Brexit: Now What? Part II

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Lothian said:
It works for Tiny Islands who can massively increase their number of taxpayers. For the UK I really doubt it, but it is a Tory policy (having the lowest CT rates in Europe). It is also what the "libertarian" element of Brexit want. Cut taxes, Privatise (introduce patient charges to) the NHS etc.
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It can work for the economy of any size, if it has already unusually large taxes and if the expectations are small enough.

Clearly neither is the case for UK.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
It can work for the economy of any size, if it has already unusually large taxes and if the expectations are small enough.

Clearly neither is the case for UK.

McHrozni
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Small countries who benefit do so simply by parasitising on the economies of the larger ones, by shifting the tax burden in these countries from the rich to the less well off, and skimming off a fee for the service rendered to the rich.
 
Craig B said:
Small countries who benefit do so simply by parasitising on the economies of the larger ones, by shifting the tax burden in these countries from the rich to the less well off, and skimming off a fee for the service rendered to the rich.
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Well yes, you could also put it this way.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
Yes, I agree. Small countries can benefit immensely, large countries ... somewhat at best.

McHrozni
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Yes, IIRC Ireland did pretty well by lowering its corporate tax rates. Of course it helped having a well-educated, (mainly) English speaking, workforce, membership of the EU and an enormous amount of goodwill towards the country from people in the world's largest economy.

That didn't insulate Ireland against the effects of the crash and in response the UK lowered its corporate tax rates to help attract businesses back to the UK.
 
The Don said:
That didn't insulate Ireland against the effects of the crash and in response the UK lowered its corporate tax rates to help attract businesses back to the UK.
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On a national level the cunning plan fails when there is retaliation. But if you have a personal wealth that is benefiting significantly from Tax cuts, who cares if a country goes to pot, you can afford to move.
 
Lothian said:
On a national level the cunning plan fails when there is retaliation. But if you have a personal wealth that is benefiting significantly from Tax cuts, who cares if a country goes to pot, you can afford to move.
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Oh yes, those who are going to benefit for sure are the rich individuals and corporations enjoying lower tax rates.
 
McHrozni said:
Number 2. appears twice, you actually listed five options.

None of these options are going to work by themselves, you need a combination of these five plus the sixth mentioned, an increase in pension age. Keeping people well past their prime employed will impact productivity though.

I'd also like to mention that option 1. is temporary, but it takes decades for it to backfire. Immigrants get old too, and eventually they'll request their well-earned pensions. You can't just continually increase the working population.

I would also add option 7. establish a framework of benefits that will lead to higher birth rates. This is similar to option 1., weaker because it is more expensive and because it takes decades to have any effect, but also stronger because it's less controversial (deplorables won't mind new people of their ethnic group).

I'd say about five of these seven possibilities need to work.

There is also an option 8., deregulate standards to the point average life expectancy falls to about 70. Massive increase in tobacco usage could do that. This one rises a fairly severe ethical dilemma though.

All eight combined will still be overwhelmed by a triple lock eventually though. That's how bad that policy is.

McHrozni
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Agreed that we need a combination of them except that raising birth rates is a big issue for the planet much better to encourage free movement and option 8 seems too unethical to consider.
 
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Craig B said:
They were told that remaining in the UK was the only way of remaining in the EU. What effect did that have on their Indyref vote?
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Don't know. But believing and/or voting for/with the Tories is a pretty sure fire way to ensure you don't have much sympathy from me when the inevitable happens.
 
So the commons Brexit committee has produced its first report:

Brexit: MPs urge May to clarify trade aims before talks

Theresa May must spell out whether she wants the UK to remain in the single market and customs union, before Brexit talks begin, MPs have said.
The Commons Brexit committee said the PM should "declare her position" by the middle of February to allow sufficient time for scrutiny.
In its first report, it said MPs must get a vote on the final deal and backed having an interim deal if needed.
In response, the government said its goal was a "smooth and orderly exit".
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In its debut report, the cross-party select committee on leaving the EU - set up in the wake of last year's Brexit vote - made a number of other recommendations, including:
The rights of EU nationals in the UK and vice versa must be an "early priority" in talks
Parliament and devolved assemblies must be kept "fully informed" once talks begin
Border arrangements between Northern Ireland and the Republic must be settled
The civil service must be "properly resourced" to deliver Brexit
Co-operation in defence, security and justice should continue
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So pretty much everything that May was afraid of when she fought to avoid having to submit to parliamentary scrutiny. Those bothersome MPs are trying to force her to produce a deal that works for everyone and not just her Little Englander Brexiteers.
 
