US Officially Blames Russia

[Ziggurat]

Sooo...
Not reacting dramatically to the "red line crossing" in Syria was wrong for Obama

No. Creating a "red line" in the first place was the mistake. Don't make threats you can't or won't back up.

 

[tyr_13]

How would hacking the Republican party give Putin blackmail leverage over Trump?

It wouldn't. It would give him leverage over the people who will actually be running things for Trump, as he doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

It's possible that wouldn't work as well as Putin hypothetically hopes, but it also doesn't hurt.

 

[foophil]

Sure would be nice to have actual evidence. Not anonymous leaks from self-interested parties.

Amazing how many people are willing to take the FBI's and CIA's word for it when it suits them.

No. What is actually amazing is how people believe what they read on fake news sites (some of which have ties back to Russia) stating that this is all made up and Russia had nothing to do with the hacks... instead of believing what the CIA and FBI are reporting. Heck, congressmen from both parties, which have seen some of the evidence the CIA and FBI have provided them behind closed doors, agree Russia was behind the hacks.

But sure, trust Putin's word instead of the CIA. Yeah. Sounds like a solid plan.

 

[KwamiFabu]

No. What is actually amazing is how people believe what they read on fake news sites (some of which have ties back to Russia) stating that this is all made up and Russia had nothing to do with the hacks... instead of believing what the CIA and FBI are reporting. Heck, congressmen from both parties, which have seen some of the evidence the CIA and FBI have provided them behind closed doors, agree Russia was behind the hacks.

But sure, trust Putin's word instead of the CIA. Yeah. Sounds like a solid plan.

What are the CIA and FBI "reporting" exactly? What concrete evidence have we seen of this? If it existed, believe me it would've been on the front page of the NYT the next day. Assange denies Russian involvement, and Guccifer 2.0 has freely admitted it. Which is eminently credible since this stuff was on an unsecure server. A teenager could've "hacked" these emails. This is the real scandal, but ... squirrel!

Really rich when you consider Obama was eavesdropping on Merkel's phone calls, Hillary and DWS conspired to deny Bernie the nomination and we spent $350k in taxpayer money to defeat Netanyahu.

But sure, trust Obama and Hillary. They've never lied to us before.

 

[NoahFence]

What are the CIA and FBI "reporting" exactly? What concrete evidence have we seen of this? If it existed, believe me it would've been on the front page of the NYT the next day. Assange denies Russian involvement, and Guccifer 2.0 has freely admitted it. Which is eminently credible since this stuff was on an unsecure server. A teenager could've "hacked" these emails. This is the real scandal, but ... squirrel!

Really rich when you consider Obama was eavesdropping on Merkel's phone calls, Hillary and DWS conspired to deny Bernie the nomination and we spent $350k in taxpayer money to defeat Netanyahu.

But sure, trust Obama and Hillary. They've never lied to us before.

I get the sense if the Director of the FBI held the evidence onto your forehead while the Director of the CIA stapled it there, you'd still not believe it.


...seems if you ask, you receive.

Just need patience.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/312132-fbi-dhs-release-report-on-russia-hacking

 

[Darth Rotor]

President Obama has ordered the expulsion of diplomats. This reminds me of the back and forth "get your diplomats out of here" the Soviets and the US did for a few decades during the cold war when the spy game was played seriously. I expect that Mr Putin will ensure that an equal number of American diplomats are sent home, as he's an old Cold War player.

Same Stuff, Different Decade

 

[Delphic Oracle]

I get the sense if the Director of the FBI held the evidence onto your forehead while the Director of the CIA stapled it there, you'd still not believe it.


...seems if you ask, you receive.

Just need patience.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/312132-fbi-dhs-release-report-on-russia-hacking

The same Director of the FBI that Democrats and Republicans both insisted we wait for word from on Hillary's emails? Then Republicans lambasted and Democrats praised for the lack of indictments? Oh, and then Democrats lambasted and Republicans praised for sending a letter to Congress about the emails from the Weiner case? and then...and then...

He does have a bit of a point, but I also think he's "only right by half."

I don't know quite which direction the players in the 'deep state' are going to take. My inclination is that they see clueless reactionaries in power pumping out lots of existential fear. So the really easy play for them is to make a big stink about intelligence and espionage and viola, the money faucets flow and the oversight relaxes as blank checks of every metaphorical variety are written out to them.

The link you supplied is carrying a lot of water for a report that has maybe a 2-page summary of all the same circumstantial, indirect claims I've read over the last few months. The bulk of the report seems to be some graphics that very generically illustrate what 'hacking' is and several pages of suggested security settings for network administrators to be aware of.

It's like a network security PSA with 'the Russians are coming' tacked on to it.

 

[BobTheCoward]

If it existed, believe me it would've been on the front page of the NYT the next day.

