Bigfoot Follies: part deux

[The Shrike]

So the supposed "every man" who typically encounters Bigfoot is more apt to be mistaken about seeing a mythical non-existent beast that they inevitably know beforehand doesn't exist instead of just lying about it?

More or less apt I don't know, but your premise doesn't include the folks who believe first and then use motivated reasoning to dupe themselves into believing they've had some kind of ape-y experience.

Really? In order to "genuinely believe" in Bigfoot, a lucid intelligent person

Now you're really reaching . . .

Including the necessity of placing far more trust in one's own ability to perceive "reality" anywhere in the universe better than the thousands of (generations of) humans that have preceded them in any one place where they're claiming knowledge.

Donald J. Trump is soon to be inaugurated President of the United States of America, despite the objections of countless experts on economics, science, geopolitical security, etc.

They're only "innocently" throwing out all the known science because they're "mistaken"? That makes more sense than their simply "lying" about it? Really?

Why can't some of them be lying and some of them be dumb? There is abundant evidence that dishonesty and stupidity are well represented within our species - some folks even have both!

As for Dandy Don Meldrum, he doesn't get to have it both ways. One of the things a PhD, EdD, JD etc. gives is an implied warranty to the public . .

That would be great. The sad truth, however, is that university faculties are rife with really smart people who are lousy critical thinkers and believe some ridiculous bovine poo. The guy in the office next to mine, for example, is a statistical and mathematical whiz but he's also a fundamentalist Christian who begins each of his courses with a statement about how his faith informs his estimates of board feet returned from a stand of plantation pine.

Yet, Meldrum believing in a religion that is certainly no more dubious than any other religion

No, but without the veneer of antiquity is so much more obviously debunked as the construct of modern men (one in particular). Mormonism is just Scientology, but carefully grafted onto existing Christianity and with about a 100-year patina.

How does he get to be "mistaken" on Bigfoot despite his designation as one of society's top practitioners of the very science that long ago opined that Bigfoot does not exist because there's no valid scientific evidence to suggest it does? Because he appeared to **** up the god question?

Again, I leave the door open a crack for Meldrum as a motivated reasoner whose faith is foundational to belief in races of giants on earth. Remember, devoutly religious folks are taught from the cradle that their faith includes truths in direct opposition to what modern science tells them is so. Religious folks who become scientists simply compartmentalize and rationalize themselves into positions of, as Gould termed it, "non-overlapping magisteria." Meldrum could see himself as using his scientific talents to reveal a truth that he and other Mormons already believe, i.e., that bigfoots are Nephilim or some such silliness. Recall that his publication record includes multiple scholarly works on Mormonism. The dude is serious about it.

 

[Cervelo]

Meh....it's really not that complicated, people and motivations are. The comparison to religious development, or ones involvement is a good one.
You've got a complelling story, unexplained experiences and the subsequent interpretations.
From there you've got your people who have a vague interest all the way to hard core believers. Then a myriad of leaders, charlatans, crooks that dispense the scared knowledge, these people are motivated by ego and/or profit. The flock follows them to whatever degree they choose to, or their desire to be part of something drives them too.
Next thing you know you've got Billy Bob taking pot shots at a magical monkey man in Oklahoma or 500,000 dead in Syria or the holocaust.
People are for the most part sheep, they want to be lead, be part of the group or something "special".....righteous....it's a fascinating trait we have, that gets things done good and bad.

 

[HarryHenderson]

More or less apt I don't know, but your premise doesn't include the folks who believe first and then use motivated reasoning to dupe themselves into believing they've had some kind of ape-y experience...

But isn't lying to oneself the same as just plain lying?

Now you're really reaching . . .

To be clear, I've no problem designating all Bigfoot "believers" as suffering from mental illness.

...Donald J. Trump is soon to be inaugurated President of the United States of America, despite the objections of countless experts on economics, science, geopolitical security, etc.

Let's not go off the rails here, there's many so-called "experts" that have no clue what they're talking about, maybe especially so concerning "reality".

...Why can't some of them be lying and some of them be dumb? There is abundant evidence that dishonesty and stupidity are well represented within our species - some folks even have both!

