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My own 9/11 CT: the CIA didn't inform the FBI of al Qaeda members entering the US...

Allen773

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...because if they had done so, the FBI would almost certainly have moved in to arrest them and have them prosecuted in the criminal justice system - just as they had already done so with Ramzi Yousef and most of the other men involved in the 1993 WTC bombing.

"But wait a second, Allen - wouldn't arresting and prosecuting known al Qaeda operatives in the US have unequivocally been a good thing?"

Well, you have to look at this from the perspective of the CIA from before 9/11 to understand why they might have failed to inform the FBI. See, the CIA is not legally allowed to operate within the United States; consequently, their mission exclusively deals with foreign affairs. In that respect, they overlap with the State Department. And both the CIA and the State Department, therefore, do their best to be very sensitive and careful (generally speaking) in regard to building and maintaining relationships with other countries - particularly countries with strong economic and military ties to the US. Countries like Saudi Arabia.

In contrast, the FBI's mission is to investigate and bring to justice people suspected or known to have committed federal crimes. Their jurisdiction is thus within the United States criminal justice system. They are naturally focused on domestic matters, in other words.

From the perspective of the CIA, therefore, even though known al Qaeda operatives entering the US undoubtedly would set of all kinds of alarm bells - and would certainly be seen as a scandalous failure (which after 9/11, obviously turned out to be the case), the FBI moving in to arrest and prosecute said operatives would have dangerously jeopardized the CIA's relationships with Saudi intelligence, as well as broader US-Saudi Arabia relations.

Remember, there is an alarming amount of evidence that at least some people within the Saudi intelligence and foreign affairs ministries - specifically, in the case of al-Hazmi and al-Midhar, the Saudi consulate in Los Los Angeles (if I recall correctly) - assisted the 9/11 hijackers and al-Qaeda more broadly. And the Kingdom's funding - both directly and indirectly - of the same kind of hard-line, violently intolerant form of Islam from which al-Qaeda (led by the prominent Saudi Osama bin Laden and consisting in large part of Saudi-born operatives, including 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers) sprung from is both infamous and extensively documented.

In light of all of this, the US government - and especially the CIA and the State Department - had to tread very carefully when it came to dealing with the Saudi government. And the CIA simply didn't trust the FBI to not jeopardize the entire relationship - including what little cooperation the Saudis were offering in the CIA's fight against al-Qaeda pre-9/11, as well as the potential for any cooperation in the future, for that matter.

Is a lot of this speculative and ultimately, not provable? Of course it is. But certainly no more so than any other of the 9/11 CT's, and I'd like to think that I have more real evidence to back up at least some of these speculations. :rolleyes: Obviously though, I don't know any of this for sure, and I'm perfectly OK with admitting that.
 
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I've got bad news for your CT career: realistic conspiracy theories don't sell. You have to spice it up with Hollywood-like elements: remotely controlled planes, ninja arsonists, bombs, missiles, fighter jets...

Sorry, couldn't resist.
 
...because if they had done so, the FBI would almost certainly have moved in to arrest them and have them prosecuted in the criminal justice system - just as they had already done so with Ramzi Yousef and most of the other men involved in the 1993 WTC bombing.

Which al Qaeda members?

Arrest and prosecute them for what?
 
Al Qaeda can be described as a renegade faction of Saudi Wahabbism, and as such, the relationship between the House of Saud and AQ is ambiguous - AQ is offspring from Saud's loin, OBL the delinquent son who raised his hand against his parents. They must defend against him, punish him, and yet they'd naturally feel inclined to protect him from attack by outsiders.

I don't know that prosecuting AQ operatives - assuming there were viable legal grounds - would have strained US-Saudi relations so much that it wouldn't have been worth preventing a major terrorist attack (even if perhaps the magnitude had not been expected). The USS Cole attack (October 2000) was fresh on everyone's memory and high on the CIA's list of priorities. It should not have terribly difficult to "sell" to the Saudi government that AQ members on US soil be apprehended and stopped.
 