It seems that Theresa May has moved on from a "Red, white and blue Brexit" to a "Global Britain Brexit" if this BBC report has any truth behind it:

Theresa May is expected to reveal the most detailed insight yet into her approach to Brexit negotiations, in a speech on Tuesday.

She will urge people to give up on "insults" and "division" and unite to build a "global Britain".

Downing Street said reports she may signal pulling out of the single market and customs union were "speculation".

It comes as the chancellor said the UK could "change its economic model" if it loses access to the single market.
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But it's OK losing our easy access to the largest economic bloc in the world - because we'll have a trade deal with New Zealand.

Her desire to control immigration suggested giving up the UK's existing membership of the single market, he added, while her enthusiasm for trade deals with countries such as New Zealand implied leaving the customs union.
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Look, I like New Zealanders and have consumed a fair amount of their Sauvignon Blanc and Pinot Noir over the years but I don't think they're in the position to fill any tade void caused by leaving the EEA and customs union :mad:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38626293

I'm convinved that May is a dogmatic out-out-outer and will ensure that Brexit is as painful as possible to trigger the "Dunkirk spirit" and make herself the saviour of England


Edited to add..

Meanwhile Corbyn is doing his usual rubbish job of being leader of the opposition...

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has previously said he supports "reasonable management" of immigration but insists it must be set against continued access to European markets for British businesses.
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Way to muddy the water Jezza when what is required is a clearly communicated alternative to the "May madness"
 
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Lothian said:
There is another option. We could become an even bigger tax haven than we currently are. At the moment the world is working together to reduce tax havens and make corporate businesses pay their fair share. We could buck the trend, tear up agreements and offer large corps and rich people minimal tax rates. Lots of small sums add up to a big one. But even if it fails, the people funding Brexit like Aaron Banks will be loads better off and won't have the inconvenience of having his companies off shore.
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Where is that $1 million

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....outside-single-market-could-become-tax-haven?
 
Aepervius said:
Way to go, start an economic war with your next neighbors while you want to have strong economical pact with the other side of the earth.

(and you can bet the rest of the goodwill from anybody in continental EU will vanish in a puff of smoke, so I am thinking tourism may suffers as well).
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Hammond's desperation is manifesting itself as unprincipled swinishness. He's probably thinking: tourists still visit Liechtenstein, so abandoning social legislation with its irksome
European-style taxation systems, European-style regulation systems​
and being an unregulated tax haven instead won't affect anything we consider important.

But we have reached a sad situation when what was an Empire when I was born is now reduced to a participant in a mud wrestling competition with Liechtenstein. As with Wordsworth's poem on the fall of Venice
Once did She hold the gorgeous east in fee​
and now
... even the Shade
Of that which once was great, is passed away.​
But hey, who cares, as long as you can make a living running fiscal scams?
 
Craig B said:
Hammond's desperation is manifesting itself as unprincipled swinishness. He's probably thinking: tourists still visit Liechtenstein, so abandoning social legislation with its irksome
European-style taxation systems, European-style regulation systems​
and being an unregulated tax haven instead won't affect anything we consider important.

But we have reached a sad situation when what was an Empire when I was born is now reduced to a participant in a mud wrestling competition with Liechtenstein. As with Wordsworth's poem on the fall of Venice
Once did She hold the gorgeous east in fee​
and now
... even the Shade
Of that which once was great, is passed away.​
But hey, who cares, as long as you can make a living running fiscal scams?
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The US has been working with the EU to stop profit tax avoidance, BEPS. I don't think they would look favourably or favorably on the UK lowering rates to a level that not only attracts EU profits but US profits as well. indeed it looks a good way to piss off any new trading partners.
 
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Aepervius said:
Way to go, start an economic war with your next neighbors while you want to have strong economical pact with the other side of the earth.

(and you can bet the rest of the goodwill from anybody in continental EU will vanish in a puff of smoke, so I am thinking tourism may suffers as well).
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I talk to people who would welcome a ban on European tourists. They complaint when they meet French and German people on a day out in Whitby or visit Fountains Abbey or similar. Almost as though the Britishness of the place is defiled by the feet and even presence of any Europeans.
 
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"Well what I think doesn't matter on this topic that you just asked me about even though I'm the spokesdufus for the Government"

Seems to be the message.
 
Sheffield? That's almost Nottinghamshire or Derbyshire.
 
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The UK may be forced to change its "economic model" if it is locked out of the single market after Brexit, Chancellor Philip Hammond has said.

Mr Hammond said the government would not "lie down" and would "do whatever we have to do" to remain competitive.

He had been asked by a German newspaper if the UK could become a "tax haven" by further lowering corporation tax.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38628428

So, Tax Haven it is then.
 
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