“This is what tolerance looks like at UC Berkeley”

[rdwight]

Sounds like the Berkeley police, despite being under no obligation to risk themselves to protect him did so.

That you want to make this into something to be upset about is your issue to resolve with yourself.

Be upset about criminal behavior all you want, I even agree. But at this point now you're weaving us towards conspiracy la-la land where UCB, the city, the police, and whoever else are all complicit in some way.

Dumbass kids broke laws. You're trying to write the script for a whodunit over here.

You have lower expectations of the police and their responsibility than I do. There doesn't have to be a conspiracy to suggest that they did not do their jobs in a manner the community would expect.

I fully admit my lack of operational procedure knowledge when dealing with a protest with small portions of bad actors, but I would expect in a situation dealing with such an occurrence, sitting back with no arrests is not the best course of action.

My high school football games had comparable crowds in total as the protesters. If the visiting team had began vandalizing school property, I can guarantee there would be arrests made and an attempt to dissuade similar actions. The fact the opposing team would all be uniform in appearance (football uniforms), that would give an added leg up on weeding out the specific bad apples.

I think having expectations of certain actions of the police are necessary. Saying they are not required to risk themselves is a random cop out. You would not use that thinking if a band of KKK members had infiltrated a similar non-violent protest and began assaulting minorities and caused property damage. "Well, they weren't required to risk themselves to stop criminal acts.. And how could they find those KKK members in those crowds? Especially since they are the only ones wearing those white sheets.."

It's disingenuous in the sense that you would expect different actions depending on the perpetrators purpose. If you agree with it, inaction on the side of the police is fine. If you disagree with it, action was required. I don't think there should be any ambiguity here.

 

[sunmaster14]

That sounds like The Douchiest Show on Earth.

Great contribution. By the way, I'm not at all impressed with Tucker Carlson's show. He's like the conservative version of Chris Matthews on Hardball.

I've said before that far too many people see "racist" as an insult, when it's really a description. This may be true of "homophobe" as well. Having a single, obviously hateful, gay guy on staff won't help them in the slightest.

This is quite disingenuous. "Racist" is a powerful insult (although it's becoming less powerful). It is probably the 2nd most feared insult by upper class white people (pedophile is slightly worse) because of its potential to cause social stigma and damage to one's career. Your claim is belied by the fact that progressives have tried to alter the definition of racist to be one-sided, so that only whites can be racist. The word has become a political tool, not a useful descriptor.

 

[NoahFence]

Their choice of time and place kind of gives it away.

It was also the perfect time and place for conservative agitators to wear their masks so they can't be identified as such, and cause as much trouble to be blamed on "liberals" as possible.

Equally plausible, despite pleas to the contrary.

 

[Thermal]

Their choice of time and place kind of gives it away.

A lot of posters are assuming this, but IIRC, anarchists are generally anti-authority more than leftist. The right makes a more frequent and natural target, but that does not mean they favor the political left; they are anti-political. They don't appear on the left/moderate/right scale, they wait outside of all that with bricks and Molotovs in hand, looking for an excuse to protest the status quo.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Eleven arrested during protest against conservative comedian at NYU

Eleven people have been arrested outside New York University during a heated protest against a conservative comedian who gave a speech at the school, police said on Friday.

A group that organised the protest against Vice Media co-founder Gavin McInnes said he was known for using incendiary language.

The protesters face charges of disorderly conduct, resisting arrest and criminal mischief after they were taken into custody during a demonstration against McInnes, who made an appearance at the university late on Thursday, a New York City Police Department spokesman said.

McInnes said on Twitter he had been sprayed with pepper spray.

Read more:
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/eleven-...against-conservative-comedian-at-nyu/42934348 (February 3, 2017)

Arrests were made. Well it's about bloody time these left-wing criminals are carted off to jail. If they can't act civilized, then put them in prison and throw away the keys.

 

[shuize]

The "progressive" left must have some sort of masochistic desire to get more Trump because rioting over a college speaker is how you get more Trump.

 

[sunmaster14]

Arrests were made. Well it's about bloody time these left-wing criminals are carted off to jail. If they can't act civilized, then put them in prison and throw away the keys.

No, not a good idea.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

No, not a good idea.

The late, great, George Carlin. I wish he were still here. I would love to hear his take on the current insanity sweeping across America.

 

[acbytesla]

:


I'm trying to justify Trump's threat to withhold funding (pending an investigation of course). I agree with him.

The President doesn't have that authority.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

You have lower expectations of the police and their responsibility than I do. There doesn't have to be a conspiracy to suggest that they did not do their jobs in a manner the community would expect.

I'm not the one who floated the idea that the university, city, or police were careless or unconcerned to begin with. In fact I was pushing back against that idea.

