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Putin Personally Involved in Hack

I think I'm beginning to understand the narrative. It's Trump’s fault that Putin (allegedly) hacked White House comms. It's Putin's fault that Trump was elected.

The current administration are not to be held accountable for this (alleged) massive security breach on their watch. They're just victims like all the whiners who arrogantly lost an election.

That about it?

Aside from being totally wrong with virtually every syllable, you're pretty well spot on.

It's Trump’s fault that Putin (allegedly) hacked White House comms.
No, that would be Putin's fault.

It's Putin's fault that Trump was elected.
That one sure appears to be right. Well done! :thumbsup:


The current administration are not to be held accountable for this (alleged) massive security breach on their watch.

They should be held to account more than is currently happening.

They're just victims like all the whiners who arrogantly lost an election.

Hyperbole much?

Do you think Russia/Putin had ZERO to do with the election results here?
 
No, your joy at the likely disaster and cheering foreign attacks on the US for the sake of your own profit is what makes it like treason. Did you thank Bin Laden after 9/11 because you had stock in coffin makers? Simply making 'a profit' is not enough to draw that criticism.


"joy at the likely disaster" -- What disaster? You mean when hacks like Paul Krugman hysterically announced that the markets would "never" recover and now we're at all time highs? Yeah, that was terrible.

"cheering foreign attacks" -- I'm not cheering foreign attacks. I was laughing at people like Krugman getting his ass handed to him for his idiotic markets will "never" recover prediction. Now I'm laughing at crybabies on the left equating losing an election with actual terrorism.

"like treason" -- For an ideology that's constantly crying about "safe spaces" and "trigger warnings," you folks on the left sure are free with your insults.
 
.
Hyperbole much?

Do you think Russia/Putin had ZERO to do with the election results here?

I have expressed my suspicions already in this thread. I'm prepared to believe it with proof. Is there any? The point I made in my first post in this thread, was about the source of this latest information. Anonymous. Are there documents in evidence to support the allegations?

I can see how things might all lead to the conspiracy being true, but at this point I fail to see how my 'wait and see' attitude is wrong.

My "hyperbole" was both my commentary on how I read the general consensus of this thread, and also a mocking of same.

"It's Putin's fault that Trump was elected" You agree, yet I'm "virtually" "totally wrong".

To say this, is to excuse the current administration, including the secretary of state and the intelligence network, of their failings to protect the integrity of their national security. It's a systematic failure. I speak from a politically agnostic p.o.v.

If it turns out that the Exxon connection and Putin's meddling, and Trump's compliancy (puppet status?) are proven to be connected and factual, I'll be right there with you, condemning it all. But I won't be any less critical of the current administration for allowing it to happen. As well as the obvious national security issues, there is the question of failure to protect self interests there. It's what I meant about whining and arrogance. If this stuff is all true? They dropped the ball. Obama, Biden, Hillary, et al.

The Clinton emails. Nothing incriminating was found. No fault was found in using the private server. Yet I think it's fair to say that the whole thing did insurmountable damage to her campaign. She knew she was on Putin's list. She always has known. She was advised to use secure gov servers, but she didn't.

It all feels like arrogance to me. And I don't single out Hillary Clinton either. I put it down to the administration, and the Democratic Party. They got too comfortable. Too confident.
 
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"joy at the likely disaster" -- What disaster? You mean when hacks like Paul Krugman hysterically announced that the markets would "never" recover and now we're at all time highs? Yeah, that was terrible.

"cheering foreign attacks" -- I'm not cheering foreign attacks. I was laughing at people like Krugman getting his ass handed to him for his idiotic markets will "never" recover prediction. Now I'm laughing at crybabies on the left equating losing an election with actual terrorism.

"like treason" -- For an ideology that's constantly crying about "safe spaces" and "trigger warnings," you folks on the left sure are free with your insults.

You explicitly said you wanted to thank you to Putin for his attack on the US resulting in you making money.

And I equated an attack on the US with an attack on the US. Even if Putin's favorite candidate had not won, it would be worth discussing and countering.

This is the new right wing. Go ahead and attack our democracy as long as I make money in the short term. I was right, you'll pick up the brown shirt as soon as they tell you to.
 
Oh, so now you're actually defending Obama, because the nuke deal has done more to address that than anything anyone else has proposed that could actually be done successfully. What was that about Obama not doing anything?

No, tyr. This is delusional. Obama has given Iran billions of dollars. He has enabled their nuclear program. The deal is a sham, and anyone who swallows Ben Rhodes' propaganda about it is a rube.

Is there any reason at all to believe that Trump would do either of those?

I think Mattis might.

Clinton was the one who was going to be harder on Russia.

Sure. She just needs a second reset.

Guess it's time to formally address this specific fallacious reasoning that's been repeated incessantly, often in the form of 'stage of grief'.

It's just an ad hom. That's all it is.

Wrong as usual. It's not an ad hom, it's gloating.

