President Trump

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Fast Eddie B said:
We didn't.

We had a high deductible plan that we were happy with, to the tune of just over $300/month. In Georgia, the cheapest qualifying Bronze Plan was over $1,300 for the two of us.

I went on Medicare, complicating things, but Karen's alone would now be about $700/month without subsidies.

So, we could not keep our plan, nor would we have saved $2,500/yr.

Our only question was Obama just naive in his predictions or did he intentionally mislead? I really don't see a third option.
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"You can keep your plan" was something Obama began saying from the start, before details were worked out, because the bill would have a provision that existing plans could be "grandfathered in" even if they didn't meet the minimum standards set by the bill. What the bill didn't do, however, was require insurance companies to continue offering those same bargain/low-coverage plans after the law went into effect, and you can't keep a plan that isn't offered any more. As it turns out, this "loophole" affected about 2% of Americans because the greedy insurance companies figured out that it was to their advantage to let those plans go and force people to buy more expensive plans. Now, it is true that once that problem became apparent, Obama tried to say that that was what he had been saying all along, which was disingenuous.

BTW, Kellyanne Conway is making a similar promise now, that nobody will lose coverage if Obamacare is repealed without replacement, but that's subject to the same condition: You won't be able to keep a plan that's discontinued by your insurance company, and repealing without replacing will send the industry into a mad scramble in the face of uncertainty to make sure they don't lose money.
 
WilliamSeger said:
BTW, Kellyanne Conway is making a similar promise now, that nobody will lose coverage if Obamacare is repealed without replacement, but that's subject to the same condition: You won't be able to keep a plan that's discontinued by your insurance company, and repealing without replacing will send the industry into a mad scramble in the face of uncertainty to make sure they don't lose money.
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I've never seen another person who spews more verbal liquid **** than Kellyanne Conway. At some point she's got to say, "Look, I can't keep this up any more."
 
alfaniner said:
I've never seen another person who spews more verbal liquid **** than Kellyanne Conway. At some point she's got to say, "Look, I can't keep this up any more."
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What makes you think that ? IMO spin doctors are like barristers, they don't have to sympathise with or agree with their clients, they just have to put forward their clients' cases to the best of their ability and allow the jury to decide.

Spin doctors are the same though in this case 80-90% of the "jury" have made up their minds one way or another already. The spin doctor (les hommes des ormes in French - men of the shadows - though I've probably rendered it in Franglais :o) has to keep their 40-45% on side and persuade enough of the undecideds.Whether it's true or not is, as has repeatedly been shown, irrelevant.
 
Reheat said:
Of course it's subjective. Trump is a BS'er. Most people even his supporters recognize that. On the other hand Hillary is a pathological liar of the first order regarding important issues. That's one of the primary reasons she lost.
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I am sorry but the BS'er in this case *IS* the pathological liar. I am not sure you can say the same for Clinton except for maybe 2 or 3 themes, when Trump keep dancing around issue telling the person he faces at the moment what she wants to hear, more or less. THAT is the definition of pathological liar.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Why should you, or the government, decide what's a "problem" for me or not?
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Because the government (aka taxpayers) and people paying for health insurance were covering the bad debt that the uninsured were leaving unpaid.

Nothing in the ACA directly eliminated your past policy option. Obama didn't get enough input from private insurers which is where the changed policies were initiated. However, another reason some of these plans disappeared was that they were subject to more scrutiny.

Some low cost high deductible insurance policies turned out to be scam deals though I don't know if that means all of them.

The Many Hidden Costs of High-Deductible Health Insurance
Even if you can afford the costs, the loopholes that insurers often weave into these plans to reduce premiums can mean that even after your deductible is met, you may not have the coverage you need to handle a serious illness or accident....

If the premium looks too good to be true, look for one of these lurking loopholes:
A cap on lifetime coverage....
A cap on doctor visits. ...
A cap on hospitalization costs. ...
Other high out-of-pocket costs. Just because you have met your deductible doesn’t mean you are done spending money. High co-payments of 20 percent or more on doctors’ visits, prescription drugs and hospitalizations can add up quickly. With some of these policies, Mr. Claxton says, you will pay an extraordinary amount in out-of-pocket costs, sometimes as much as $10,000.
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So like the uninsured, the under-insured again costs the rest of us money. You may not have as an individual, but your insurer might have. In addition, after the ACA, many of these low cost high deductible insurers went out of business, leaving the persons who had paid premiums unable to use the insurance when they needed it.

Fast Eddie B said:
I just wanted to confirm that, yes, some people were not able to "keep their plans" - it was implied that was made up.
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People who were uninsured or under-insured and not yet ill were essentially gambling with other people's money the same way an uninsured driver is gambling with other driver's money.

The Obama administration has not spent enough effort educating the public about these issues, all the while the simple slogan, repeal and replace, was easily repeated every time a GOP legislator opened their mouth.
 
