Stalin, who was a bigger murderer than Hitler himself, both figuratively and literally.

You either don't know what "as bad" means, or you're ignoring the meaning in order to fuel your increasingly irrational rhetoric, or you're trolling us.

 

[uke2se]

Then you really don't know what "as bad" means.

Or it is you who don't know that.

Was Karl Marx as bad as Stalin because they were both communists? As bad? No, he wasn't. His theory was nonsense, but he wasn't Stalin, who was a bigger murderer than Hitler himself, both figuratively and literally.

Agreed. I do think Lenin was as bad as Stalin was, though, even though Lenin killed fewer people.

You either don't know what "as bad" means, or you're ignoring the meaning in order to fuel your increasingly irrational rhetoric, or you're trolling us.

Or you are simply wrong. You forgot that one.

 

[Belz...]

There is no contradiction.

You advocate for abandoning the rule of law by punching people, which is illegal, and then say you're in favour of the rule of law. That's what we skeptics call a "contradiction" i.e. two thoughts held together that are mutually-exclusive.

That's typical of ideologues and fanatics, by the way.

 

[uke2se]

You advocate for abandoning the rule of law by punching people, which is illegal, and then say you're in favour of the rule of law. That's what we skeptics call a "contradiction" i.e. two thoughts held together that are mutually-exclusive.

That's typical of ideologues and fanatics, by the way.

No, that's not a contradiction. We've had this conversation before. Make an attempt to think back if it's not too bothersome.

 

[Belz...]

Or it is you who don't know that.

We've been through this before. Everyone and their mother has now told you that you're using the words wrong. In fact you agreed with me on Schindler and Marx. Time to man up and admit that you're wrong about Spencer.

Agreed. I do think Lenin was as bad as Stalin was, though, even though Lenin killed fewer people.

Then by all means give us a clear definition of what "as bad" means for you.

 

[uke2se]

We've been through this before. Everyone and their mother has now told you that you're using the words wrong.

No, you have done so. A few others have piled on with different complaints.

In fact you agreed with me on Schindler and Marx. Time to man up and admit that you're wrong about Spencer.

Nope. I'm not wrong about Spencer. You are wrong about Spencer.

Then by all means give us a clear definition of what "as bad" means for you.

In this case, on the same moral level.

 

[Belz...]

No, that's not a contradiction. We've had this conversation before.

Yes we have. It's not my fault if you refuse to learn.

Let's see if you can understand the following:

- Punching people is illegal.
- The rule of law means respecting the law and allowing authorities to deal with problems like this.
- Advocating for punching people goes against the rule of law.
- You advocate for punching people.
X- You say that you support the rule of law.

The one with the X in front is the contradiction.

 

[Belz...]

No, you have done so.

Meed and varwoche don't seem to agree with you on this, either.

Nope. I'm not wrong about Spencer. You are wrong about Spencer.

I see you have no intention of ever moving the discussion beyond your bare claims.

In this case, on the same moral level.

Advocating for kicking people out of your country is morally equivalent to the murder of 60 million people through war and genocide?

 

[uke2se]

Yes we have. It's not my fault if you refuse to learn.

Let's see if you can understand the following:

- Punching people is illegal.
- The rule of law means respecting the law and allowing authorities to deal with problems like this.
- Advocating for punching people goes against the rule of law.
- You advocate for punching people.
X- You say that you support the rule of law.

The one with the X in front is the contradiction.

It's not a contradiction, and you either haven't bothered to try, or simply can't remember when we had this conversation before. Because you forget one important detail:

I believe the one who punches the Nazi should be tried for it.

Do you remember? The conversation we had about how one can think something is morally right, but disallowed by the law?

Remember?

 

[uke2se]

Meed and varwoche don't seem to agree with you on this, either.

Well, if you three don't agree with me, I might as well surrender, right? After all, you are the arbiters of what is right.

I see you have no intention of ever moving the discussion beyond your bare claims.

I don't even understand what this has to do with what I wrote. We've already had a discussion. We disagree. You have some sort of need to make me change my mind or admit that I'm wrong about my beliefs. I don't care about you or your needs. You're going to have to live with me disagreeing with you.

Advocating for kicking people out of your country is morally equivalent to the murder of 60 million people through war and genocide?

Yes. Because the real (historical) Nazis also started with wanting to kick people out of the country. Madagascar was one proposed destination for Europe's Jews.