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Is there really a war on Christianity?

No. What you're seeing is the self-made martyr complex.

Outside of wars to strip nativity scenes from city hall displays at Christmas time, up to and including deliberate plans to clog filling out forms for all the available display slots to take them up with atheist displays, to the cheers of people around here.

Nah, no war against it at all.
 
Attempting to correct unfair discrimation in favour of Christians and against non-Christians in Christian doiminated societies is a 'war on Christianity' in the same way that attempting to correct unfair discrimination in favour of men and against women in male dominated societies is a 'war on men'.
 
Outside of wars to strip nativity scenes from city hall displays at Christmas time, up to and including deliberate plans to clog filling out forms for all the available display slots to take them up with atheist displays, to the cheers of people around here.

Nah, no war against it at all.
I freely admit to limited warfare in the sense of voting for or supporting any items designed to make a preference/tenet of any religion into a law for all or removing religions/their operations from any laws made for taxation, safety, health, insurance requirements for business, pay standard minimum for any business and similar!!!! And NO laws should be passed that would promote any or all religions.

In other words no religion or its' members should be exempt from any laws for everyone else!!!
 
Ironically, the bloodiest wars against Christians have been waged by other Christians.
 
Yes, there is a war on Christianity. You see it all over the place on this site in general in a bigoted, biased and hypocritical way. Bigot and biased you should understand easily; hypocritical in the sense that you never see anything bad about Islam or, especially, Judaism written about on these forums; especially the jews.

Haters will always hate whether it is rational, fair, right or just.

How very, very odd.

Suppose you demonstrate specific examples of this so-called "war"?

As for "not seeing anything bad" about "Islam or, especially, Judaism written about on these forums"; in my case it has more to do with the fact that no practitioner of Islam, or of Judaism, has gone out of their way to confrrront me, make up silly stuff, or promote laws against me due to disapproval of my perceived lifestyle; than about agreeing with, or giving a pass to, either group. Or any group of superstitious.
 
Yes, there is a war on Christianity. You see it all over the place on this site in general in a bigoted, biased and hypocritical way. Bigot and biased you should understand easily; hypocritical in the sense that you never see anything bad about Islam or, especially, Judaism written about on these forums; especially the jews.

Haters will always hate whether it is rational, fair, right or just.
I didn't say anything against any religion I merely asked if there was a war on Christianity. Perhaps my post should have read. "Is there really a war on Christianity or are people merely fighting back"?
 
Yes, there is a war on Christianity. You see it all over the place on this site in general in a bigoted, biased and hypocritical way. Bigot and biased you should understand easily; hypocritical in the sense that you never see anything bad about Islam or, especially, Judaism written about on these forums; especially the jews.

Haters will always hate whether it is rational, fair, right or just.

What are you smoking?

Just to help you snap out of it, "war" is a metaphor as used here, and originated as hyperbolic misdirection by complainers seeking easy weeping sympathy through abuse of semantics. Nevertheless, if you object to legitimate skeptical treatment of unscientific assertions, such as those made by religion, I suggest you find a nice mirror and talk to the nodding fellow in it. I'm sure he'll welcome the company.

As to the hypocrisy, the site does have search functions. Oops!
 
I didn't say anything against any religion I merely asked if there was a war on Christianity. Perhaps my post should have read. "Is there really a war on Christianity or are people merely fighting back"?

I'm not sure what the difference would be. You could read that as just two ways of saying the same thing. But I think you mean to ask whether we can determine who the aggressor is in the debate between religious and non-religious folk, especially over public policy.

I tend toward the "fighting back" interpretation, but casting Christianity as an aggressor is too simplistic a historical interpretation. Granted the first European arrivals to the Americas made no attempt to hide their desire to impose Christian faith on the inhabitants, or to practice their particular form of faith in relative peace. Despite the attempts to make the United States a secular nation, we have allowed holdover behavior that meant for many years most of our discussions of policy and morals were based on Christian faith. Sunday was a de facto day off work, etc.

From the religious believer's point of view, what's happening in these later decades is an erosion of a status quo that for several generations accepted a certain parallel between public policy and religious belief. Christians weren't fighting anything because, by and large, they didn't have to. I think we (meaning America) went from the Catholic and Protestant invasions of the colonial period to a long term of laissez-faire acceptance of religious influence over policy. If there can be said to be a resurgence of asserting religion in public policy, I'd look to the transition of the U.S. Republican Party over the past few election cycles and the accession of the Tea Party.

