Merged Jeffrey MacDonald did it. He really did.

[byn63]

there was no "Stoeckley Killer Gang". There WAS a pathetic, attention seeking, drug abuser, with a daddy complex who inserted herself into a case for the attention but she was not really involved.

 

[BStrong]

The FBI needs to up its game. It's just the same in the JonBenet Ramsey case with that stupid FBI media campaign to make the innocent Ramseys falsely confess. Most Americans don't seem to have an abstract sense of justice. They only seem to be interested in attacking Iran along with Israel and the CIA, which is a violation of the rule of law.

Butch Madden of the FBI seems to have been given the job of discrediting Detective Beasley and Gunderson and Helena Stoeckley, and clearing the suspects in the MacDonald case. He died around the time of that evidentiary hearing in 2012. Those investigation of suspects by Madden were hardly thoroughly and properly completed. It was pathetic police work.

Bolded translated:

"Nobody takes my assertions as fact."

Beasley and Gunderson ruined their credibility all on there own.

 

[byn63]

I am curious "abstract sense of justice" does that translate to "nobody believes my ridiculous claims that have no evidence to support them?"

That is what it seems like to me.....

 

[desmirelle]

Butch Madden of the FBI seems to have been given the job of discrediting Detective Beasley and Gunderson and Helena Stoeckley, and clearing the suspects in the MacDonald case. He died around the time of that evidentiary hearing in 2012. Those investigation of suspects by Madden were hardly thoroughly and properly completed. It was pathetic police work.

God, I hope Madden had a good book, those three were busy discrediting THEMSELVES, they didn't need his help!

CITE YOUR EXPERTISE IN POLICE WORK, GIVE US YOUR CV (QUALIFICATIONS). Then you can properly deem it pathetic. Otherwise, it's another case of you wanting it to be true, so it must be.

You seem to be the only poster on this thread who lacks an understanding of police investigations. You do not even seem to realize that state and federal crimes do not involve the same set of law enforcement officials. You seem to believe your opinion should outweigh facts; that EVERYONE BUT YOU is wrong. You can't cite an expert who pronounced the documentation placing Mazzerole in prison is a forgery, it took you ages to admit JTF wasn't going to get the citation from you BECAUSE IT DIDNT EXIST.

 

[byn63]

desi - I've asked at various different boards multiple times (too many to count) for henri or any or his alter egos to provide us with his curricula vitae.....its been so long.....longer even then it took him to admit there is no evidence to back up his mutterings. LOL, let us not hold our breath.....

 

[JTF]

Rinse And Repeat

HENRIBOY: It took several months for you to admit that no lab documentation exists that sources a known intruder suspect to this crime, yet you now hide behind your old chestnut regarding the lack of a "proper" investigation. Like always, you fail to provide documentation that backs your dubious assertions.

For the past decade plus, your talking points on multiple true crime forums consist entirely of innuendo and opinion. In addition, your points of emphasis are not shared by a majority of MacDonald advocates. This man on an island thought process demonstrates that you don't truly believe in MacDonald's innocence.

How do I know that? Well, if you were a true advocate, you would focus on the documented record rather than delve in hyperbole. Since there is NO chance that you will suddenly embrace critical thought, I challenge you to provide documentation that proves that the CID and FBI did not investigate ALL of the viable intruder suspects in this case.

Considering the depth and scope of the CID's 4 year reinvestigation and the FBI's 3 year investigation into suspects not named Jeffrey MacDonald, I would wager it's going to take another several months before you admit you cannot come up with the goods.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

 

[Henri McPhee]

You can't cite an expert who pronounced the documentation placing Mazzerole in prison is a forgery, it took you ages to admit JTF wasn't going to get the citation from you BECAUSE IT DIDNT EXIST.

The documentation placing Mazerolle in jail was a forgery. He was out on bail along with his pal Rizzo who had been arrested by Detective Beasley and another detective about a month before on a drugs bust. Rizzo was definitely out on bail and there is no dispute about that. There is nothing that indicates that the piece of paper given to Shedlick and Fred Bost saying Mazerolle was in jail was a true copy. All Mazerolle's jail records have vanished including when he went on the run after not turning up in court to be sentenced, and when he was jailed on another charge in another state several months later. Even you must think that is suspicious.

Mazerolle has got away with murder thanks to the pathetic, and corrupt police work of the FBI and Army CID. MacDonald not only never had a fair trial, but he is innocent. He not only never had an impartial judge and jury but the 4th Circuit judges and Supreme Court were ignorant and biased as well.