They can, and I've not discounted that. My argument is that the majority of the Bigfooters that we're aware of - the BFF, all the "experts" (Meldrums), the NAWACs, etc. - are FAKING IT.

...That would be great. The sad truth, however, is that university faculties are rife with really smart people who are lousy critical thinkers and believe some ridiculous bovine poo. The guy in the office next to mine, for example, is a statistical and mathematical whiz but he's also a fundamentalist Christian who begins each of his courses with a statement about how his faith informs his estimates of board feet returned from a stand of plantation pine...

That guy's bonkers! Sadly I know more than anyone ever should about "math" types and they're ALL out of their ******* minds. Just to be clear (again), I didn't say there is a warranty, just an implied one. But it's totally righteous for an unknowing public to put their trust in such a designation, ignorant of the character and ability of its human agent because that's in part what the designation's about.

...No, but without the veneer of antiquity is so much more obviously debunked as the construct of modern men (one in particular). Mormonism is just Scientology, but carefully grafted onto existing Christianity and with about a 100-year patina...

To quote a recent post I saw, "Now you're really reaching."

...Again, I leave the door open a crack for Meldrum as a motivated reasoner whose faith is foundational to belief in races of giants on earth. Remember, devoutly religious folks are taught from the cradle that their faith includes truths in direct opposition to what modern science tells them is so. Religious folks who become scientists simply compartmentalize and rationalize themselves into positions of, as Gould termed it, "non-overlapping magisteria." Meldrum could see himself as using his scientific talents to reveal a truth that he and other Mormons already believe, i.e., that bigfoots are Nephilim or some such silliness. Recall that his publication record includes multiple scholarly works on Mormonism. The dude is serious about it.

Alright, that's fair enough. So then can we use the word "stupid" when he as a PhD holder allows his faith to Trump™ any reality it wants to because "stupid is as stupid does"?

I still think he's just a good liar.

 

[Castro]

Do Brian Brown and Kathy Strain carry around big guns there?

For the record that's what they said:

- Posted by Guest (Bipto aka Brian Brown) at the BFF, August 31 2012:
http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/33323-operation-persistence/&page=7

I carry a Sig Saur P226 .40 S&W sidearm, though it's not for baggin' monkeys as much as it is for providing a measure of protection against the other critters in the woods...My good friend Bob Strain has a veritable arsenal at his disposal.

- Posted by Hairy Man (Kathy Strain) at the BFF, October 3 2012:
http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/33323-operation-persistence/&page=38

If I haven't already mentioned it, I would like to note that my husband and I were heavily armed while we were there. At no time did anyone ever tell me or my husband not to shoot if we thought we had a target in our sight.

 

[Drewbot]

He snap-shot in the general direction of a footie? Sounds safe.

No.

He snap-shot in the general direction of a footie, while his feet were tangled in the chair, and he was falling down.

Bipto has verified that this shooting was within the NAWAC's firearm-discipline guidelines.

 

[The Shrike]

. So then can we use the word "stupid" when he as a PhD holder allows his faith to Trump™ any reality it wants to because "stupid is as stupid does"?

I still think he's just a good liar.

Yes, we can and we should call that stupid. My Evolution professor Will Provine said as much in his lecture on atheism and critical thought. At the time I was a budding young scientist but also a devout and traditional Catholic. Provine had published an article about scientists who remain religious asking if they "check their brains in at the door" of the church before walking in. It was great stuff, but at 19 I wasn't fully ready for it yet.

Instead, I hyper-rationalized and compartmentalized for many more years beyond that, not fully breaking clear of religious stupidity until I had been working as a professor for a few years. So I was both a card-carrying advocate for science and critical thought and someone who on some level believed that some magic stuff went down when good people gathered to think really holy thoughts about some bread and wine. Stupid.

I was lucky. Catholics are only selectively crazy. Though they often suck at it, they at least are on paper okay with some modern science. It was nuns who first taught me about Darwin, for example, and they did a great job. I was also lucky to have encountered a guy like Provine who really challenged my core beliefs.

Now consider Don Jeffrey: Devout, traditional Mormon dude, raised and educated by Mormons with a BS and MS from BYU. Mormon views on evolution are kind of all over the map with no official doctrine on the subject. Brigham Young, however, was quite opposed to its teaching at the university he founded, so I'm going to assume that Don Jeffrey has some serious blind spots on the subject.

