Brexit: Now What? Part III

[ceptimus]

The remainers stick with their comforting fiction that the side which won the referendum consists of racists and idiots. You'd think that by now they would be accepting they lost the argument and trying to assist with providing the best Brexit outcome for the UK. It seems that they would prefer their country to fail so that they can revel in that failure.

 

[Rat]

The remainers stick with their comforting fiction that the side which won the referendum consists of racists and idiots. You'd think that by now they would be accepting they lost the argument and trying to assist with providing the best Brexit outcome for the UK. It seems that they would prefer their country to fail so that they can revel in that failure.

Want it to fail? That seems like quite a common accusation. I want it to succeed, and I have no indication that leaving the EU can be anything other than a failure, at least for the majority. This is why I also object to the frequent attribution of treason. I don't hate the country, I want the country to succeed, and I believe that leaving the EU will materially harm the country and its population, so I am against it. I expect that it will fail when it leaves, but I would love to be wrong, and for all your guesses to be right.

 

[Craig B]

The remainers stick with their comforting fiction that the side which won the referendum consists of racists and idiots. You'd think that by now they would be accepting they lost the argument and trying to assist with providing the best Brexit outcome for the UK. It seems that they would prefer their country to fail so that they can revel in that failure.

Losing the referendum is not the same thing as losing the argument. The majority may be wrong, particularly when it has been lied to by racists. If you think otherwise you have a strange idea about how democracy works. The people who have the responsibility to produce the best outcome are the ones who promoted that outcome. If the outcome is a mess, that is the responsibility of those people who sought it, not those who rejected it in advance.

 

[Wildy]

You'd think that by now they would be accepting they lost the argument and trying to assist with providing the best Brexit outcome for the UK.

And what is the "best Brexit outcome for the UK"? And how realistic do you consider that outcome to be?

 

[3point14]

The remainers stick with their comforting fiction that the side which won the referendum consists of racists and idiots. You'd think that by now they would be accepting they lost the argument and trying to assist with providing the best Brexit outcome for the UK. It seems that they would prefer their country to fail so that they can revel in that failure.

What you're saying is that all those that voted to leave saw through the many, many lies and fabrications perpetrated by the leave campaign and chose to vote to leave because they knew it would be better anyway?

You must at least admit that the campaign to leave was riddled with outright untruths?

 

[ceptimus]

You must at least admit that the campaign to leave was riddled with outright untruths?

Most political campaigns are. The remain campaign was equally riddled with lies - I would say remain told more lies than leave. If you wish we can go over them one by one and I'll trade you one remain lie for each leave lie you can detail.

But that won't get us anywhere. The way to move forward now is for remain campaigners to accept that they've lost the opportunity to remain and engage in working out the best way forward, accepting that we're leaving.

 

[Rat]

Most political campaigns are. The remain campaign was equally riddled with lies - I would say remain told more lies than leave. If you wish we can go over them one by one and I'll trade you one remain lie for each leave lie you can detail.

I see this attitude quite a bit, too, and to be honest I find it utterly staggering. I have no particular interest in trading them either, really, but to imagine that it was about the same, or that remain lied more, is literally unbelievable.

 

[McHrozni]

And what is the "best Brexit outcome for the UK"? And how realistic do you consider that outcome to be?

The best Brexit outcome is UK becoming 51-54th state of US de jure, not just de facto. The plan is not very realistic.

McHrozni

 

[Architect]

I see this attitude quite a bit, too, and to be honest I find it utterly staggering. I have no particular interest in trading them either, really, but to imagine that it was about the same, or that remain lied more, is literally unbelievable.

Alas all-too believable, mate. There are many on the Brexit side who are approaching this with what looks like blind religious dogma.

 

[ceptimus]

Alas all-too believable, mate. There are many on the Brexit side who are approaching this with what looks like blind religious dogma.

A claim you make without any evidence so I'll make the same claim about remain.

There are many on the remain side who are approaching this with what looks like blind religious dogma.

As I posted above, I'm prepared to trade remain lie for leave lie, if that's what it takes to convince you. I'd rather not bother, but if you insist on claiming that leave told more lies than remain, I shall continue to make the offer.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

The remainers stick with their comforting fiction that the side which won the referendum consists of racists and idiots. You'd think that by now they would be accepting they lost the argument and trying to assist with providing the best Brexit outcome for the UK. It seems that they would prefer their country to fail so that they can revel in that failure.