I fully admit my lack of operational procedure knowledge when dealing with a protest with small portions of bad actors, but I would expect in a situation dealing with such an occurrence, sitting back with no arrests is not the best course of action.

I only know it from the protest side for the most part. I've seen cautious departments and I've seen departments that are so 'zero tolerance' I have to question their sanity.

Officer safety should be #1, though. Ratio of officers to protestors, what kind of gear the officers are in, whether they have crowd dispersal tools, etc. If it's a dozen officers in plain patrol gear, they would be well advised to hang back for a bit while their watch commander gets them what they need.

My high school football games had comparable crowds in total as the protesters. If the visiting team had began vandalizing school property, I can guarantee there would be arrests made and an attempt to dissuade similar actions. The fact the opposing team would all be uniform in appearance (football uniforms), that would give an added leg up on weeding out the specific bad apples.

Again, depends on the variables at that moment. I've seen numerous instances of police hanging back a good long while. It takes time and observation to find bad apples, although it is more complex, you're looking even deeper at which people have interactions indicating friendships or fondness (likely to intervene in an attempt to apprehend) and waiting for moments when people are isolated from each other. In general, if they feel disadvantaged, they'll wait it out a bit while protestors burn off energy (less struggle) and many will just leave (get their car tag, go visit them at home later).

I think having expectations of certain actions of the police are necessary. Saying they are not required to risk themselves is a random cop out. You would not use that thinking if a band of KKK members had infiltrated a similar non-violent protest and began assaulting minorities and caused property damage. "Well, they weren't required to risk themselves to stop criminal acts.. And how could they find those KKK members in those crowds? Especially since they are the only ones wearing those white sheets.."

No, I mean literally Warren v. D.C.

"The duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists."

I'm no fan of the decision and I don't condone the violence either way. There is no 'gotcha' here for you to find, I'm afraid.

I'm not aware of a "special relationship" between the police and Milo, so the fact they helped him is literally not something they were compelled (by law) to do as police officers.

It's disingenuous in the sense that you would expect different actions depending on the perpetrators purpose. If you agree with it, inaction on the side of the police is fine. If you disagree with it, action was required. I don't think there should be any ambiguity here.

There is no ambiguity. You decided I'm being a hypocrite based on nothing.

 

[sunmaster14]

I'm not the one who floated the idea that the university, city, or police were careless or unconcerned to begin with. In fact I was pushing back against that idea.



I only know it from the protest side for the most part. I've seen cautious departments and I've seen departments that are so 'zero tolerance' I have to question their sanity.

Officer safety should be #1, though. Ratio of officers to protestors, what kind of gear the officers are in, whether they have crowd dispersal tools, etc. If it's a dozen officers in plain patrol gear, they would be well advised to hang back for a bit while their watch commander gets them what they need.



Again, depends on the variables at that moment. I've seen numerous instances of police hanging back a good long while. It takes time and observation to find bad apples, although it is more complex, you're looking even deeper at which people have interactions indicating friendships or fondness (likely to intervene in an attempt to apprehend) and waiting for moments when people are isolated from each other. In general, if they feel disadvantaged, they'll wait it out a bit while protestors burn off energy (less struggle) and many will just leave (get their car tag, go visit them at home later).



No, I mean literally Warren v. D.C.

"The duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists."

I'm no fan of the decision and I don't condone the violence either way. There is no 'gotcha' here for you to find, I'm afraid.

I'm not aware of a "special relationship" between the police and Milo, so the fact they helped him is literally not something they were compelled (by law) to do as police officers.



There is no ambiguity. You decided I'm being a hypocrite based on nothing.

Aside from the fact that the Warren v. DC case is not binding on the 9th Circuit (which has jurisdiction over Berkeley), it doesn't strike me as relevant. The case was about whether or not victims of a crime could sue the city and police for negligence in responding promptly and effectively to a crime in progress. It doesn't seem like there was any allegation of malice on the part of the city or police.

My allegation here is that Berkeley was guilty of willful negligence. Also, the public duty doctrine (whatever that is) would seem to apply to an attempt by a mob to disrupt the peace and quash the right of hundreds of people to assemble and speak. This is simply not the same thing as police failing to investigate properly a report of a home intrusion and rape in progress.

 

[rdwight]

I'm not the one who floated the idea that the university, city, or police were careless or unconcerned to begin with. In fact I was pushing back against that idea.

Officer safety should be #1, though. Ratio of officers to protestors, what kind of gear the officers are in, whether they have crowd dispersal tools, etc. If it's a dozen officers in plain patrol gear, they would be well advised to hang back for a bit while their watch commander gets them what they need.