From the nonbeliever's point of view, there is an increased recognition of how much public policy has been or is being influenced by Christian doctrine, and a shifting public perception for how much this should be allowed. These policies are sometimes very much at odds with populist sentiment, and are thus perceived as the result of an oligarchy of (usually unelected) leaders.

Case in point. Utah has a law requiring a so-called "Zion Curtain," a two-meter tall translucent barrier separating the area in a restaurant where alcoholic drinks are prepared. This is ostensibly intended to prevent children from seeing this activity. Not unexpected in a state where the vastly dominant religion forbids alcohol. But 70 percent of Utah residents oppose the policy -- including a majority of Mormons. The governor opposes it. Restauranteurs detest it, especially national franchises who typically build according to standardized architect plans. There is no evidence it has any effect on underage drinking or alcohol-related crime. Our office of economic development quantizes the loss to our state from this and other silly liquor laws at hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Every year, including this year, a resolution is presented in our legislature to do away with the Zion Curtain, and every year (probably also this one, but time will tell) the measure is defeated. Because every year the Mormon church issues a policy statement supporting keeping the Zion Curtain in place. This is an example of behavior that probably rightly stirs opposition to religion.

It's the classic church versus state argument, and at times religions and religious people overstep their boundaries to bear upon the state. That we have historically not opposed these oversteps does not mean they are justified in perpetuity. And, shifting back to the believers' perspective, this may be why some of them have concluded that a war has "suddenly" been declared on them. They have heretofore defined "religious freedom" as including the status quo oversteps that are now being challenged, and thus see it as having to retreat from a previously held position.

I think there are affirmative acts on both sides of the debate. We have more and more challenges to public policies that seem to have an inappropriate religious basis. And we have legislatures attempting to restore a definition of religious freedom that include now-forbidden practices such as certain acts of discrimination. The "war" terminology is, I think, just hyperbole. The struggle to find a balance between religious and civil liberties is (and probably ever will be) ongoing, and the rhetoric of the debate just changes from time to time.
 
I'm not seeing a war on Christians, but I do see a war on Christmas.

I'm an atheist myself, so I don't have any sympathy for believers of Sky Daddy in any flavor, but I do like Christmas, it's a tradition.
Not in Scotland where Christmas was banned - by Calvinist Christians - in 1641; and it only became a public holiday again in 1958, with the advance of secularism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_in_Scotland
 
Until I see widespread Christian places of worship being vandalised almost daily and talk of bringing into law the banning of clothing and iconography I don't see a war.

This!!! And it is not happening!!!!
 
I freely admit to limited warfare in the sense of voting for or supporting any items designed to make a preference/tenet of any religion into a law for all or removing religions/their operations from any laws made for taxation, safety, health, insurance requirements for business, pay standard minimum for any business and similar!!!! And NO laws should be passed that would promote any or all religions.

In other words no religion or its' members should be exempt from any laws for everyone else!!!

Oooops - or be advantaged over any other group by passed laws!!!!!!
 
Yes, there is a war on Christianity. You see it all over the place on this site in general in a bigoted, biased and hypocritical way. Bigot and biased you should understand easily; hypocritical in the sense that you never see anything bad about Islam or, especially, Judaism written about on these forums; especially the jews.

Haters will always hate whether it is rational, fair, right or just.


A wake up call is needed here. Most, if not all, English speaking countries around the World have a Christian heritage, so Christianity is the religion being targeted mostly, by those who have managed to shed the shackles of religion.

On English language sites like this one the theists are almost always Christian, and hence their beliefs are in the cross hairs. When Muslims or Jews raise there heads, their silly stuff is dealt with in the same manner as that of the Christians, with no favoritism shown.
 
To sum up, we have several different viewpoints, mostly from the anti-religious types, and zero actual examples of it being used in the wild.


Asking for examples is a reasonable request. Some of us have seen the phrase used so often we take it for granted that others are familiar with its use, but obviously people who don't keep up with conservative media and right-wing echo chambers (where the phrase "war on Christianity" appears frequently) would be less aware of this.



No.

I criticize people I disagree with when they post links without describing what it is at the linked sites which they feel is evidence to support their claim, and I'm equally willing to criticize people I agree with when they do the same. If you have good evidence to post (and I believe you do) then you should post it.

I'm not going to click your links. My general rule is I don't click links unless the person posting them provides a good description of what is to be found at the link.

But I'm happy to provide several additional examples for the benefit of anyone else who shares my unwillingness to accept blind links as evidence, because this really is an easy claim to provide evidence for.