While we are being skeptical, I don't think this is an evidence based claim.

 

[NoahFence]

The same Director of the FBI that Democrats and Republicans both insisted we wait for word from on Hillary's emails? Then Republicans lambasted and Democrats praised for the lack of indictments? Oh, and then Democrats lambasted and Republicans praised for sending a letter to Congress about the emails from the Weiner case? and then...and then...

He does have a bit of a point, but I also think he's "only right by half."

I don't know quite which direction the players in the 'deep state' are going to take. My inclination is that they see clueless reactionaries in power pumping out lots of existential fear. So the really easy play for them is to make a big stink about intelligence and espionage and viola, the money faucets flow and the oversight relaxes as blank checks of every metaphorical variety are written out to them.

The link you supplied is carrying a lot of water for a report that has maybe a 2-page summary of all the same circumstantial, indirect claims I've read over the last few months. The bulk of the report seems to be some graphics that very generically illustrate what 'hacking' is and several pages of suggested security settings for network administrators to be aware of.

It's like a network security PSA with 'the Russians are coming' tacked on to it.

So, stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and say "lalala I can't hear you"?

Didn't see that coming.

Isn't that going to be official US policy for just about everything the next 4 years?

 

[foophil]

What are the CIA and FBI "reporting" exactly? What concrete evidence have we seen of this?

Good Lord, why on Earth do you think the CIA would let you in on their no doubt highly classified info? They have shown it to the President and to Congressmen, all who now agree with their assessment. I remind you that people from both parties have looked at it and agreed. But you, a person with zero security clearance, should be privy to material that may put other people's lives at risk? Oh wait, they did release some evidence already to the public (the code used in the hacking), but I imagine you are ready to hand wave that away next.

Really rich when you consider Obama was eavesdropping on Merkel's phone calls, Hillary and DWS conspired to deny Bernie the nomination and we spent $350k in taxpayer money to defeat Netanyahu.

All legitimate complaints, though none of which are the topics of this thread. Take them elsewhere and stick to the topic please.

But sure, trust Obama and Hillary. They've never lied to us before.

I'm not trusting just them. I'm trusting the CIA, FBI, and others who have seen the evidence and confirmed it is real.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Russian MFA spokeswoman has warmed up on her private facebook for tomorrow:

[...] Today America, the American people were humiliated by their own President. Not by international terrorists, not by enemy troops. This time Washington received a slap in the face by its own master, maximizing the number of urgent matters for the incoming team. Complex steps are needed for the Middle East, not for revenge.

Curtain call. The bad play is over. The whole world, from the orchestra to the balcony, is watching a devastating blow to America's and its leadership's prestige caused by Barack Obama and his illiterate foreign policy team, which disclosed its main secret to the world - the exclusivity was a disguise for helplessness. And no enemy of the United States could do more harm.

P.S. Tomorrow will come the official statements, countermeasures and much more.

 

[NoahFence]

Ooh...

Scary!

 

[Darth Rotor]

Isn't that going to be official US policy for just about everything the next 4 years?

Given that Donald Trump's rhetoric has been all over the map in the last three months, anyone who thinks they can predict what policy will be for the next five months, no less the next 4 years, is on some serious mind altering substances.
You don't know.
I don't know.
I am not sure that The Donald knows.
It is my opinion that he's playing it by ear, so far. Not sure if that will change. We'll see.

Get yourself some popcorn. It will be entertaining, regardless of how it plays out.

 

[NoahFence]

Okee doke

 

[Delphic Oracle]

So, stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and say "lalala I can't hear you"?

Didn't see that coming.

Isn't that going to be official US policy for just about everything the next 4 years?

I'm not sticking my fingers in my ears, I remain open to the possibility and numerous ways in which a Russian connection are probable, official or unofficial.

Here's the thing that really kinda scares me. Our President-Elect seems trivially unconcerned with it. He's not all that fire-and-brimstone about waving it off, even. True or untrue, I agree that there should be some impetus to get to the bottom of it. Putting this together with his casual attitude about his security briefings, the intelligence community is probably having some rough sleep lately.

 

[Henri McPhee]

It seems like the story is far from settled:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-intelligence-idUSKBN14204E

Exclusive: Top U.S. spy agency has not embraced CIA assessment on Russia hacking - sources

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...termediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html

EXCLUSIVE: Ex-British ambassador who is now a WikiLeaks operative claims Russia did NOT provide Clinton emails - they were handed over to him at a D.C. park by an intermediary for 'disgusted' Democratic whistleblowers

All this comes from the CIA deciding policy, or cocaine Importation and torture and bugging agency as it is sometimes known. America needs sane government, not this CIA policy of supporting Al-Qaeda groups in Syria with military equipment and training in order to topple Assad, and not offending the Jews.