WilliamSeger said:
... What the bill didn't do, however, was require insurance companies to continue offering those same bargain/low-coverage plans after the law went into effect, and you can't keep a plan that isn't offered any more. As it turns out, this "loophole" affected about 2% of Americans because the greedy insurance companies figured out that it was to their advantage to let those plans go and force people to buy more expensive plans. Now, it is true that once that problem became apparent,
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This plus the fact some of those policies got more scrutiny, another reason to drop the plans and charge more. That plus the subsidies meant people had more money to spend on premiums.

WilliamSeger said:
...BTW, Kellyanne Conway is making a similar promise now, that nobody will lose coverage if Obamacare is repealed without replacement, but that's subject to the same condition: You won't be able to keep a plan that's discontinued by your insurance company, and repealing without replacing will send the industry into a mad scramble in the face of uncertainty to make sure they don't lose money.
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Trump Inc is good at making people believe promises Trump has no plans to keep. Chances are good we're all going to get screwed by the health insurance industry as the GOP moves to deregulate just about everything.

Take a look at Kentucky to get a preview of things to come.
 
The Don said:
What makes you think that ? IMO spin doctors are like barristers, they don't have to sympathise with or agree with their clients, they just have to put forward their clients' cases to the best of their ability and allow the jury to decide....
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It's easier when alt-right was your POV in the first place.

Mother Jones: Long Before Trump, Kellyanne Conway Worked for Anti-Muslim and Anti-Immigrant Extremists
And helped spread some really ugly memes while doing so. ...
Conway—a pollster best known for helping GOP candidates appeal to women—has her own ties to anti-Muslim conspiracy theorists and nativist opponents of immigration. ...
To justify his proposal, [Trump] cited a flawed poll from June 2015 that portrayed American Muslims as increasingly radical. According to this poll, 51 percent of Muslims in the United States believe they should have the choice to be governed by Shariah law (Islamic religious law) instead of US laws, and nearly 20 percent believe "the use of violence in the United States is justified in order to make Shariah the law of the land in this country."

Conway's firm, The Polling Company, conducted this poll for the Center for Security Policy, a think tank run by Frank Gaffney, a former Reagan administration defense official. Gaffney is a right-wing extremist who frequently pushes wild conspiracy theories and has often been at odds with other conservative leaders. He's claimed there is "mounting evidence" that President Barack Obama is a secret Muslim; alleged that Hillary Clinton aide Huma Abedin has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood (Gaffney's think tank claimed Abedin is one of six Muslim Brotherhood operatives working inside the Obama administration); and suggested the federal government, the media, and the financial sector have all been infiltrated by "Shariah-adherent" Muslims. (One of Gaffney's Islamophobic themes is conflating radicalism with adherence to Islamic religious law)....
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That's some scary stuff.
 
Trump Just Dismissed the People in Charge of Maintaining Our Nuclear Arsenal

Between the Trump transition team’s infighting, incompetence, and high-profile resignations, any decisions that signaled even a modicum of stability for the country would come as a relief at this point. Unfortunately, the nascent Trump Administration isn’t inclined to calm anyone’s nerves. According to an official within the Department of Energy, this past Friday, the President-elect’s team instructed the head of the National Nuclear Security Administration and his deputy to clean out their desks when Trump takes office on January 20th.

The NNSA is the $12 billion-a-year agency that “maintains and enhances the safety, security, and effectiveness of the U.S. nuclear weapons stockpile.” It’s unclear when the two officials will be replaced.

Traditionally, all political appointees of an outgoing presidential administration turn in resignation letters effective on noon of inauguration day, January 20. But appointees in key positions—like the people who make sure our nukes work—are often asked to stay on in their roles until a replacement can be found and confirmed by the Senate, helping ensure a smooth transition and allowing our government to continue functioning. In fact, for the entirety of Obama’s first term and into part of his second, the NNSA Administrator remained a Bush appointee.
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alfaniner said:
I've never seen another person who spews more verbal liquid **** than Kellyanne Conway. At some point she's got to say, "Look, I can't keep this up any more."
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Well, she did say

"And he's telling you what was in his heart. You always want to go by what's come out of his mouth rather than look at what's in his heart."
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Would it be possible to get as many celebrities as possible to tweet bad things about Trump such that he's too busy replying all the time to do anything whatsoever his entire term?
 
Having recently read Command and Control, about the near-nuclear disaster at Damascus, this is very concerning. All it takes is one little event (such as a dropped bolt) to set of a chain reaction that puts us seconds from disaster.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Would it be possible to get as many celebrities as possible to tweet bad things about Trump such that he's too busy replying all the time to do anything whatsoever his entire term?
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The fact I pondered your idea for a moment and could find no immediate flaw has me shaking my head in wonder.

There are interesting times ahead.
 
WilliamSeger said:
And I wouldn't expect anything from you except another idiotic false equivalence, without anything remotely resembling a rational argument. What are you trying to say? Obama was wrong about "keep your plan" so it's okay that DJT is a sociopathic liar? Or just that Obama is a Democrat so no Democrat is allowed to state the obvious fact that DJT is a sociopathic liar? As I was just discussing with Reheat, I get that you don't care that DJT is a sociopathic liar, but why am I not allowed to?

And anyway, do you even know anything about "keep your plan," who didn't get to keep their plan, and why?
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Interesting. Chris B.
 
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