I've got bad news for your CT career: realistic conspiracy theories don't sell. You have to spice it up with Hollywood-like elements: remotely controlled planes, ninja arsonists, bombs, missiles, fighter jets...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Dang it! And I had just finished the final draft of my book, Debunking the Disinfo Agents: The Real 9/11 Conspiracy!

Plan B: Make a grainy, poorly edited YouTube video featuring out-of-context quotes of elected officials and government bureaucrats, ominous narration (which would, of course, be full of bad-faith accusations/concern trolling/JAQ), and expert commentary from David Ray Griffin, Richard Gage, and...you get the idea. :boxedin:
 
You need a couple strontium Cobalt F3 fusion bombs. Magno nukes the Minnie nukes Idea is too small.
 
19 terrorists did 9/11, now 17 did it? We could do a Clownstick thing, and arrest and deport them all...

And then there is McVeigh... wonder if paloalto knew Tim was going to do OKC.
 
I've got bad news for your CT career: realistic conspiracy theories don't sell. You have to spice it up with Hollywood-like elements: remotely controlled planes, ninja arsonists, bombs, missiles, fighter jets...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I have to agree. Allen's CT is almost plausible. He needs to think of a more intricately absurd plan with dozens of moving parts so only internet sleuths will be able to figure it out....because it's obvious.
 
Dang it! And I had just finished the final draft of my book, Debunking the Disinfo Agents: The Real 9/11 Conspiracy!

Plan B: Make a grainy, poorly edited YouTube video featuring out-of-context quotes of elected officials and government bureaucrats, ominous narration (which would, of course, be full of bad-faith accusations/concern trolling/JAQ), and expert commentary from David Ray Griffin, Richard Gage, and...you get the idea. :boxedin:

Needs a good visual, ala WTC7 collapsing - with the penthouse part beforehand cut out, because that would distract from your message, and confuse the simple.
 
...because if they had done so, the FBI would almost certainly have moved in to arrest them and have them prosecuted in the criminal justice system - just as they had already done so with Ramzi Yousef and most of the other men involved in the 1993 WTC bombing.

"But wait a second, Allen - wouldn't arresting and prosecuting known al Qaeda operatives in the US have unequivocally been a good thing?"

Well, you have to look at this from the perspective of the CIA from before 9/11 to understand why they might have failed to inform the FBI. See, the CIA is not legally allowed to operate within the United States; consequently, their mission exclusively deals with foreign affairs. In that respect, they overlap with the State Department. And both the CIA and the State Department, therefore, do their best to be very sensitive and careful (generally speaking) in regard to building and maintaining relationships with other countries - particularly countries with strong economic and military ties to the US. Countries like Saudi Arabia.

In contrast, the FBI's mission is to investigate and bring to justice people suspected or known to have committed federal crimes. Their jurisdiction is thus within the United States criminal justice system. They are naturally focused on domestic matters, in other words.

From the perspective of the CIA, therefore, even though known al Qaeda operatives entering the US undoubtedly would set of all kinds of alarm bells - and would certainly be seen as a scandalous failure (which after 9/11, obviously turned out to be the case), the FBI moving in to arrest and prosecute said operatives would have dangerously jeopardized the CIA's relationships with Saudi intelligence, as well as broader US-Saudi Arabia relations.

Remember, there is an alarming amount of evidence that at least some people within the Saudi intelligence and foreign affairs ministries - specifically, in the case of al-Hazmi and al-Midhar, the Saudi consulate in Los Los Angeles (if I recall correctly) - assisted the 9/11 hijackers and al-Qaeda more broadly. And the Kingdom's funding - both directly and indirectly - of the same kind of hard-line, violently intolerant form of Islam from which al-Qaeda (led by the prominent Saudi Osama bin Laden and consisting in large part of Saudi-born operatives, including 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers) sprung from is both infamous and extensively documented.

In light of all of this, the US government - and especially the CIA and the State Department - had to tread very carefully when it came to dealing with the Saudi government. And the CIA simply didn't trust the FBI to not jeopardize the entire relationship - including what little cooperation the Saudis were offering in the CIA's fight against al-Qaeda pre-9/11, as well as the potential for any cooperation in the future, for that matter.

