Tillerson to be SOS

[cmikes]

And hiring one of Putin's friends and business partners as secretary of state doesn't mean anything to you?

I'm in no way supporting Trump. He may turn out to be just as bad if not worse than Obama and Clinton/Kerry. I'm just making the point that the meme that Putin is intimidated, to the point that he would try to influence the US election, by someone he completely humiliated during her tenure as Secretary of State is completely asinine.

 

[cmikes]

What countries are going to be first ceded to russia by the Trump administration?

Maybe Syria? Oops, to late. Maybe the Ukraine? Oops, again, too late.

 

[3point14]

One of the most depressing things about this election was realizing that a lying neofascist demagogue has won because America's right-wing has finally succeeded into turning our political environment into a giant steaming pile of ****, with little prospect of a clean-up in my remaining lifetime. As a nation, we have become too stupid to govern ourselves rationally, so let the looting begin, "conservatives"; we'll be watching reality TV. When you're a star, you can do anything you want, ya know.

It's the new standard:

One of the financial backers of exiting the EU:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ork-arron-banks-lies-referendum-a7111001.html

 

[ponderingturtle]

I'm in no way supporting Trump. He may turn out to be just as bad if not worse than Obama and Clinton/Kerry. I'm just making the point that the meme that Putin is intimidated, to the point that he would try to influence the US election, by someone he completely humiliated during her tenure as Secretary of State is completely asinine.

He just wanted a president who would end embargoes and give him a green light on any invasions he chooses. He got that. The secretary of state will support russia in any invasions it so chooses from now on.

 

[Upchurch]

I'm in no way supporting Trump. He may turn out to be just as bad if not worse than Obama and Clinton/Kerry. I'm just making the point that the meme that Putin is intimidated, to the point that he would try to influence the US election, by someone he completely humiliated during her tenure as Secretary of State is completely asinine.

Humiliated? ...maybe, I don't think anyone was saying Putin was motivated by being intimidated.

The CIA was saying that Putin was originally motivated by revenge against Clinton to the point he would interfere with the election. That is not asinine at all. Putin is known for his rather exuberant revenge against his political enemies. She's probably lucky he didn't find a way to poison her.

Apparently, it was only later that he realized he could also help Trump get into office as a useful idiot. Hence, Putin-friendly Tillerson as Secretary of State.

 

[David RP]

Gee, I wonder if 25 years of non-stop lies about Hillary Clinton hurt her chances?

One of the most depressing things about this election was realizing that a lying neofascist demagogue has won because America's right-wing has finally succeeded into turning our political environment into a giant steaming pile of ****, with little prospect of a clean-up in my remaining lifetime. As a nation, we have become too stupid to govern ourselves rationally, so let the looting begin, "conservatives"; we'll be watching reality TV. When you're a star, you can do anything you want, ya know.

I concur and do not live or have the right to vote in the USA

 

[ChristianProgressive]

Honestly, I doubt the Trump administration will be as bad as the Bush (43) administration.

Bush43 didn't have a TEA Party Congress ready and rarin' to go with the nastiest agenda of anti-poor, anti-environment, pro-big business agenda we've ever seen. There was still effective opposition to keep the worst of it at bay.

All Trump needs to do is keep us out of multi-trillion dollar wars, which is something he campaigned on. Granted, Bush campaigned on refusing to engage in nation-building, but I think it's something the Donald has a good chance of avoiding.

He promises to "keep us out of wars", but wants to massively increase military spending. Non sequitor.

Colin Powell is the Sec. of State who the press adored, and it was his storm of lies at the U.N. that convinced a bunch of people on the fence to invade Iraq. If Tillerson is cartoonishly bad, then that can be a not-so-terrible thing.

Powell was badly misled by his bosses and is unfairly blamed for the result.

Tillerson won't get us into any wars because he'll be too busy cozying up to the Russians to advance his oil interests.

 

[blutoski]

Tillerson won't get us into any wars because he'll be too busy cozying up to the Russians to advance his oil interests.

I feel the opposite is true. Tillerson is likely to drag the US into endless crap wars every time Russians screw up a territorial annexation. Likely a 'divide the country' a la Molotov Ribbentrop Pact situation - US gets half, Russia gets half, parties split the looted oil revenues evenly.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

What countries are going to be first ceded to russia by the Trump administration?

It's too late for Crimea, right?

 

[ChristianProgressive]

@ blutoski Possible.

 

[cmikes]

He just wanted a president who would end embargoes and give him a green light on any invasions he chooses. He got that. The secretary of state will support russia in any invasions it so chooses from now on.

So you believe that Trump will simply continue the Obama policy but without the toothless "red lines" and warnings?

 

[cmikes]

Humiliated? ...maybe, I don't think anyone was saying Putin was motivated by being intimidated.

The CIA was saying that Putin was originally motivated by revenge against Clinton to the point he would interfere with the election. That is not asinine at all. Putin is known for his rather exuberant revenge against his political enemies. She's probably lucky he didn't find a way to poison her.

Revenge? For what? Putin has gotten exactly what's he's wanted for the past eight years. Actually, even longer than that. Remember Bush looking into Putin's eyes and getting a sense of his soul? Putin should be sending Obama and Clinton/Kerry fruit baskets or something.

