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ICE uses church hypothermia shelter as a suspect trap

You don't do things like this outside critical emergency services locations because it discourages people from using them. In this case, a "warming center" or hypothermia shelter. Word gets out that ICE is using them as essentially "bait" and people stay away. Sooner or later, someone winds of dying because they were too scared to go.

And before anyone starts yammering about "only the illegals need fear", note that legal citizens and green card holders were also harassed by this.
 
ChristianProgressive said:
You don't do things like this outside critical emergency services locations because it discourages people from using them. In this case, a "warming center" or hypothermia shelter. Word gets out that ICE is using them as essentially "bait" and people stay away. Sooner or later, someone winds of dying because they were too scared to go.

And before anyone starts yammering about "only the illegals need fear", note that legal citizens and green card holders were also harassed by this.
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No surprise, I fear!!!!!!!!!
 
ChristianProgressive said:
You don't do things like this outside critical emergency services locations because it discourages people from using them. In this case, a "warming center" or hypothermia shelter. Word gets out that ICE is using them as essentially "bait" and people stay away. Sooner or later, someone winds of dying because they were too scared to go.

And before anyone starts yammering about "only the illegals need fear", note that legal citizens and green card holders were also harassed by this.
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It's similar to when the CIA was running fake vaccination programs in Pakistan to collect DNA as part of their spying efforts. Once it was exposed, locals stopped using legitimate vaccination services, which has led to an increase in polio and other diseases.
 
Poor widdle snowflakes. Perhaps the illegal criminals will go to where it's warmer instead saving the American Taxpayer the $$ necessary to deport them.

I'd had to show my Photo ID the other day to purchase a six pack of beer. Yea, it was a terrible inconvenience to me, but I got over it rather quickly realizing that I needed to prove I was old enough to purchase alcohol.

I've also had to show an ID to get back in the US from Canada and Mexico. Yea, terrible inconvenience. SNORT*
 
Reheat said:
Poor widdle snowflakes. Perhaps the illegal criminals will go to where it's warmer instead saving the American Taxpayer the $$ necessary to deport them.

....snip...
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I think Melania often goes to Florida, so she's one that is taking your advice.
 
Reheat said:
Poor widdle snowflakes. Perhaps the illegal criminals will go to where it's warmer instead saving the American Taxpayer the $$ necessary to deport them.

I'd had to show my Photo ID the other day to purchase a six pack of beer. Yea, it was a terrible inconvenience to me, but I got over it rather quickly realizing that I needed to prove I was old enough to purchase alcohol.

I've also had to show an ID to get back in the US from Canada and Mexico. Yea, terrible inconvenience. SNORT*
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Most of us don't carry proof of citizenship on our persons. Do you expect the homeless citizens needing to use this shelter keep their birth certificates with them?

I wonder what happened to and Mexican-Americans who tried to use this shelter. I'm only guessing, but it seems to me that detainment is likely. That's a little worse than having to show a license to buy beer or go without.
 
phiwum said:
Most of us don't carry proof of citizenship on our persons. Do you expect the homeless citizens needing to use this shelter keep their birth certificates with them?
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I don't carry my birth certificate with me either, but I'm pretty sure ICE would accept any form of ID that would show you're in the US legally. Things such as a driver license would likely suffice. In addition, many states will issue an ID for a nominal fee or in some cases for free. That would suffice, as well. BTW, you don't need to be a US Citizen to get either of those. Only that you are a legal resident.

You can't get a bank account without an ID and a Social Security number. There really is no valid excuse for someone legally in the US.
 
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Reheat said:
Poor widdle snowflakes. Perhaps the illegal criminals will go to where it's warmer instead saving the American Taxpayer the $$ necessary to deport them.

I'd had to show my Photo ID the other day to purchase a six pack of beer. Yea, it was a terrible inconvenience to me, but I got over it rather quickly realizing that I needed to prove I was old enough to purchase alcohol.

I've also had to show an ID to get back in the US from Canada and Mexico. Yea, terrible inconvenience. SNORT*
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Yes because being asked for ID for buying alcohol or crossing the border is the same as walking down the street minding your own business or staying in a shelter to protect against hypothermia. Such obvious probable cause things those. Or perhaps it was just because they knew a bunch of people that all looked Mexican were there.
 