Is a lot of this speculative and ultimately, not provable? Of course it is. But certainly no more so than any other of the 9/11 CT's, and I'd like to think that I have more real evidence to back up at least some of these speculations. :rolleyes: Obviously though, I don't know any of this for sure, and I'm perfectly OK with admitting that.

Almost plausible, though not the true reason. The main reason that the CIA didn't tell was because they believed that the two would provide them with the ability to get a person inside of Al Qaeda, something that hadn't been even close to possible prior to then, and they didn't want the FBI charging in boots and all and arresting them for the Cole and ruining what they were considering their best opportunity at infiltration.
 
Needs more Illuminati and Dancing Jews on the Pentagon.

Here's a tip: Say that half of the Israelian population travelled to NYC on 10 september, so that they could dance on top of the Pentagon one day later.

Oh, and add that all the towers were blown up with SCCD's (Silent Cloaked Controlled Demolitions), 50 were used, while bazooka and nuclear bombs were thrown at Ground Zero. And try to link the nuclear bomb thing to that idiotic emergency "plan" that the Pentagon came up with in 2014. :mgduh
 
...because if they had done so, the FBI would almost certainly have moved in to arrest them and have them prosecuted in the criminal justice system - just as they had already done so with Ramzi Yousef and most of the other men involved in the 1993 WTC bombing.

"But wait a second, Allen - wouldn't arresting and prosecuting known al Qaeda operatives in the US have unequivocally been a good thing?"

Well, you have to look at this from the perspective of the CIA from before 9/11 to understand why they might have failed to inform the FBI. See, the CIA is not legally allowed to operate within the United States; consequently, their mission exclusively deals with foreign affairs. In that respect, they overlap with the State Department. And both the CIA and the State Department, therefore, do their best to be very sensitive and careful (generally speaking) in regard to building and maintaining relationships with other countries - particularly countries with strong economic and military ties to the US. Countries like Saudi Arabia.

In contrast, the FBI's mission is to investigate and bring to justice people suspected or known to have committed federal crimes. Their jurisdiction is thus within the United States criminal justice system. They are naturally focused on domestic matters, in other words.

From the perspective of the CIA, therefore, even though known al Qaeda operatives entering the US undoubtedly would set of all kinds of alarm bells - and would certainly be seen as a scandalous failure (which after 9/11, obviously turned out to be the case), the FBI moving in to arrest and prosecute said operatives would have dangerously jeopardized the CIA's relationships with Saudi intelligence, as well as broader US-Saudi Arabia relations.

Remember, there is an alarming amount of evidence that at least some people within the Saudi intelligence and foreign affairs ministries - specifically, in the case of al-Hazmi and al-Midhar, the Saudi consulate in Los Los Angeles (if I recall correctly) - assisted the 9/11 hijackers and al-Qaeda more broadly. And the Kingdom's funding - both directly and indirectly - of the same kind of hard-line, violently intolerant form of Islam from which al-Qaeda (led by the prominent Saudi Osama bin Laden and consisting in large part of Saudi-born operatives, including 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers) sprung from is both infamous and extensively documented.

In light of all of this, the US government - and especially the CIA and the State Department - had to tread very carefully when it came to dealing with the Saudi government. And the CIA simply didn't trust the FBI to not jeopardize the entire relationship - including what little cooperation the Saudis were offering in the CIA's fight against al-Qaeda pre-9/11, as well as the potential for any cooperation in the future, for that matter.

Is a lot of this speculative and ultimately, not provable? Of course it is. But certainly no more so than any other of the 9/11 CT's, and I'd like to think that I have more real evidence to back up at least some of these speculations. :rolleyes: Obviously though, I don't know any of this for sure, and I'm perfectly OK with admitting that.

Almost plausible, though not the true reason. The main reason that the CIA didn't tell was because they believed that the two would provide them with the ability to get a person inside of Al Qaeda, something that hadn't been even close to possible prior to then, and they didn't want the FBI charging in boots and all and arresting them for the Cole and ruining what they were considering their best opportunity at infiltration.

Correct.

 

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