Apparently, it was only later that he realized he could also help Trump get into office as a useful idiot. Hence, Putin-friendly Tillerson as Secretary of State.

Oh, I agree Tillerson is probably a bad choice. There's only two things that give me even a smidgen of hope about the situation. One, it can't hurt having a business guy in there, after all the politicians have been ******* up dealing with Russia for decades now, it's not like he can make it much worse. And two, John Bolton as Deputy Secretary. He's been very clear on Russia for a while and he's not the type to stay quiet if he's not happy. With him in there, one of two things is probably going to happen. Either Tillerson is going to be tougher than anyone expects on Russia, or Bolton won't last long as Deputy Secretary.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I still think it should have been Hillary for Secretary of State. That would have been epic.

That would have been awesome. Damnit, why didn't he do that?

I prefer "**** on a Shingle" as in Army speak in the older days for very thinly sliced bits of dried beef in a white "sauce" served on dry toast/stale bread after modest heating of some type.

Washed down with horrible coffee, it's a nutritious breakfast. Good stuff.

And hiring one of Putin's friends and business partners as secretary of state doesn't mean anything to you?

Marginally better than hiring George Soros, or marginally worse. Still thinking that one over.

I feel the opposite is true. Tillerson is likely to drag the US into endless crap wars every time Russians screw up a territorial annexation. Likely a 'divide the country' a la Molotov Ribbentrop Pact situation - US gets half, Russia gets half, parties split the looted oil revenues evenly.

I don't think Tillerson's stupid. Then again, when people get into government, a lot of things about them change. (I have in mind a guy I voted for four years ago for city council. Eff me, I barely recognize the guy now. Voted against him this time, and a lot of us did so he was tossed out).

 

[Upchurch]

Revenge? For what? Putin has gotten exactly what's he's wanted for the past eight years.

Your assessment appears to be formed by confirmation bias.

However, I am using the word based on this.

Putin's objectives were multifaceted, a high-level intelligence source told NBC News. What began as a "vendetta" against Hillary Clinton morphed into an effort to show corruption in American politics and to "split off key American allies by creating the image that [other countries] couldn't depend on the U.S. to be a credible global leader anymore," the official said.

Which Putin's efforts have paid off in spades, with a Putin friendly, and NATO hostile, White House.

 

[ponderingturtle]

So you believe that Trump will simply continue the Obama policy but without the toothless "red lines" and warnings?

Hell we will give them intelligence support I am sure. The secretary of state will need to keep in Putins good gaces to make sure putin keeps letting him access his oil fields.

 

[cmikes]

Your assessment appears to be formed by confirmation bias.

Really? Where has Putin failed to achieve his goals? His proxies in Syria are slowly regaining control of the country, as recent news has recounted. His proxies in Ukraine are still fighting and making progress in overthrowing the government there and rejoining into the New Soviet Union.

However, I am using the word based on this.


Which Putin's efforts have paid off in spades, with a Putin friendly, and NATO hostile, White House.

Well, yeah. While I still don't see why Putin would have a vendetta against Clinton, I pretty much completely agree with the second part of your quote. That's the problem. President Obama and Clinton/Kerry as Secretaries of State have left us in the worst foreign policy position since Jimmy Carter at least. It's going to take years, if not decades to restore American credibility to the rest of the world. Credibility, once it's lost, can be very difficult, if not impossible to restore. Is Trump up to the job? I don't think so, which is just one of the reasons I didn't support or vote for him.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... Besides which, Trump may be corruptible by business interests, where we know for a fact that Clinton already is.

That's a steaming pile of unsupported BS.

... All Putin would have to do is have a middleman "donate" several million dollars to the Clinton slush fund Foundation and he could do anything he wanted as far as Clinton's concerned.

Again, you can't support this claim with anything resembling evidence.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm in no way supporting Trump. He may turn out to be just as bad if not worse than Obama and Clinton/Kerry. I'm just making the point that the meme that Putin is intimidated, to the point that he would try to influence the US election, by someone he completely humiliated during her tenure as Secretary of State is completely asinine.

You bought the lies about Clinton hook, line and sinker.

 

[The Don]

Really? Where has Putin failed to achieve his goals? His proxies in Syria are slowly regaining control of the country, as recent news has recounted. His proxies in Ukraine are still fighting and making progress in overthrowing the government there and rejoining into the New Soviet Union.

I think you've answered your own question there - Ukraine is unfinished business.

Putin also has the embarrassing issue of sanctions to deal with and of course the recent issues with the Admiral Kuznetsov in the Med have been a big knock for Russian prestige.

Russia also has big problems with doping in sport - another huge knock for national prestige.

Doesn't Russia also have unfinished business in Georgia ?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Really? Where has Putin failed to achieve his goals? His proxies in Syria are slowly regaining control of the country, as recent news has recounted. His proxies in Ukraine are still fighting and making progress in overthrowing the government there and rejoining into the New Soviet Union.

The embargo likely cost him a few billion personally in his deal with Exon. Fortunately that will no longer be an issue.