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President Trump: Part II

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Giz said:
Sigh.

Do you want to win the next election, or do you want to be arrogant and condescending enough that people vote Trump again?
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What's the alternative? This is US politics, there's no middle ground, no quarter given. What would you expect the effect of magnanimity to be?


People voted for Trump because they didn't like the alternative, that's fine. I really don't think, however, that anyone other than Trump and those who voted for him are to 'blame' for his election.

Those who voted for him didn't need to. They didn't actually need to vote for anyone. They chose to expend calories in advancing him towards the White house.



The fact that there seems to be an "I voted for Trump but he isn't my fault" movement at the moment is very telling.
 
3point14 said:
What's the alternative? This is US politics, there's no middle ground, no quarter given. What would you expect the effect of magnanimity to be?


People voted for Trump because they didn't like the alternative, that's fine. I really don't think, however, that anyone other than Trump and those who voted for him are to 'blame' for his election.

Those who voted for him didn't need to. They didn't actually need to vote for anyone. They chose to expend calories in advancing him towards the White house.

The fact that there seems to be an "I voted for Trump but he isn't my fault" movement at the moment is very telling.
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Just more of the same ********. Agree with our awful policies or we will blame you when we enact them/vote for them. Grown up people apparently fall for this line?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Yes, we'll put you and Emily's cat in the category, "don't blame us, not our fault we bought the phony propaganda about Clinton and didn't realize just how bad Trump was. We blame Clinton." :rolleyes:
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I think you could probably put Emily's Cat and myself in a category, just not one with your creatively spun description.
 
3point14 said:
What's the alternative? This is US politics, there's no middle ground, no quarter given. What would you expect the effect of magnanimity to be?


People voted for Trump because they didn't like the alternative, that's fine. I really don't think, however, that anyone other than Trump and those who voted for him are to 'blame' for his election.

Those who voted for him didn't need to. They didn't actually need to vote for anyone. They chose to expend calories in advancing him towards the White house.



The fact that there seems to be an "I voted for Trump but he isn't my fault" movement at the moment is very telling.
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I'm not calling for any great sacrifice. Just saying that next time:
- don't run a deeply flawed candidate (yes, yes, I agree that she wasn't as flawed as Trump)
- Don't insult the people who aren't already signed up with you

That's simple sales advice. But I guess self-righteous sneering is more fun.
 
Giz said:
I'm not calling for any great sacrifice. Just saying that next time:
- don't run a deeply flawed candidate (yes, yes, I agree that she wasn't as flawed as Trump)
- Don't insult the people who aren't already signed up with you

That's simple sales advice. But I guess self-righteous sneering is more fun.
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The only ones insulted were half of the ones that already signed up for Trump, but for some reason you guys keep spinning it to independents or undecideds. Why?
 
People in the New York City area have been seeing, listening and reading about Trump for over thirty years. I'd say we know him pretty well. Don't blame us if we say, "I told you!"

In the 2016 election here's how Homeboy Don did in NYC.

In the city overall he got about 20% of the vote. In Manhattan, where he has lived for many years, he lost to Clinton 515,000 - 59,000. (When he went to his neighborhood polling place on Election Day, his neighbors standing on line actually booed him.) In Queens, where Trump grew up, where his family lived for generations, he lost 473,000 - 139,000. What does this say about Trump?

As New York Daily News columnist Liz Smith (and she was friends with Trump and his wives for many years) once wrote, "When people first meet Donald they usually seem to like him. Once they begin to get to know him they hate him."

:cool:
 
newyorkguy said:
As New York Daily News columnist Liz Smith (and she was friends with Trump and his wives for many years) once wrote, "When people first meet Donald they usually seem to like him. Once they begin to get to know him they hate him."

:cool:
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Hang on, are you saying that it took Liz Smith many years of being friends to get to know him? If so, she doesn't seem perceptive enough to be worth quoting? (And if not, then she doesn't seem to be honest enough to be worth quoting).
 