What exactly do you think you're arguing here? That the EPA is harmful? That we would be better without it? That business would do it better? No, you're just providing a knee-jerk reaction strike rather than deal with the actual criticism.

And what does that actual criticism consist of? Chicken little proclamations about what would happen if there was no EPA at all. But that's not what's going to happen. The real issue is about balance. The EPA has in fact been very harmful on many occasions. It really does need to be reigned in. But Trump won't abolish it. The knee-jerk reaction here is your own position. I'm just mocking it, because it rightly deserves to be mocked.

Wow, the irony meters better be turned off. You criticisms apply more to Trump than anyone else yet you constantly fight against the (absolutely true) narrative that Trump's ideas and appointees are going to be disastrous, 'because Obama'.

Obama has been disastrous on a number of fronts. That you not only didn't see it beforehand but can't even recognize it afterwards indicates that your predictions about what will happen under Trump are not to be taken seriously.

But attacking the left is more important than country or even your own ideas.

You are in no position to lecture me about partisanship. You're just a more polite version of Tony Stark.
 
You explicitly said you wanted to thank you to Putin for his attack on the US resulting in you making money.

No he didn't. He asked who to thank. And it was obviously a joke, intended to point out how silly it is to assign responsibility for everything to just one person.
 
No he didn't. He asked who to thank. And it was obviously a joke, intended to point out how silly it is to assign responsibility for everything to just one person.

Tyr doesn't seem to get it, one of those grief stages. They're all running together now.
 
You explicitly said you wanted to thank you to Putin for his attack on the US resulting in you making money.

And I equated an attack on the US with an attack on the US. Even if Putin's favorite candidate had not won, it would be worth discussing and countering.

This is the new right wing. Go ahead and attack our democracy as long as I make money in the short term. I was right, you'll pick up the brown shirt as soon as they tell you to.


Jokingly asking if I should thank Trump or Putin for sending markets to all time highs after left-wing shills like Krugman tried to panic the market with claims that it would "never" recover is something akin to "treason"?

Brace yourselves, folks. Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet.
 
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Why would Anthony Wiener want to get Donald Trump elected?

Weiner would be drawn to a "deal" with prosecutors to help his current situation more than just being supportive of Trump. There could be some personal stuff going on as well since Huma and Hillary were so close. Chris B.
 
Well Trump's biggest sycophant, Kaley whatever on CNN just said putin DID hack us, and that it was "an act of war"

So....

Can we please dispense with the "he didn't do it" crap?
 
Well Trump's biggest sycophant, Kaley whatever on CNN just said putin DID hack us, and that it was "an act of war"

So....

Can we please dispense with the "he didn't do it" crap?

Wait, you want us to trust the word of the trumpistas?
 
No, tyr. This is delusional. Obama has given Iran billions of dollars. He has enabled their nuclear program. The deal is a sham, and anyone who swallows Ben Rhodes' propaganda about it is a rube.

You're simply wrong. There wasn't a single good alternatives to the deal, which was actually a lot better than we could have realistically hoped for. This has been pointed out to you over and over in other threads, but this thread isn't really about that anyway. 'Don't look at the hacking, it's the Iran nukes!'



I think Mattis might.


Oh I think he might want to, but will be limited by Trump's own conflicts, and those of his other appointees.



Sure. She just needs a second reset.

You have a quip, not an argument. Putin obviously thought she was a more dangerous foe for him.



Wrong as usual. It's not an ad hom, it's gloating.

It can be gloating, but it's been used as an ad hom here as well. A lot.



And what does that actual criticism consist of? Chicken little proclamations about what would happen if there was no EPA at all. But that's not what's going to happen. The real issue is about balance. The EPA has in fact been very harmful on many occasions. It really does need to be reigned in. But Trump won't abolish it. The knee-jerk reaction here is your own position. I'm just mocking it, because it rightly deserves to be mocked.

Balance? By appointing someone who has said they want to do exactly what my 'chicken little proclamation' said to head it?

I've seen you make this kind of pedantic argument before, but an EPA that doesn't do anything isn't any better than an abolished EPA. It can in fact be much worse. Selective enforcement against those not in the government's (Trump's) pocket, while looking the other way for the friends can encourage responsible actors out of industry.

You want knee-jerk? That would be your constant deflection and hand-waving from all criticisms of Trump. The crazy thing is I know you have criticisms of him, but it's so much more important to you to be attack 'the left', that you will go out of your way to not understand what is meant in a criticism and apply this much harsher reading to every point made against the right. You think Trump's appointments will 'balance' the EPA? That's more wrong than saying it will literally be abolished.



Obama has been disastrous on a number of fronts. That you not only didn't see it beforehand but can't even recognize it afterwards indicates that your predictions about what will happen under Trump are not to be taken seriously.


That you keep asserting that Obama has been disastrous has more to do with your agenda and beliefs than with reality. It really burns you up that he's been as popular and successful as he has been, otherwise why apply this weird standard of holding him to doing great on everything? He's done better than I expected, especially with Republicans dispensing with civic duty and good faith efforts.