Some Mormon scholars - perhaps those a bit more open to evolutionary theory - have also debated the existence of "pre-Adamites", i.e., the genetic precursors that led to the arrival of the ancestral man, formed in God's image: the literal Adam. Though I've not read his work, Meldrum's scholarly Mormon stuff specifically addresses genetics in the Book of Mormon, so it might be that he's one of these Adamite-acolytes for whom proof of "subhumans" on the Earth would provide validation for an idea that he might see as a key to rectifying his faith life with whatever scientific objectivism he might have left.

If I'm right and a bona fide scientist like Meldrum could've fallen down this rabbit hole, then he could be stupid and wrong but also honest in his claims of belief in ol' footy-foo-foo. What more powerful motivation is there for motivated reasoning than the reconciliation of your life's work with the fundamentals of your faith? And if Meldrum is down that rabbit hole, then surely he'd have dragged his own acolytes with him.

Or he could just be in it for the chicks.

As for the NAWACkies, it's really hard to take seriously any of their claims about trying to collect a footie. There might be a couple of honest believers among their ranks though, just because some people are really really dumb.

 

[dmaker]

I hear you regarding Meldrum, but I find it difficult to reconcile faith impaired objectivity with hawking tee shirts and fake casts at comic conventions and peddling laminated pamphlets on Amazon. I find it more difficult to accept Meldrum as you described when he seems to have no issue with making a buck off of bigfoot every chance he gets while doing nothing to advance the scientific case. Where are the peer reviewed papers? Where are the serious expeditions? Medlrums relationship with bigfoot seems purely mercantile to me. There seems to be little to no science involved. That does not scream true belief, misguided or otherwise.

I would be curious to see how long his interest in bigfoot remained strong if no one was willing to pay appearance fees or buy his trinkets any longer.

 

[The Shrike]

. . .I find it difficult to reconcile faith impaired objectivity with hawking tee shirts and fake casts at comic conventions and peddling laminated pamphlets on Amazon.

All great points. As I indicated though, the door for him to be a motivated reasoner is open just a wee bit. It's mostly closed because he sure looks like a crackpot money-grubbing swindler to me too.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Being religious doesn't mean you're not going to enjoy making money any way you can get it. Nor does being religious mean you're not going to tell lies. On the other hand, it can indicate that a person is more than willing to believe in strange things, and that's Meldrum all over.

I think he holds belief in Bigfoot to some extent, for whatever reasons he's come up with. Is he lying about a lot of things? Probably, yeah. It takes all sorts to make a world.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Being religious doesn't mean you're not going to enjoy making money any way you can get it. Nor does being religious mean you're not going to tell lies. On the other hand, it can indicate that a person is more than willing to believe in strange things, and that's Meldrum all over.

I think he holds belief in Bigfoot to some extent, for whatever reasons he's come up with. Is he lying about a lot of things? Probably, yeah. It takes all sorts to make a world.

 

[HarryHenderson]

Yes, we can and we should call that stupid...<brevity snip>...If I'm right and a bona fide scientist like Meldrum could've fallen down this rabbit hole, then he could be stupid and wrong but also honest in his claims of belief in ol' footy-foo-foo. What more powerful motivation is there for motivated reasoning than the reconciliation of your life's work with the fundamentals of your faith? And if Meldrum is down that rabbit hole, then surely he'd have dragged his own acolytes with him.

Or he could just be in it for the chicks.

As for the NAWACkies, it's really hard to take seriously any of their claims about trying to collect a footie. There might be a couple of honest believers among their ranks though, just because some people are really really dumb.

I admit it, you make a good case for Meldrum being "stupidly innocent" in his almost comedic pursuit of Bigfoot. And thus it's quite possible he's not the skillful liar I've been pegging him for. But, as dmaker points out, what about his shameless need to constantly suck cash from the Bigfoot teat? His cause is duly righteous and that's all the justification he needs? And he might be in it for the chicks too.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

I admit it, you make a good case for Meldrum being "stupidly innocent" in his almost comedic pursuit of Bigfoot. And thus it's quite possible he's not the skillful liar I've been pegging him for. But, as dmaker points out, what about his shameless need to constantly suck cash from the Bigfoot teat? His cause is duly righteous and that's all the justification he needs? And he might be in it for the chicks too.