It's like bankers and tycoons don't mind being bugged because they have nothing to hide. That's unfair on confidential informants like Helena Stoeckley. It's a violation of the rule of law.

 

[Henri McPhee]

This is an example of the 'complete' investigation of Mazerolle and other suspects in the MacDonald murders by the FBI. It's pathetic:

www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/3-1981-11-30-fbi-mazerolle.html

 

[byn63]

Allen Mazzerole was in jail on the night of the murders. there is plenty of documented evidence to support that fact.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/bond-mazerolle_1970-03-10.html

 

[BStrong]

The documentation placing Mazerolle in jail was a forgery. He was out on bail along with his pal Rizzo who had been arrested by Detective Beasley and another detective about a month before on a drugs bust. Rizzo was definitely out on bail and there is no dispute about that. There is nothing that indicates that the piece of paper given to Shedlick and Fred Bost saying Mazerolle was in jail was a true copy. All Mazerolle's jail records have vanished including when he went on the run after not turning up in court to be sentenced, and when he was jailed on another charge in another state several months later. Even you must think that is suspicious.

Missing records aren't unusual.

When agencies first began to computerize departmental records, including old arrest records, materials went missing.

It could have been simple errors of omission, but in the example of ATF and the change over from paper records in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record it's been established that certain ATF clerks may have deliberately destroyed the paper copies of registration papers to lighten their work load:

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/Violating_Due_Process20Aug2008.pdf

In 1992, the BATFE threatened charging Noel Napolilli, a retired public school teacher, with Possession of an Unregistered Firearm because BATFE said it could find no record of his MP-40 machine gun, serial number 4202, in the NFRTR

Napolilli provided a copy of the Form 3 that the BATFE had approved, later shown to be a copy that the BATFE made and sent to him, rather than one of the copies prepared in duplicate that the BATFE approved, the BATFE claimed the document was a forgery.94 Even though its own Forensic Document Laboratory examined the Form 3 and determined the document was genuine, the BATFE nevertheless seized and forfeited the firearm. 95

While BATFE contended the firearm had been illegally registered as
“remanufactured” because BATFE said it bore no evidence of remanufacture, the fact that BATFE lost all of its computerized and hard copy records of the firearm precluded a definitive determination.96

Mr. Napolilli continued, “[I later] learned that a BATF employee destroyed other registration documents to avoid having to work on them and that their database approached a 50% error rate.”100

 

[Henri McPhee]

Allen Mazzerole was in jail on the night of the murders. there is plenty of documented evidence to support that fact.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/bond-mazerolle_1970-03-10.html

I would agree with you if there was firm evidence that Mazerolle ever appeared in court on his drugs bust arrest. The FACT is that he was arrested and put in jail and then never appeared in court. That can't happen even in America. The 'logical inference' is that the was out on bail, as Detective Beasley believed and as confidential informant Helena Steockley said happened. This is what I have said previously about the matter:

This is part of what Detective Beasley, when he was alive, said about Mazerolle and his 'iron-clad' alibi:

"I don't have knowledge concerning the possible altering of Court records concerning the Mazerolle-Rizzo drug arrest, but I recall a number of occasions when Cumberland Court House records were altered after working hours at night. I don't believe Mazerolle was in jail the night of the murders."

 

[desmirelle]

The documentation placing Mazerolle in jail was a forgery. He was out on bail along with his pal Rizzo who had been arrested by Detective Beasley and another detective about a month before on a drugs bust. Rizzo was definitely out on bail and there is no dispute about that. There is nothing that indicates that the piece of paper given to Shedlick and Fred Bost saying Mazerolle was in jail was a true copy.

So HALF of what was delivered was the truth and the other half WASN'T? Pathetic attempt, even for you. CITE an EXPERT who examined the documentation and pronounced that.

 

[HSienzant]

God help us all.

Ted Gunderson is now being cited as some sort of expert on a JFK thread I frequent:

https://www.amazon.com/forum/histor...oldest&cdThread=TxCS4AMZJN34Y0#Mx72UHP58RBRZH

Legendary FBI Whistleblower Ted Gunderson, who literally ran the FBI in several different jurisdictions throughout the United States, complained bitterly about how he was stifled and his investigations routinely "snit-canned" whenever he got close to the very real and underground Satanic Pedophile Networks and other organized crime creeps that were being protected and covered up by the wealthy Oligarch/Plutocrats powers that be (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/04/23/the-strange-case-of-ted-gunderson/), and many suspect that he was murdered surreptitiously for daring to go on the lecture circuit to announce his findings (https://whitewraithe.wordpress.com/2012/01/28/ted-l-gunderson-ex-fbi-whistleblower-poisoned/).