A quick Google search turned up more than 2 million hits for the phrase "war on Christianity", and an article from The Christian Post appeared early on. (The Christian Post is a fairly prominent evangelical Christian publication, in existence more than 15 years and available both in print and online.)

The article is entitled "7 Signs That America Declared War on Christianity" and says:

Is there an increasing hostility to Christian values and religious freedoms in our country today?

Here are seven representative examples, all from the last few weeks...


Typical example: the NCAA chose not to hold Final Four events in cities which sanction discrimination.

Breitbart.com is a fairly prominent right-wing echo chamber site, widely read and widely quoted. Here's an article from them which uses the phrase:
"War on Christians: Marine Bible Verse Case Heads to Supreme Court".

This is about Monifa Sterling, who was court-martialed for repeatedly refusing to obey the orders of and showing disrespect to a superior officer who had told her to remove a Bible verse from her desk in a shared space.

(According to Google search this story appears on a large number of right-wing sites which regard it as an example of the war on Christianity.)

A site called TheConservative posted an article asking the question: "IS THERE A WAR AGAINST CHRISTIANITY IN AMERICA?" The article begins:

Left wing political groups want an America where sin is not defined by Christian morality!

They want an America not hobbled by Christian codes of ethics!

On the surface war seems like a harsh word to apply to what we are beginning to see more and more of in the press, on the news and in the courts. War is the attempt to destroy and subdue what one considers its enemy. This “war” is not being waged against any other religion. It seems like these groups that are waging this “war” are more than willing to embrace any other religion as long as it does not name the name of Christianity. Anything that bears the name of Christ or relates to Christ in any way is legal game for their attacks. I could go into detail about the attacks against the Ten Commandments, Christmas, manger scenes, and on and on and on.


A religious site calling itself TheTruthWins has an entire category of articles titled Society's War On Christianity. Many of these are about the teaching of evolution, which it considers an attack on Christianity. Others are articles about movies (such as Noah) and tv shows (such as Lucifer) which it considers to be part of a war on Christianity.

That's four examples of the phrase in use, out of a very long list of Google hits. Is that enough, The Big Dog, or do you still believe that there are zero examples out there of the phrase being used?
 
A quick Google search turned up more than 2 million hits for the phrase "war on Christianity",...

Which is what I did also, and what we encouraged The Big Dog to do in order to dispel his doubt that the phrase was indeed used "in the wild." Asking at length that his opponents explicitly provide examples, as a substitute for such self-service information gathering, is less reasonable, in my opinion; in his particular idiom it marks a derailment from productive discussion about whether such a "war" actually exists toward a pointless bickering about the shortcomings of skeptics that seems to characterize most of his arguments.

Since I performed the same search as you and got the same principal hits as you, I think you managed to select some pretty representative samples of the claim being made among modern Fundamentalists. It touches on several of the items we've already discussed, such as the perception that Christians have a victim complex and that they identify aspects of religious privilege as protected expression. Good selection.
 
Yes, there is a war on Christianity. You see it all over the place on this site in general in a bigoted, biased and hypocritical way. Bigot and biased you should understand easily; hypocritical in the sense that you never see anything bad about Islam or, especially, Judaism written about on these forums; especially the jews.

Haters will always hate whether it is rational, fair, right or just.
This site? I don't think it's about Christianity, or war, or hate. It's about all theists. They are simply wrong, that's all, there are no supernatural beings.
 
A wake up call is needed here. Most, if not all, English speaking countries around the World have a Christian heritage, so Christianity is the religion being targeted mostly, by those who have managed to shed the shackles of religion.

On English language sites like this one the theists are almost always Christian, and hence their beliefs are in the cross hairs. When Muslims or Jews raise there heads, their silly stuff is dealt with in the same manner as that of the Christians, with no favoritism shown.
:thumbsup:
 
Asking for examples is a reasonable request. Some of us have seen the phrase used so often we take it for granted that others are familiar with its use, but obviously people who don't keep up with conservative media and right-wing echo chambers (where the phrase "war on Christianity" appears frequently) would be less aware of this.

Judging by the various and multiple links to right wing echo chambers and alt-right sources that TBD has posted in the politics section, I wouldn't categorize him as not keeping up with conservative media.

Heck, I actively avoid Fox News, Brietbart, et al, but the "war on Christianity" whine has been going on as long as I can remember, and one can easily find people using the phrase online as far back as 20 years ago.
 
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