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Ed Please tell me why you kill

Orion

New Blood
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Joined
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Messages
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Over the years religious ideologies have been the underlying motive for killing thousands of people across the world.

Slaughtering by Islamic Extremists seems to increase. (See attached information). I have become more than used to news reports on war battles, suicide attacks, spree shootings, stabbings, hijackings, kidnappings and even beheading.

I believe that right now somewhere, individuals with extreme religious beliefs are planning to wipe out others, even if it means sacrificing themselves and indiscriminately killing members of their own religious.

Religion is meant to bring love and peace, so I believe. How could anyone justify killing fellow human beings in the name of his god? I don’t know the answer. Would someone, preferably a person involved in or close to this practice, please inform me?

I just want to understand.

ATTACHMENT: LIST OF “ISLAMIST TERRORIST ATTACKS” published by wikipedia encyclopaedia

Edited by Darat: 
Breach of Rule 4 removed.

Orion please re-read your membership agreement especially in regards to Rule 4.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You? What do you mean "you"? Do you suppose there are Jihadists who are forum members?

Why your oddly specific concentration on Islamic terrorism? Your question seemed to set off (correctly in my view) assuming that people of all religions are prepared to kill in the name of their particular set of beliefs.
 
They kill because they think that with terror it will bring the population to pressure the local politician. Exactely the same reason Israeli/Jewish terrorist killed back in the early 20th century, or why french anarchist killed folk, or why brahamist / hinduist did it , or why the guy of the luminous path in sotuh america did it, or why other political/religious killer did all over the world.

The writing themselves do not matter. You will find justification *either way* in all religious or political writing.

This has never been a specificity of Islamist. It just happen to be that this 2 last decades, they were the one doing the most killing.
 
Orion said:
Over the years religious ideologies have been the underlying motive for killing thousands of people across the world.
Click to expand...


I disagree with your premise. Religious ideologies have been the "stated reason" for war and murder throughout human history. That, however, does not mean that they are the cause of it.

The Spanish happily murdered the Aztec people in the name of Catholicism (the Priest at one meeting attempting to convert the locals in Spinish, meeting complete bafflement, and then blessing an attack on them because they were hethens). Romans and Greeks considered those who didn't share their religion to be barbarians, not worthy of rights. Slavery of Africans was frequently defended as a necessity for bringing Christianity to African people who would otherwise not accept it.

For centuries, the Muslim world welcomed practitioners of all religions - Christian, Jews, Zoroastrians, etc. They led the world in paper-making, astronomy, chemistry and more. They kept the Greek masters alive until the Western world rediscovered them. Now they encompass over 1.6 billion people, the overwhelming majority of whom have never even thought about killing anybody.

And the long, long history of terrorism as a means of war is certainly not a Muslim invention. George Custer's greatest victory over the native american tribes came when he outflanked their warriors and grabbed their women and children. He regularly defiled their corpses. His last stand came when he disobeyed orders and tried to go after the tribe's children again.

So it seems at the very least incomplete for you to list murderous acts from just the last two years for just one religion. Please try harder.
 
PLEASE TELL ME WHY YOU KILL

To crush my enemies, to see them driven before me, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
 
baron said:
Which religiously motivated non-Islamic terrorist incidents of 2015 and 2016 do you think should be included?
Click to expand...

You obviously missed the opening line of the thread:

Orion said:
Over the years religious ideologies have been the underlying motive for killing thousands of people across the world............
Click to expand...

Nowhere in the OP is there any mention of 2015 & 2016, other than in the copypasta from Wiki.
 
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If I lived in Nigeria in absolute poverty, and every day I watched French workers pull oil and uranium from the ground, load them onto French trucks, put them on French boats and sail them out of the country to profit French corporations, I wonder how long it would take me to get fed up enough to want to shoot somebody.
 
Orion said:
Religion is meant to bring love and peace, so I believe.
Click to expand...
Two problems with this statement.
1) We don't know 'who' means religion to bring love and peace.
-Who can be anybody: God, the Devil, the religion's human founder, the religion's current leaders, the mythological writer, the common practitioner now, the common practitioner then, or anybody else.
-Mean isn't always equivalent to purpose.
-Maybe religion doesn't mean any one thing.
--This is my belief.

