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Roided Up "Boy" Wins Girls' State Wrestling Championship

BobTheCoward said:
Yes. Scrap the Texas law, any other laws dealing with public education, and any laws regulating how the medical profession can treat transgender issues. Then let the private parties negotiate an agreement.
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And how exactly is that going to solve the issue?

You seem to be speaking from an entirely theoretical perspective.
 
Argumemnon said:
And how exactly is that going to solve the issue?

You seem to be speaking from an entirely theoretical perspective.
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If the child wants to compete as a boy, there is a school in Texas that wants that, then they can do that. Meanwhile, those who don't want that can go to a different school. That isn't an option right now.
 
Argumemnon said:
That has literally nothing to do with either what I said, or the thread topic.



I'd like to answer this but it's hard when you claim that the doctor's the one who made the kid female. Aside from a "switch" in the genes, there was no way to know that the kid wasn't female.

My issue with trans people in relation to the male-female segregation in sports is that allowing a trans male in a male team is one thing, but if you allow this, you allow a trans female in a female team as well, and in that latter case, not only will most be able to make the team, but they'll be stronger and faster than the cis women there, knocking them out of the field. And if we stop segregating women and men altogether we have the same problem.

So, shall we be unfair to 0.3% of the population, or 99.7%? That was the point of my post: not everybody can walk on the moon even if they really, really want to.
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Here's the thing though.

If 0.3% of the population is trans, that means maybe half that number are MtF, so we're looking at .15% of those, how many will want to be in sports?

Women in general are less likely than men to participate seriously in competitive sports. Can't find a number, but I'm guessing it would be generous to say that half of females as a baseline actually are involved in serious competition.

So we're down to .075%

From that, trans people tend to be pretty self conscious of their bodies, MtF trans people often flock to stereotypical feminine behaviors to help bolster their challenged identity, that lessens the number more, hard to even guess the numbers.

From that you have a very small number of MtF young people who might pursue seriously competitive athletics. Now, within that group, some will be within the physical range of their cis female competitors, some might be beyond it. The ones who are within the range aren't a problem any more than tall or especially muscley cis females are a problem. The ones who are to a significant degree outside that range, well if they're like most young women, they're likely to feel self conscious about being perceived to win unfairly, and that would lead a fair amount of them to not want to compete in that arena.

What we're left with is the tiny amount of MtF young girls who want to compete with their cis female peers, have bodies that make it significantly unfair and no particular awareness or social care about that.

It's sure to happen, but it's also overwhelmingly likely to be an extreme rarity. The number of people affected by these competitions would be pretty low, not 99.7% of the population by any stretch.

In fact, given that sports is seen as normative for boys, while numbers would be impossible to find with any certainty, I wouldn't be shocked if the number of FtM trans boys who want to be a part of boys competitive sports exceeds the number of girls who have any possibility of being adversely effected by competing against a MtF girl.
 
BobTheCoward said:
If the child wants to compete as a boy, there is a school in Texas that wants that, then they can do that. Meanwhile, those who don't want that can go to a different school. That isn't an option right now.
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Private schools exist right now. I don't see that abolishing public schools would necessarily lead to the establishment of more accepting private schools in Texas.
 
BobTheCoward said:
If the child wants to compete as a boy, there is a school in Texas that wants that, then they can do that. Meanwhile, those who don't want that can go to a different school. That isn't an option right now.
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How about the child who wants to compete as a girl but who was born a boy and has the muscle and bone structure to prove it? Would it be fair the other way around?

Cavemonster said:
What we're left with is the tiny amount of MtF young girls who want to compete with their cis female peers, have bodies that make it significantly unfair and no particular awareness or social care about that.

It's sure to happen, but it's also overwhelmingly likely to be an extreme rarity.
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They're a rarity to begin with. But these numbers of yours are just made up. I wouldn't pretend to know how many there are, but how much of a transition must someone engage in in order to be accepted? How does one make sure that the person has gender disphoria?
 
Cavemonster said:
Private schools exist right now. I don't see that abolishing public schools would necessarily lead to the establishment of more accepting private schools in Texas.
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There would be a greater possibility of it given a greater number of choices. I think it is a given that if there were zero public schools, there would be more private schools than exist now.

Further, rather than legislation dictating what choices we can make, if the child cannot find a school, then it is the act of individuals controlling their own property rather than dictating the use of the property of others.
 
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BobTheCoward said:
Yes it does. All participants are doing so voluntarily.
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No, it doesn't. If I'm a woman competing in a field I don't want to get my ass handed to me by someone who's got the body structure of a man. Might as well let boys and girls compete together, but then don't complain when you don't have females in the olympics.
 
Argumemnon said:
No, it doesn't. If I'm a woman competing in a field I don't want to get my ass handed to me by someone who's got the body structure of a man. Might as well let boys and girls compete together, but then don't complain when you don't have females in the olympics.
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That is the beauty of choice. You get to negotiate the best decision for you. Maybe that best solution is you don't compete.
 
BobTheCoward said:
That is the beauty of choice. You get to negotiate the best decision for you. Maybe that best solution is you don't compete.
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You do realise that this would mean that women wouldn't compete at all, right? I assume that you think this is great, but plenty of people want women to compete, which is why we have segregation in sports in the first place, and why this trans issue keeps coming up.
 
Argumemnon said:
You do realise that this would mean that women wouldn't compete at all, right? I assume that you think this is great, but plenty of people want women to compete, which is why we have segregation in sports in the first place, and why this trans issue keeps coming up.
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They can start their own highschool.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Not free market. I'm perfectly happy if people want to structure themselves in a kibbutz with their freedom.
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Your solution isn't a solution: remove all rules and people will create new rules and governments right away.

So when we're asking for a solution we're asking for solutions within actual reality, not marxist-level wishful thinking.
 
Worm said:
Because selection for sports is exactly how we want to make academic opportunities available.
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That is my point. "We" should not be deciding how we make academic opportunities available. That should be up to the individual.
 
Individuals can't make academic opportunities available. OK, not entirely true. Most individuals can't. Public schools weren't invented because the evil government were trying to take choice away from people. In many ways they started to give a choice to people who previously had none.
 
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