Not really in the boat on officer safety being #1 but I agree that they should only do what they are equipped to handle. That being said, I do feel that reviewing policy might be in order if it is found to be unable to deal with small level protests and vandalism/assaults.

No, I mean literally Warren v. D.C.

"The duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists."

I'm no fan of the decision and I don't condone the violence either way. There is no 'gotcha' here for you to find, I'm afraid.

I'm not aware of a "special relationship" between the police and Milo, so the fact they helped him is literally not something they were compelled (by law) to do as police officers.

I never indicated any special relationship between Milo and the police. I am more specifically speaking about the police in regards to their duty to the community. Milo isn't paying for the $100,000 in damages. The community will. And I think that the community has the right to expect a certain level of action from the police force. While civilly they are not required to do their jobs in certain respects, that doesn't mean the place that employs them can't have a voice about their inaction.

There is no ambiguity. You decided I'm being a hypocrite based on nothing.

Conceded. I should not have said 'you'. It was more a general statement than something that should have been attributed to you. I apologize for that.

 

[varwoche]

Liberalism is a cancer.

Again, just so that protesters don't make the mistake of thinking these people are allies. Milo was planning at his gathering to out undocumented students. These students could get into trouble with immigration authorities and possibly have to stop their education at UC Berkeley or even be deported. Leftists employed a black bloc tactic and prevented this from happening. Liberals on the other hand would happily throw undocumented students, or anyone else targeted by Milo & co, under the bus to further their own interests.

This is one of the most fantastically weak citations I've ever seen on this forum, and that's no small feat.

 

[Wayward son]

This is one of the most fantastically weak citations I've ever seen on this forum, and that's no small feat.

Well maybe it will change your mind when I tell you that the original person who tweeted this said that it comes from "reliable sources" (multiple) and when challenged said that there was no way these sources could ever be named.

 

[theprestige]

This is one of the most fantastically weak citations I've ever seen on this forum, and that's no small feat.

You had me at "fantastical"

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

There isn't a progressive pundit around who could hold a candle to Milo in a debate.

I agree, and I think this is exactly what they're afraid of.

In addition it seems like progressive pundits have gotten really comfortable in their bubble and forgotten how to debate, even internally. They seem to spend a lot of energy on memes that are meant to be shared and consumed amongst themselves, or shared on social media for virtue signaling.

Milo believes in Pizzagate.

Argumemnon asked your for a source for this a couple of pages ago. I second his request.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Arrests were made. Well it's about bloody time these left-wing criminals are carted off to jail. If they can't act civilized, then put them in prison and throw away the keys.

There's some interesting video from the incident. Especially informative was this segment where an NYU "professor" was upset at police for not protecting "anti-fascist" members from College Republicans debating them.

For some reason, the usual methods for starting a Youtube video at a certain point don't work anymore. For example, adding &start=270 to the link should have done the trick. It used to work.

I just right-clicked and went to "Copy video URL at current time" and it seemed to work. The copied URL seemed to append something more like t=270 instead of start=270. YMMV.

 

[dudalb]

Any evidence? In theory this is a forum for skeptics, so I'd like more than a link to a facebook post of some person I don't know.

And even if true, please explain why that justifies the rioting.

 

[dudalb]

The late, great, George Carlin. I wish he were still here. I would love to hear his take on the current insanity sweeping across America.

I got news for you. Carlin would be going after Trump 24/7.

 

[Resume]

Argumemnon asked your for a source for this a couple of pages ago. I second his request.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-06/milo-yiannopoulos-told-not-speak-“pizzaga

During the introduction to his lecture at Miami University on Monday, Breitbart News journalist and technology editor Milo Yiannopoulos informed the crowd that he was unable to address the highly controversial topic of “Pizzagate” because he had received phone calls from Washington D.C. that told him “not yet.”

We are going to talk this evening about a few things that are close to my heart,” Milo told his audience. “Although, I have one announcement to make which is that sadly when I announced I was going to be speaking about Pizzagate this evening, I got a number of phone calls with Washington D.C. area codes saying ‘not yet.

http://www.newsweek.com/pizzagate-resurfaces-anti-semitic-slander-528950

There is at least one sign that even the so-called alt-right wants to distance itself from Sunday night’s pizza place shooting. On Monday night, pop right-wing agitator Milo Yiannopoulos, who lost his Twitter access earlier this year after one too many online insults against women and minorities, was on the campus of Miami University in Ohio, scheduled to talk about “PIZZAGATE: The deep Dish on Liberalism and Pedophilia.” Half an hour before the speech, he abruptly changed his topic to “On Stabby Muslims, Campus Censors and Daddy’s Transition.”

Sure looks like he wanted to believe it.