It is far from comforting to see the lunatics in charge of the asylum.

 

[Lothian]

The remainers stick with their comforting fiction that the side which won the referendum consists of racists and idiots.

I don't think there is much doubt that the vast majority of racists supported leave. That does not mean that all leave supporters are racist or idiots but there is ample evidence that the less educated someone was the more likely they were to vote leave.

You'd think that by now they would be accepting they lost the argument and trying to assist with providing the best Brexit outcome for the UK.

Why should someone opposing something help make it happen? Should opponents of apartheid have sought the best apartheid system they could have or were they right to continue to oppose what they felt was wrong?

It seems that they would prefer their country to fail so that they can revel in that failure.

It is because they don't want the country to fail that they are opposing brexit.

If, as I do, you think the best Brexit solution is worse than the status quo, opposing brexit is the patriotic thing to do.

 

[Greebo]

Trump hasn't a clue. For example he was complaining about Japan not buying American cars and implying it was because of some kind of trade restriction.
There isn't any kind of tariff on foreign car imports in to Japan. Mercedes, BMW, VW, Mini and Jaguar have no problems. Japan doesn’t buy American cars because thry are too big for a lot of streets and parking spaces, have the wheel on the wrong side, have half the fuel economy and aren't of the quality they like.
If Trump thinks it's because of trade deals and tariffs what else doesn’t he understand about international trade and what is he going to insist on when negotiations start with the UK?

You could have stopped writing after the first sentence.

 

[catsmate]

Or when Brexit happens all those brown and black people in the UK don't magically dissapeare

Oh I'm sure the Mail readers have some ideas.....

 

[Greebo]

Most political campaigns are. The remain campaign was equally riddled with lies - I would say remain told more lies than leave. If you wish we can go over them one by one and I'll trade you one remain lie for each leave lie you can detail.

But that won't get us anywhere. The way to move forward now is for remain campaigners to accept that they've lost the opportunity to remain and engage in working out the best way forward, accepting that we're leaving.

I may read this wrong, but shouldn't Leave campaign already have worked this out and not as you suggest be relying on the Remain camp to help work out the solution?

 

[Strawberry]

The remainers stick with their comforting fiction that the side which won the referendum consists of racists and idiots. You'd think that by now they would be accepting they lost the argument and trying to assist with providing the best Brexit outcome for the UK. It seems that they would prefer their country to fail so that they can revel in that failure.

Some of us want it to fail because we want to leave the UK and have never seen it as our country. The only reason I voted for Brexit was in the hope that it would turn out to be a disaster and help usher in a united Ireland.

 

[3point14]

Most political campaigns are. The remain campaign was equally riddled with lies - I would say remain told more lies than leave. If you wish we can go over them one by one and I'll trade you one remain lie for each leave lie you can detail.

But that won't get us anywhere. The way to move forward now is for remain campaigners to accept that they've lost the opportunity to remain and engage in working out the best way forward, accepting that we're leaving.

God no, the best way to proceed now is not to leave europe.

There's no requirement for it, there's certainly no mandate for it.

 

[The Don]

Some of us want it to fail because we want to leave the UK and have never seen it as our country. The only reason I voted for Brexit was in the hope that it would turn out to be a disaster and help usher in a united Ireland.

Though it looks like you'll end up with a disunited Ireland with a hard border instead

At least in the medium term

 

[Strawberry]

Though it looks like you'll end up with a disunited Ireland with a hard border instead

At least in the medium term

That's unavoidable if the nationalist electorate are to be shaken out of their apathy, as is the fall of the executive and the Good Friday Agreement and a return to hated direct rule. The irony is that none of these things were caused by Sinn Féin, they were all handed to us by the British and the Unionists.

The result is that at the last opinion poll support for staying in the UK has collapsed among Catholics in NI since the Brexit vote. Its dropped from around a third of the Catholic electorate to less than 5%, with support for a united Ireland up to 44% among the population overall. I fully expect to see Ireland united in my lifetime, although I think we'll have to go through some pain first.

 

[ceptimus]

Ireland should be reunited. The current situation is a fudge due to history and politics. In the long run, geography trumps politics.

Brexit and the nonsense about soft and hard borders will hopefully bring the uniting forward. Let's hope it will happen peacefully.