Part of the trouble is that the Russians and wily Turks and Iranians are semi -Asiatics. They don't think like red-blooded Englishmen and they don't play cricket. Crimea always has been part of Russia and they speak Russian in the east of Ukraine.

This CIA propaganda, with their close connections in the mainstream media, that Putin is planning aggression against Latvia and Estonia and Sweden and Poland is not based on evidence. Personally, I think Putin thinks that would interfere with international trade and he is right.

All these silly sanctions to "keep Russia under control" is not right judgment. I think it would be a disaster if Cameron was put in charge of Nato. It would just lead to the spread of Isis, as happened in Libya. It's a monstrous and dangerous policy as usual.

 

[foophil]

All this comes from the CIA deciding policy, or cocaine Importation and torture and bugging agency as it is sometimes known. America needs sane government, not this CIA policy of supporting Al-Qaeda groups in Syria with military equipment and training in order to topple Assad, and not offending the Jews.

Part of the trouble is that the Russians and wily Turks and Iranians are semi -Asiatics. They don't think like red-blooded Englishmen and they don't play cricket. Crimea always has been part of Russia and they speak Russian in the east of Ukraine.
This CIA propaganda, with their close connections in the mainstream media, that Putin is planning aggression against Latvia and Estonia and Sweden and Poland is not based on evidence. Personally, I think Putin thinks that would interfere with international trade and he is right.

All these silly sanctions to "keep Russia under control" is not right judgment. I think it would be a disaster if Cameron was put in charge of Nato. It would just lead to the spread of Isis, as happened in Libya. It's a monstrous and dangerous policy as usual.

I don't have much to say one way or the other about the rest of your post, but the highlighted portion is simply not true. Read up on the history of Crimea and you'll see it was only recently part of Russia (in historical timelines).

Crimea (or the Tauric Peninsula, as it was called from antiquity until the early modern period) has historically been at the boundary between the classical world and the Pontic–Caspian steppe. Its southern fringe was colonised by the ancient Greeks, the Persians, the Romans, the Byzantine Empire, the Crimean Goths, the Genoese and the Ottoman Empire, while at the same time its interior was occupied by a changing cast of invading steppe nomads and empires, such as the Cimmerians, Scythians, Sarmatians, Goths, Alans, Bulgars, Huns, Khazars, Kipchaks, Mongols and the Golden Horde. Crimea and adjacent territories were united in the Crimean Khanate during the 15th to 18th century.

In 1783, Crimea was annexed by the Russian Empire. Following the Russian Revolution of 1917, Crimea became an autonomous republic within the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic in the USSR, though later, during World War Two, it was downgraded to the Crimean Oblast.

In 1954, the Crimean Oblast was transferred to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, by Nikita Khrushchev in order to bolster the "unity of Russians and Ukrainians" and the "great and indissoluble friendship" between the two peoples.[3] It became the Autonomous Republic of Crimea within newly independent Ukraine in 1991, with Sevastopol having its own administration, within Ukraine but outside of the Autonomous Republic.

For only 177 years (give or take) out of thousands of years in the total history of Crimea has it been in Russian/Soviet Union hands. For the last 23 of 25 years, it was part of Ukraine in one form or another... right up until Russia rolled in and took it by force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

 

[Childlike Empress]

If you want to know what Murray claims or doesn't claim I suggest you listen to the man instead of using filters like the Daily Fail.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Putin's reaction is in, a true gem from the master. He's treating the clowns as who they are, refuses to take the bait and ... "moreover I invite all children of US diplomats accredited in Russia to the New Year and Christmas children’s parties in the Kremlin. "

We regard the recent unfriendly steps taken by the outgoing US administration as provocative and aimed at further weakening the Russia-US relationship. This runs contrary to the fundamental interests of both the Russian and American people. Considering the global security responsibilities of Russia and the United States, this is also damaging to international relations as a whole.

As it proceeds from international practice, Russia has reasons to respond in kind. Although we have the right to retaliate, we will not resort to irresponsible ‘kitchen’ diplomacy but will plan our further steps to restore Russian-US relations based on the policies of the Trump Administration.

The diplomats who are returning to Russia will spend the New Year’s holidays with their families and friends. We will not create any problems for US diplomats. We will not expel anyone. We will not prevent their families and children from using their traditional leisure sites during the New Year’s holidays. Moreover, I invite all children of US diplomats accredited in Russia to the New Year and Christmas children’s parties in the Kremlin.

It is regrettable that the Obama Administration is ending its term in this manner. Nevertheless, I offer my New Year greetings to President Obama and his family.

My season’s greetings also to President-elect Donald Trump and the American people.

I wish all of you happiness and prosperity.

 

[sunmaster14]

Breaking: State Dept expels 20 Nigerian diplomats after John Podesta fails to receive $1 million wire transfer from nephew of General Okezi