2) YOUR belief doesn't make the statement true.
-The readers of your question may not believe it.
-I don't believe it.
-It seems a little arrogant to assume that your belief is shared
by everyone

3) Memes (transferrable ideas) such as relgion evolve by natural selection that has no purpose.
1) Religious belief as well as rumors replicates itself among people.
2) The copying of religious belief is not exact, so there are variations in religion.
-Much of the variations in religion are random in the sense of being unpredictable, which is the same as having no meaning.
3) Religions are acted on by 'natural selection'
-The survival and growth of a religion is contingent on the environment, which includes other religious people.
4) So given those three assumptions, a religious belief has to evolve very much like an organisms genome.
5) Evolution favors cladogenesis, so there is a large variation of religious belief.
-Beliefs that require the replacement of people with other beliefs can spread very quickly as long as the people who have this belief are a minority.
-Beliefs that require tolerance of other beliefs can also spread quickly, but only so long as THESE people are in a minority.
- So when two populations such as described above start to become equally popular, random variation has to generate a new type of religion that competes with both of the above.
6) Religion can't have any one meaning because it evolves.
-At least half the different forms of religious belief will always require the elimination of those who don't have the same belief.

Orion said:
How could anyone justify killing fellow human beings in the name of his god?
Click to expand...
I believe that your initial assumption are untrue. I believe that my belief means very little. I am sure there are many readers, including you, who would disagree with me. Of course

I suggest that you read Book of Joshua in the Old Testament very carefully. Line by line.

Read the Bible that follows the book of Joshua. Please observe the Hebrews in book of Joshua act very much like ISSIS. Also note that the God of the Hebrews doesn't say the purpose of religion is to spread live and peace.

On the other hand, read the Bible after that. Variations on that old time religion did evolve with the 'purpose' of spreading love and peace. The Hebrew evolved and differentiated in response to the environmental and population pressures of the time. So I would argue that the 'love and peace' species of religion is as stable as 'hate and slaughter' species of religion.

Religion is often about demographics, not 'meaning'.
 
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People killing for religious motives is hardly limited to those practicing the religion of Isam.

For example, that stupid, idiotic, liar President George W. Bush has murdered at least tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands, as well as start up a torture program, and he is proud 'born again Christian'.
 
Darwin123 said:
Two problems with this statement.
1)....

2) ......

3) ......
1) .......
2) .......
-Much of.........
3) .......
-The survival.........
4) ......... three assumptions,.......
5) .......
-Beliefs......
-Beliefs..........
- So ..........
6) .......
-At least half........


......
Click to expand...

:D The most gloriously impenetrable numbering of a post I have ever noticed on here. :bigclap
 
Orion said:
Religion is meant to bring love and peace, so I believe.
Orion said:
Two problems with this statement.
1) We don't know 'who' means religion to bring love and peace.
-Who can be anybody: God, the Devil, the religion's human founder, the religion's current leaders, the mythological writer, the common practitioner now, the common practitioner then, or anybody else.
-Mean isn't always equivalent to purpose.
-Maybe religion doesn't mean any one thing.
--This is my belief.

2) YOUR belief doesn't make the statement true.
-The readers of your question may not believe it.
-I don't believe it.
-It seems a little arrogant to assume that your belief is shared
by everyone

3) Memes (transferrable ideas) such as relgion evolve by natural selection that has no purpose.
1) Religious belief as well as rumors replicates itself among people.
2) The copying of religious belief is not exact, so there are variations in religion.
-Much of the variations in religion are random in the sense of being unpredictable, which is the same as having no meaning.
3) Religions are acted on by 'natural selection'
-The survival and growth of a religion is contingent on the environment, which includes other religious people.
4) So given those three assumptions, a religious belief has to evolve very much like an organisms genome.
5) Evolution favors cladogenesis, so there is a large variation of religious belief.
-Beliefs that require the replacement of people with other beliefs can spread very quickly as long as the people who have this belief are a minority.
-Beliefs that require tolerance of other beliefs can also spread quickly, but only so long as THESE people are in a minority.
- So when two populations such as described above start to become equally popular, random variation has to generate a new type of religion that competes with both of the above.
6) Religion can't have any one meaning because it evolves.
-At least half the different forms of religious belief will always require the elimination of those who don't have the same belief.