Reheat said:
I don't carry my birth certificate with me either, but I'm pretty sure ICE would accept any form of ID that would show you're in the US legally. Things such as a driver license would likely suffice. In addition, many states will issue an ID for a nominal fee or in some cases for free. That would suffice, as well. BTW, you don't need to be a US Citizen to get either of those. Only that you are a legal resident.
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A driver's licence isn't proof of being legal, and besides, how many homeless people have them, or any state issued ID?
 
"I had to show ID to buy beer, so other people should have to show ID to not freeze to death!" is one of the most sickeningly heartless arguments I've ever seen.
 
Reheat said:
I don't carry my birth certificate with me either, but I'm pretty sure ICE would accept any form of ID that would show you're in the US legally. Things such as a driver license would likely suffice. In addition, many states will issue an ID for a nominal fee or in some cases for free. That would suffice, as well. BTW, you don't need to be a US Citizen to get either of those. Only that you are a legal resident.

You can't get a bank account without an ID and a Social Security number. There really is no valid excuse for someone legally in the US.
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First, I was under the impression that driver's license do not serve to show that you're in the country legally.

Second, the set of people without ID and the set of people needing a shelter in cold weather just might have some overlap, don't you think? Many homeless suffer from mental illness, addiction, etc. One can't expect them to have considered the possibility of needing an ID just to use a shelter.
 
Reheat said:
I don't carry my birth certificate with me either, but I'm pretty sure ICE would accept any form of ID that would show you're in the US legally. Things such as a driver license would likely suffice. In addition, many states will issue an ID for a nominal fee or in some cases for free. That would suffice, as well. BTW, you don't need to be a US Citizen to get either of those. Only that you are a legal resident.

You can't get a bank account without an ID and a Social Security number. There really is no valid excuse for someone legally in the US.
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Homeless people carry ID?
 
PhantomWolf said:
A driver's licence isn't proof of being legal,
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Yes, it is if from a Real ID state. I don't know about NZ, but in the US it is. Of course, there's always the possibility of a counterfeit one. ICE agents are trained to spot the counterfeit ones.

PhantomWolf said:
and besides, how many homeless people have them, or any state issued ID?
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They will have another warm place to go while they're being questioned.
 
Reheat said:
Poor widdle snowflakes. Perhaps the illegal criminals will go to where it's warmer instead saving the American Taxpayer the $$ necessary to deport them.

I'd had to show my Photo ID the other day to purchase a six pack of beer. Yea, it was a terrible inconvenience to me, but I got over it rather quickly realizing that I needed to prove I was old enough to purchase alcohol.

I've also had to show an ID to get back in the US from Canada and Mexico. Yea, terrible inconvenience. SNORT*
Click to expand...
What you seem to be suggesting is that the need to deport a few illegals outstrips the need to keep people from freezing to death. Do you really think that being an illegal immigrant should be penalized by freezing to death? That is not to mention that, if you thought about it, the homeless people who are likely to use hypothermia shelters also include a rather high percentage of people who, legal or not, do not get along well with authority. Some are mentally ill, some scared of authority for other reasons. If, as is suggested, the roundup included the harassment of people who were not illegal, and if, as is possible, the result is that those people will not avail themselves of such shelters, then your tiresome "widdle snowflake" cliché translates into a very cruel and heartlessly elitist attitude toward the discomfort and possible death of people. To compare it to the inconvenience of buying beer suggests a serious lack of thought.

You know, not every stupid and cruel idea can be justified by calling its opponents snowflakes. Not everything one tries to do to keep one's fellow man from dying in the cold is unamerican.
 
An ICE spokeswoman said the agency's "sensitive location" policy was followed. The policy requires agents to avoid arresting people at places of worship, schools and medical facilities. The spokeswoman emphasized the arrests took place across the street from the church and not on church property.
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Talk about splitting hairs. "We didn't go into the church or stand right outside the church, the church was simply the target."
 
phiwum said:
First, I was under the impression that driver's license do not serve to show that you're in the country legally.
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Your impression is wrong. You have to show proof of birth to obtain a Driver's License. There's more than one way to do that.

phiwum said:
Second, the set of people without ID and the set of people needing a shelter in cold weather just might have some overlap, don't you think? Many homeless suffer from mental illness, addiction, etc. One can't expect them to have considered the possibility of needing an ID just to use a shelter.
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As I said below, they'll have a warm place to stay while they're being questioned.
 
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