Hank

 

[BStrong]

I would agree with you if there was firm evidence that Mazerolle ever appeared in court on his drugs bust arrest. The FACT is that he was arrested and put in jail and then never appeared in court. That can't happen even in America.The 'logical inference' is that the was out on bail, as Detective Beasley believed and as confidential informant Helena Steockley said happened. This is what I have said previously about the matter:

Tell that to John Le:



People are often taken into custody, booked and released on bail or their own recognizance that never get to court because of various reasons, none of them nefarious.

 

[BStrong]

God help us all.

Ted Gunderson is now being cited as some sort of expert on a JFK thread I frequent:

https://www.amazon.com/forum/histor...oldest&cdThread=TxCS4AMZJN34Y0#Mx72UHP58RBRZH



Hank

Citing Gunderson as anything other than an example of deluded thinking is an automatic fail.

 

[Henri McPhee]

People are often taken into custody, booked and released on bail or their own recognizance that never get to court because of various reasons, none of them nefarious.

From the hard documentary evidence about Mazerolle that doesn't seem to have vanished, he turned up in court about a year after the original drugs bust and then changed his plea to guilty where he was given five years and served only a few months. What you may well ask was he doing in the meantime? A year seems to be a long time.

www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/4-1971-01-14-mazerolle-guilty.html

I reckon Murtagh and Blackburn and Judge Dupree and Judge Fox provided Mazerolle with false documents to give him an iron clad alibi, and to keep his mouth shut at any future MacDonald appeal. That sort of thing has happened in the past with regard to false passports and other documentation. The same thing happened when Helena Stoeckley was bumped off before the 1985 Judge Dupree MacDonald appeal after saying on TV that she was going to blow the lid off of Fort Bragg, and Greg Mitchell died suddenly at about the same time. It's all mixed up with the corrupt Army CID and CIA drugs trade.

This is what actually happened with Detective Beasley talking to that FBI goon Butch Madden:

Mitchell was in the car, Don Harris was in the car, and I believe, uh, without looking at my report, his name was, uh, Poplin (phonetic), was in the car. Uh, now whether Bruce Fowler was there or not, I'm not sure about that. And there was some others that I, I, I don't know. I, I have records, I did have records, with the names of most of the people that was there, and I cannot locate my records, at the Police Department.

MADDEN: How many, uh, people, uh, specifically are you talking about, uh, can you recall the number of people who were with her at that time?

BEASLEY: Oh, gosh, there was six or seven people with her, uh, the car was completely full. It, it was completely filled up when it pulled up there. And, uh, they were, they were yelling and laughing, going on.

MADDEN: Was Bruce Johnny Fowler in the car?

BEASLEY: I don't recall Fowler being there. But I do recall Don Harris being there.

MADDEN: Was Allen Mazerolle in the car?

BEASLEY: Allen Mazerolle was there.

MADDEN: Uh, you're quite sure in you mind that, uh, uh, Fowler and Mazerolle were in the car?

BEASLEY: I'm not sure about Fowler.

MADDEN: Uh, you're not sure about Mr. Fowler, but you are sure about Mr. Mazerolle?

BEASLEY: And Greg Mitchell.

MADDEN: And Greg Mitchell.

BEASLEY: Don Harris.

MADDEN: Uh, there's no doubt in your mind, uh, at this time, that uh, Mazerolle was in the vehicle?

BEASLEY: Well, I, I don't think there's any doubt at all. Of course, now you know this was a long time ago. And I, without having records to refer to, its hard, but, uh, I'm, I'm positive he was there, almost positive he was there.

MADDEN: O.K. To the best of your recollection

BEASLEY: At the best of my recollection,

MADDEN: Mazerolle was, uh, in the vehicle with Helena and the, and the other individuals.

BEASLEY: Yes, uh, he was a close, uh, companion of Helena's anyway.

MADDEN: Was Mazerolle, uh, Helena's boyfriend, to your knowledge?

BEASLEY: Yes he was.

MADDEN: Had you ever, uh, arrested Mazerolle for any reason?

BEASLEY: Yes sir I did.

MADDEN: Uh, could you please tell me to the best of your recollection when and why you arrested Mazerolle.