And what does this have to do with what we can and should do about Putin's attacks? Your cry of 'Obama hasn't fixed it!' is Captain Obvious useless.



You are in no position to lecture me about partisanship. You're just a more polite version of Tony Stark.

Oh, thank you for saying I'm more polite than Tony Stark, but your assessment of such things has long since ceased being something I put weight in. It actually upsets me a great deal that I have to admit that Tony and Travis have been more right about so many on the right than I have been. I still hold out hope for the independents though.

You've given up your science and critical thinking advocacy to make room for political tribalism on climate and pollution issues. You've given up on making good faith arguments on politics because gloating and lecturing about lying in threads you lied to everyone in. So don't be surprised that I no longer believe it won't go down as it has with so many cult of personality demagogues in so many other cases. Unless Putin's favorite loses power, he'll drag people into doing abhorrent things. Well, more abhorrent. Already got you to try deflecting from interference in our elections.
 
Jokingly asking if I should thank Trump or Putin for sending markets to all time highs after left-wing shills like Krugman tried to panic the market with claims that it would "never" recover is something akin to "treason"?

Brace yourselves, folks. Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet.


I know you were joking, but you were joking on the square. You really do care more about making a quick buck than the integrity of our elections.

It's also poor form to use hyperbole then bitch about someone using your own hyperbole back at you.

But yes, brace yourself. Trump's going to either flame out fast, or take your portfolio down with the rest of the country's influence.
 
What do you think should be done about this foreign attack on the US?
The current CNN story says Obama is vowing retaliation, then includes no quote from Obama saying anything like that.

This is very irresponsible IMO.

Link in case someone can find something I missed.
 
The current CNN story says Obama is vowing retaliation, then includes no quote from Obama saying anything like that.

This is very irresponsible IMO.

Link in case someone can find something I missed.

I saw a clip of him saying there would be retaliation at "a time of our choosing." He said some would be made public after the fact, but some would be a "direct" message to Russia that wouldn't be public.
 
The same people who told you on the day of election that Killary had a 98% chance of winning are now running these stories.
:rolleyes:

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/R9GpjSs.jpg[/qimg]
The only true polls are the bookies. Just prior to the election, most appear to have offered odds of about 1:5 on a Clinton win suggesting that they believed that they believed there was a greater than 80% chance of a Clinton win. (http://metro.co.uk/2016/11/07/us-el...-bookies-favourite-over-donald-trump-6241099/).

Either way, the pollsters were way off though the bookies would have cleaned up if most bettors put their money on Hillary.
 
You're simply wrong. There wasn't a single good alternatives to the deal, which was actually a lot better than we could have realistically hoped for. This has been pointed out to you over and over in other threads, but this thread isn't really about that anyway. 'Don't look at the hacking, it's the Iran nukes!'






Oh I think he might want to, but will be limited by Trump's own conflicts, and those of his other appointees.





You have a quip, not an argument. Putin obviously thought she was a more dangerous foe for him.





It can be gloating, but it's been used as an ad hom here as well. A lot.





Balance? By appointing someone who has said they want to do exactly what my 'chicken little proclamation' said to head it?

I've seen you make this kind of pedantic argument before, but an EPA that doesn't do anything isn't any better than an abolished EPA. It can in fact be much worse. Selective enforcement against those not in the government's (Trump's) pocket, while looking the other way for the friends can encourage responsible actors out of industry.

You want knee-jerk? That would be your constant deflection and hand-waving from all criticisms of Trump. The crazy thing is I know you have criticisms of him, but it's so much more important to you to be attack 'the left', that you will go out of your way to not understand what is meant in a criticism and apply this much harsher reading to every point made against the right. You think Trump's appointments will 'balance' the EPA? That's more wrong than saying it will literally be abolished.






That you keep asserting that Obama has been disastrous has more to do with your agenda and beliefs than with reality. It really burns you up that he's been as popular and successful as he has been, otherwise why apply this weird standard of holding him to doing great on everything? He's done better than I expected, especially with Republicans dispensing with civic duty and good faith efforts.

And what does this have to do with what we can and should do about Putin's attacks? Your cry of 'Obama hasn't fixed it!' is Captain Obvious useless.





Oh, thank you for saying I'm more polite than Tony Stark, but your assessment of such things has long since ceased being something I put weight in. It actually upsets me a great deal that I have to admit that Tony and Travis have been more right about so many on the right than I have been. I still hold out hope for the independents though.

You've given up your science and critical thinking advocacy to make room for political tribalism on climate and pollution issues. You've given up on making good faith arguments on politics because gloating and lecturing about lying in threads you lied to everyone in. So don't be surprised that I no longer believe it won't go down as it has with so many cult of personality demagogues in so many other cases. Unless Putin's favorite loses power, he'll drag people into doing abhorrent things. Well, more abhorrent. Already got you to try deflecting from interference in our elections.

That's one of the more ridiculous posts I've read.
 

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