It baffles me that people think that in order to be self-righteous or religious, that you need to be opposed to making money from shameless acts.

Meldrum, like Patterson and Gimlin et al, held/hold religious beliefs and yet still peddle their wares to the public. People can justify anything to themselves.

The Kray's routinely attended church with their mother, often giving money to the charity-box, before heading out to the clubs to essentially smash peoples faces in.

It's a weird world.

 

[dmaker]

I would argue that some of the people you mentioned, organized crime members for example, are not true believers in their religious faith either.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

I would argue that some of the people you mentioned, organized crime members for example, are not true believers in their religious faith either.

This is something I'd warn against, tbh. Many notable criminals did indeed have faith in their chosen religions. The Kray's, by all accounts, were very much believers in their faith, as was their mother. There are some very good chapters in some very good books that delve into such topics, one being "Our Story," by Fred Dinenage, being one of the most detailed and most notable.

In this "revisiting" style documentary, Fred goes into it a bit further re: their faith and it's stark contrast with how they plied their trade:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crnROARFX5k


Not to mention the fact that we already have people killing in the name of their chosen religion.

Like I was saying earlier, humans can justify almost anything if they choose to do so.

I think it's a bit too much of a stretch to say that guys like, say Meldrum or Patterson, were lying about believing in God and believing in Bigfoot. People are far more complex than merely being liars.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Duplicate post.

 

[Drewbot]

Do Brian Brown and Kathy Strain carry around big guns there?

If you REALLY think there is a Bigfoot there, you could reasonably justify the cost of one of these to put an end to the debate. You could get one for about 12,000 dollars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW

 

[The Shrike]

And he might be in it for the chicks too.

Mormon chicks . . .

Not to derail too badly, but traditional families put enormous pressure on their kids to marry within the faith. You have to get married before you can have sex and you really want to have sex so you've got to be on the lookout for a nice (and secretly free-kay in the bedroom) Catholic (in my case) girl. Where do you find her? In the local bar church, of course! So you keep going to church, you find love, you get married, you have kids, and the kids, of course, need to go to church to learn about Jesus and . . . the next thing you know, you're in your 70s and you've got decades-long relationships of family and friends tied up in your church and you never even consider why you started down that path in the first place.

The point is that Meldrum, Krantz, and I think Bindernagle are/were Mormon, and those folks seem to be about 10x worse than Catholics when it comes to peer group and familial reinforcement of the faith. So I can totally see Meldrum as a guy who's never for a moment actually thought about that that faith. It just is and the rest of the world must fit into its constructs. It could be just as difficult to convince a guy like Meldrum that there's no bigfoot as it would be to convince him that there was no literal Adam.

Now imagine that level of motivated reasoning being fairly widespread among 'footers of Mormon, other hyper-Christian, and/or variously concocted aboriginal faiths. That's a recipe for a core of true believers who could be Bigfoot Folly-ingart do-we-really-think-this-will-ever-stop long after we're gone. Add in a sprinkling of hucksters leaving a trail of breadcrumbs for them and Voila! Forever bigfootses!

 

[William Parcher]

FLIR has introduced a couple new products for consumers. An upgraded Pro version for smartphones, and a version for drones.

Maybe this will open some doors for hoaxes because Bigfootery has been very slow and boring.

http://www.flir.com/home

 

[Drewbot]

FLIR has introduced a couple new products for consumers. An upgraded Pro version for smartphones, and a version for drones.

Maybe this will open some doors for hoaxes because Bigfootery has been very slow and boring.

http://www.flir.com/home

I am going to share this on some Facebook bigfoot pages. Maybe one of them is looking for a new avenue to show us all a Bigfoot.

 

[Resume]

Nothing like some heat-signature blur-footies to keep the ball rolling; new and unimproved fake evidence from above.

Of course the phone app won't work, because as we all know, ole foo moves much too fast for folks to whip out their phone and . . . wait, I forget.

Hey NL, you gonna add this to the SRA bag of tricks that don't work.

Do better than this though.


"Obviously, these aren't bigfoots . . . "

What tipped you off genius?