Giz said:
Hang on, are you saying that it took Liz Smith many years of being friends to get to know him? If so, she doesn't seem perceptive enough to be worth quoting? (And if not, then she doesn't seem to be honest enough to be worth quoting).
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Yes despite all of Trump's flaws Liz Smith apparently managed to maintain a cordial relationship. One difference was, she was a gossip columnist and Trump, back then as now, loves to be mentioned so I think he tried to stay on her good side, too. Despite the fact Trump probably knew she didn't think much of him and, in all likelihood, Trump didn't really like her either, they managed to remain friends.

It's a little complex, having to do with relationships in the adult world, so if it doesn't make sense to you then you might want to just let it go. ;)
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You don't think the title of that thread might turn people off from bothering? I had no interest in it. Sorry but I don't suck at understanding conservatives, thank you.

How about cutting and pasting your answers, save us a dozen go rounds to get to the answers?

Do you imagine your thread title was a tad hypocritical considering your assertions only the left are rude?
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It wasn't my thread. Perhaps you should take a moment to actually look more closely before you rush to judgement and assume your moral superiority?

As far as verbiage maybe being a turn-off... why don't you go ahead and read your own post a few times, and consider it in light of what has been said by other people in this thread?
 
TragicMonkey said:
Do you think it's possible that people just disagree with you?
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Clearly they disagree with me, and with many others. That is obvious

The reason for the disagreement, however, is what concerns me. It's the presumption that they know someone else's mind and heart better than that person does. It's the presumption that they have so much clearer an understanding of things that they're convinced of their own righteousness and any disagreement with their caricatured interpretation is all wrong.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Clearly they disagree with me, and with many others. That is obvious

The reason for the disagreement, however, is what concerns me. It's the presumption that they know someone else's mind and heart better than that person does. It's the presumption that they have so much clearer an understanding of things that they're convinced of their own righteousness and any disagreement with their caricatured interpretation is all wrong.
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The irony of this post after you have repeated your often corrected 'Clinton insulted half the country' claim is quite humorous.
 
TragicMonkey said:
How would that even work? If people were called deplorable bigots for supporting Trump then they were already supporting Trump when they were called that. Are you both suggesting that Trump supporters would have changed their minds if and only if nobody had called them any bad names? "Oh, I identified as a Trump supporter and was going to vote for Trump but then someone called me a name so I'm changing my mind and doing exactly what I said I would and vote for Trump!"
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That's so incredibly sophomoric and lacking in reason that I don't even know where to begin.

1) There are a monumental volume of independent voters in the US. By "independent" I don't mean individual head count, I mean not associated with one party or another. Middle-of-the-road folks. *Most* voters in the US are not registered with either major party.

2) Neither major party represents all of the views of those independent voters. Each represents a different, and usually non-intersecting set of issues.

3) Those independent voters frequently find themselves juggling competing values. They value some of the ideals of the Democrats, but they also value some of the ideals of the Republicans. In any given election, the decision of who to vote for comes down to a combination of which candidate represents the larger volume of that voter's values AND which candidate is most likely to be able to deliver on those values AND which specific values they feel are most important to them and/or most at jeopardy at that point in time.

4) If one candidate is actively alienating those people, then their value-weight for them will reduce, leading to a shift to the other side.

Failure to call people names isn't necessarily going to win them to your side... but actually calling them names and insulting them is very likely to drive them away.

How can this be so hard for you guys to understand?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Don't forget, Clinton won the popular vote by a very large margin. It wasn't some piddly few thousand votes. In the three states that gave Trump the EC win, his vote was less than 100,000 more than Clinton's.
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This is bad reasoning. If it's considered inappropriate to note that Clinton's popular vote margin was less than the popular vote margin for her in CA, then it's also inappropriate to try to say that Trump only won the EC vote by three states.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Anybody who votes out of spite and hurt feelings is a deplorable bigot. "Waaaah! The smart kids said I was dumb! Well, I'll hold this firecracker in my mouth! That'll show 'em who's dumb! Heh heh heh! I'm smart!"
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And anyone who uses insults, mockery, and derision as a debate tactic is a bully.

FFS, look at all the spite and hurt feelings being tossed around on ISF lately. Which "side" is doing all the tossing? How many people has it won over?
 
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