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US Officially Blames Russia

BobTheCoward said:
What part do you claim is treason?
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Cohen and Manafort aiding in and knowingly working to benefit from Russian espionage, passing information back and forth. This included direct meetings and discussions with Kermlin 'representatives and associated operators/hackers'. (If those papers are correct.)
 
tyr_13 said:
Cohen and Manafort aiding in and knowingly working to benefit from Russian espionage, passing information back and forth. This included direct meetings and discussions with Kermlin 'representatives and associated operators/hackers'. (If those papers are correct.)
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Okay. So not treason because not our enemy. But ignoring that for now.

What part of that is not actually allowed and why?
 
BobTheCoward said:
Okay. So not treason because not our enemy. But ignoring that for now.

What part of that is not actually allowed and why?
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The 'paying people to commit crimes' is, in and of itself, a crime. Not reporting such is also, if I remember correctly, a crime.
 
Stacko said:
ETA: It's almost too perfectly lurid. He allegedly hired prostitutes for a “golden shower” party on Ritz Moscow bed where Obama/Michelle slept. I wouldn't put it past him but he's a well known germophobe.

ETA2: "Trumped-up trickle down" is now a much better line than when it was used in the debates.
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Yes, probably too good to be true. However, urine is sterile.
 
BobTheCoward said:
But just a crime....Not treason?
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No, I'm thinking it's treason. I'm trying to look up the definition of 'enemy' as it pertains to 18 U.S. Code § 2381.


EDIT: Ah, right. 'Enemy' means 'country at war with'. Russia doesn't currently qualify.
 
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tyr_13 said:
No, I'm thinking it's treason. I'm trying to look up the definition of 'enemy' as it pertains to 18 U.S. Code § 2381.
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Let's establish the upper and lower bounds. What country would definitely be treason and which ones would just be illegal?
 
The document only says a 'golden showers' (urination) show was performed, it doesn't say he personally got peed on.

Let's not get distracted by the details like junior high kids, please?
 
Delphic Oracle said:
The document only says a 'golden showers' (urination) show was performed, it doesn't say he personally got peed on.

Let's not get distracted by the details like junior high kids, please?
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Right now, all we have to go on are the details in the papers themselves as far as believably of them.

It's not a lot to go on, and while it's not going to be enough to conclude 'these are real', it might make us lean that way, and could be debunked making us reject them as true unless further information is provided.

Not like we can do much else on them.

EDIT: Besides working on the image data itself, which isn't providing me with much yet.

EDIT2: Well, besides the words under the paper are in fact the next page photographed, so doesn't look like more information will be gotten there. Working on seeing if I can extract EXIF data and if the redacted parts will be readable from when they were the underpage.

EDIT3: Nope, physical redaction.
 
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Delphic Oracle said:
Well, the news moves fast.

Buzzfeed has published the 35 pages in question:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html
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As I understand it, anyone can post documents on documentcloud. Is this true? I'm skeptical; there is just too much certainty in them. Admittedly I've never actually read real intelligence documents, but I would expect that they would contain qualifiers and indications of the known credibility of the sources of various claims.
 
Let's not forget what Russia has said about this publically.

The Russian government was in touch with members of President-elect Donald Trump's campaign staff during the U.S. election campaign, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told the Interfax news agency on Thursday.

"There were contacts," Interfax cited Ryabkov as saying. He did not give details.

When asked whether these contacts would now intensify after Trump's election victory, Ryabkov said: "These working moments and follow-up on this or that matter will depend on the situation and the questions which face us. But we will of course continue this work after the elections."
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TellyKNeasuss said:
As I understand it, anyone can post documents on documentcloud. Is this true? I'm skeptical; there is just too much certainty in them. Admittedly I've never actually read real intelligence documents, but I would expect that they would contain qualifiers and indications of the known credibility of the sources of various claims.
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These are purportedly documents created by a former MI6 agent who was hired to dig up dirt on Trump by various other candidates during the course of the campaign season.

Again 'unnamed' intelligence officials claim these sources were identified and considered reliable and they now have independent corroborations (if I understand CNN's claims correctly).

So Harry Reid's letter blasting Comey alludes to damning evidence prompting some outlets to investigate what he was hinting at. Mother Jones finds out about the MI6 agent's reports. Now summaries of those reports are appearing in classified briefings, which may indicate they have been vetted and considered authentic enough to include in official briefs.
 
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