BEASLEY: Uh, closest I can come to the date, now I know there's a file there on Mazerolle, but about fifteen days, I believe, before this MacDonald case, uh, thing happened, uh, Helena set Mazerolle up, and uh, I arrested him and her and another guy, together, and a guy by the name of Rezo (phonetic), driving, uh, Rezo's automobile, and they had about fifteen thousand dollars worth of LSD with them. Uh, I arrested all three, and put all three in jail. Confiscated the car, and uh, charged Rezo and Mazerolle, Ro, Rolle, or whatever his name is, with possession of LSD. And transported them. Helena was charged but later released.

MADDEN: Was, uh, Rezo and/or Mazerolle ever, uh, prosecuted for this offense, do you recall?

BEASLEY: Uh, yes they were. Mazerolle was gave, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, was given three to five years. Uh, Rezo was found not guilty.

MADDEN: You say that, uh, you arrested Rezo and Mazerolle approximately three weeks before the MacDonald murders?

BEASLEY: It was approximately that. I'm, I'm, now I'm guessing, uh, because, uh, I don't have the files, but I could look at the files and tell you, I know that file is there. I found that.

MADDEN: Was, uh, Rezo subsequently convicted?

BEASLEY: Rezo was released.

MADDEN: He was released.

BEASLEY: Yes.

MADDEN: Uh, but Mazerolle, uh, to your knowledge, uh, was convicted?

BEASLEY: He was convicted, yes he was.

MADDEN: And, uh, served time.

BEASLEY: He served time. I think he served about eight months out of a three to five year sentence.

MADDEN: After you arrested, uh, uh, Rezo and Mazerolle, uh, did they make, uh, bond, uh, immediately or shortly thereafter?

BEASLEY: Uh, yes, I guess they did, I'm not sure. I, I put 'em in jail and, uh, I don't know whether they made bond or not.

MADDEN: Well, obviously, uh, at least Mazerolle had to make bond in order to be, uh, out of jail on February 18, 1970, is that correct?

BEASLEY: Oh yes, he was out.

MADDEN: Definitely?

BEASLEY: Yes, he was out.

MADDEN: O.K. Uh, at this particular, uh, point, uh, in the interview, Mr. Beasley, I have no further questions of you. If you would like to make any statements at this time, uh, regarding your association, uh, with Helena Stoeckley and/or the investigation of the MacDonald case, uh, you would be most welcome to, uh, volunteer anything at this particular point.

(Tr. P. 39-43).

12. Prior to interviewing Beasley on November 18, 1981, I had read the following statement in the Investigative Report, United States v. Dr. Jeffrey R. MacDonald, Volume I, April 11, 1980, prepared by Ted L. Gunderson and Associates, Inc.; at page (196a) (attached #2):

"Mazerolle was not in custody at the time of the murders. The CBA Bonding Company had bonded him for $2,000."

 

[JTF]

Hollow Chatter

HENRIBOY: The irony of your obsession with Mazzerolle is that no other MacDonald advocate shares your fantasy narrative. Gunderson, Bost, Silverglate and a host of other advocates admitted that Mazzerolle was in jail on 2/17/70. This collective opinion was based on the correctional records, Mazzerolle's firm denials of involvement in this crime and the FACT that no trace evidence collected at the crime scene was sourced to Mazzerolle.

It's important to note that when given the opportunity to DNA test exemplars from the "Stoeckley Gang," inmate's defense team only requested exemplars from Stoeckley and Mitchell be tested by the AFIP. Hmmm, what does that tell ya? The defense had access to hair exemplars from Cathy Perry and Harris, Smith, Fowler and yes, Mazzerolle were alive when DNA testing protocol was being formulated.

The fact that the defense only requested exemplars from two members of the Stoeckley Seven, speaks to the defense team's lack of confidence that Perry, Harris, Smith, Fowler and yes, Mazzerolle had any involvement in this horrific crime. Heck, the defense never even attempted to contact Perry, Harris, Smith, Fowler and yes, Mazzerolle for permission to provide DNA samples to the AFIP.

It took several months for you to admit that no lab documentation exists that sources a known intruder suspect to this crime, yet you now hide behind your old chestnut regarding the lack of a "proper" investigation. Like always, you fail to provide documentation that backs your dubious assertions. Since there is NO chance that you will suddenly embrace critical thought, I challenge you to provide documentation that proves that the CID and FBI did not investigate ALL of the viable intruder suspects in this case.