Orion said:
How could anyone justify killing fellow human beings in the name of his god?
Orion said:
I believe that your initial assumption are untrue. I believe that my belief means very little. I am sure there are many readers, including you, who would disagree with me. Of course

I suggest that you read Book of Joshua in the Old Testament very carefully. Line by line.

Read the Bible that follows the book of Joshua. Please observe the Hebrews in book of Joshua act very much like ISSIS. Also note that the God of the Hebrews doesn't say the purpose of religion is to spread live and peace.

On the other hand, read the Bible after that. Variations on that old time religion did evolve with the 'purpose' of spreading love and peace. The Hebrew evolved and differentiated in response to the environmental and population pressures of the time. So I would argue that the 'love and peace' species of religion is as stable as 'hate and slaughter' species of religion.

Religion is often about demographics, not 'meaning'.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Orion said:
Over the years religious ideologies have been the underlying motive for killing thousands of people across the world.
Click to expand...
Sure. All of them have, even buddhists of all people. This has been happening for thousands of years. It is the religious norm.

Orion said:
Slaughtering by Islamic Extremists seems to increase.
Click to expand...
At various times in history so did the various branches of christianity. Of course, they got stuffed by secularism and science and contented themselves with mere child abuse since they could only manipulate the most vulnerable.

Orion said:
(See attached information).
Click to expand...
You are singling out Islam. Christianity is just as horrible. Why would you expect any different? Their holy books advocate such horror without shame. Why single out Islam?

Orion said:
I have become more than used to news reports on war battles, suicide attacks, spree shootings, stabbings, hijackings, kidnappings and even beheading.
Click to expand...
Do you mean the muslims such actions, or the christians such actions? Or both? Or all such actions?

Orion said:
I believe that right now somewhere, individuals with extreme religious beliefs are planning to wipe out others, even if it means sacrificing themselves and indiscriminately killing members of their own religious.
Click to expand...
This is not new. Remember the christians at Waco? Or Heavens Gate? Or Jim Jones? Or Westboro Baptist church?

All religions inevitably give rise to wingnuts. Now banned PeaceCrusader advocated all manner of christian nuttery. Current member Paul Bethke claims to be the "End times prophet" and we will all be sorry. Islam has no monopoly on such claims.

Orion said:
Religion is meant to bring love and peace, so I believe.
Click to expand...
The evidence is that it does not.

Orion said:
How could anyone justify killing fellow human beings in the name of his god? I don’t know the answer. Would someone, preferably a person involved in or close to this practice, please inform me?
Click to expand...
I was raised catholic. To me it is pure tribalism. We are all christian but you are the wrong kind of christian and so forth. Once one has religion, one can justify anything. This is why the concept of heresy exists. If you do not believe as I do you are by default a heretic. Once one arrives at that point, it is a trivial step to claim that such heresy must be eliminated by any means lest others be tempted by said heresy.

Orion said:
I just want to understand.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I believe that, because...

Orion said:
ATTACHMENT: LIST OF “ISLAMIST TERRORIST ATTACKS” published by wikipedia encyclopaedia
Click to expand...
If you think only Islam is capable of such abominations. You are wrong. All religions do this.
 
I wouldn't be in the least surprised to find that the OP isn't really interested in our opinions.
 
Religion has been about control since it began. First trying to control nature, then adding control other people, then fight other people who do not follow our magic big guy/gal. Then it got worse. Thus murdering xtians, Then xtians torturing killing jews, xtians and muslims killing/torturing each other, xtians killing other xtians, protestants and catholics killing each other, etc and way to go religion!!!!!!!!

Studying this in classes or quality history book proves this nicely for any who do not want to believe it.
 
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