Considering the depth and scope of the CID's 4 year reinvestigation and the FBI's 3 year investigation into suspects not named Jeffrey MacDonald, I would wager it's going to take another several months before you admit that you cannot come up with the goods.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

 

[BStrong]

From the hard documentary evidence about Mazerolle that doesn't seem to have vanished, he turned up in court about a year after the original drugs bust and then changed his plea to guilty where he was given five years and served only a few months. What you may well ask was he doing in the meantime? A year seems to be a long time.

snipped

d Greg Mitchell died suddenly at about the same time. It's all mixed up with the corrupt Army CID and CIA drugs trade. snipped

It could be for any one of a number of mundane reasons - here's a recent example from my neck of the woods:

http://www.redding.com/story/news/l...public-defender-murder-trial-delays/96089166/

Or it could be that an individual is a cooperating witness in other cases, or it could be that for whatever reason their case wasn't yet fully developed by the prosecution, which often happens with cases with multiple witnesses, suspects or attorneys. Getting everybody on the same time frame works perfect in popular fiction land but rarely in real life. Your assertions don't equal truth.

You're addressing the wrong guy. The ebil CIA drugs/guns/mopery with intent to creep ******** is an instant fail. On that, do yourself a favor. Read The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia by Al McCoy. The truth is a whole lot more boring than the fantasist version of events.

 

[Henri McPhee]

You're addressing the wrong guy. The ebil CIA drugs/guns/mopery with intent to creep ******** is an instant fail. On that, do yourself a favor. Read The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia by Al McCoy. The truth is a whole lot more boring than the fantasist version of events.

I have never read that book but Detective Beasley was a front line police officer who understood what was going on, unlike the 4th Circuit judges and the Supreme Court, and the corporate media which never reports controversy..

This is what Sam has said about the matter in the past. Sam seems to have inside information:

Read the book and compared it to CID reports a lot of it inconsistent and not accurate at all. One thing that has raised flags is the medical reports facts of the assailant being a left hander. The DNA underneath victims fingernails does not match JRM and I have to agree with Michael when I did further investigation past what is in report and crime scene photos the terms PSYOPS comes to mind. Jeff was stepping on toes.

This is a huge set up and the victims were your brother and nieces because Jeff was about to blow open MK ultra and heroin operation bigger than you can fathom. It is sad really sad that the Army let this happen but it did. There are a lot of facts to support this. He may have cheated he may have hurt her from time to time Bob but I have spoken to people who worked there on base and told me what went down. You have 5 Colonels on base involved JRM was a Captain with a big mouth and he was blatant known for not agreeing with the treatment of the soldiers for heroin addiction. JRM was right on the money when he said if the Army wants to get rid of you then they will. Out of all the murders 544 was the only gutted out and evidence burned. Ever. Why do you think that? No it wasn't because of the victims it was because of the evidence that would link them back.

Think about this JRM is 5 foot 10 the killer had to be left handed and 5 foot 7 the height floor to ceiling was 8 feet if he swung that club like they said well then JRM would have had significant injuries on his hands bruising and slashes and wounds on hands He had ice pick wounds on his left arm chest area. The cops even said this themselves that night that watch bills were changed things went down way differently than normal. He is a liar and his screwing around on base got him in deep.

Unfortunately he was not the actual person who murdered your family he was made to look like it. Don't you find it interesting that his old CO for which his wife was screwing around with JRM now works in our anti terrorism unit with Mr. Murtagh. Now why would that happen. There is so much to this case people don't even want to know about and if you dig smartly you find it.

This I can promise you the government doesn't want JRM out because if he does get out the **** will hit fan the real truth will be out and high ranked colonels careers pensions will be on the line. FOIA is a beautiful thing. My prayers and thoughts go out to you and Vivian the kind of loss you have endured is not what anyone in this lifetime should ever go through. May God Bless you and your Family. The real truth oh the next door neighbors know the real truth at 544 castle drive they were just paid by the Army like the rest of the Neighbors to keep their mouths shut.

 

[byn63]

I would agree with you if there was firm evidence that Mazerolle ever appeared in court on his drugs bust arrest. The FACT is that he was arrested and put in jail and then never appeared in court. That can't happen even in America. The 'logical inference' is that the was out on bail, as Detective Beasley believed and as confidential informant Helena Steockley said happened. This is what I have said previously about the matter:

Again, WHETHER OR NOT ALLEN M EVER APPEARED IN COURT ON THE DRUG CASE FOR WHICH HE WAS IN JAIL FROM MID-JANUARY TO MARCH 10, 1970 IS IRRELEVANT. All that matters is that he was in jail the night of the murders. PERIOD! HE COULD NOT HAVE PARTICIPATED IN THE MURDERS HE WAS IN JAIL.