Darlie Routier

Henri McPhee said:
All I am getting is a load of opinions about the Routier case from the internet, and not enough facts. I still think the husband, Darin, is a suspicious character and that he was never thoroughly or properly investigated. Just saying he only had a few thousand dollars of life insurance on his family without backing it up with hard documentary evidence does not convince me. The police and FBI just thought it was an open and shut case and they are comfortable with it. I have my doubts about it and very little confidence in it.

This is an affidavit by Darin Routier. It doesn't convince me but instead raises my eyebrows:
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https://darliefacts.com

The above link (yes, pro-Darlie site) has all the transcripts, appeals, reports, notes, photos, etc. that are available to the public. You can easily ignore any of opinion stuff on the site and just focus on the factual things.

I agree Darin seems pretty shady and should have been investigated. That said, I just don't see how he would have had the time to commit the crime himself. I won't rule out that he could have hired someone to commit a crime at his house but then we need to figure out what crime he wanted to commit. Was it a burglary gone wrong or was it a murder for hire? Either way he's legally guilty of murder so maybe it doesn't really matter which crime he wanted carried out.

According to James Cron he decided "the mother" was involved within thirty minutes of viewing the crime scene so it's possible Darin was being investigated during those other twenty-nine minutes. /s Patterson, lead investigator for Rowlett Police Department, testified for the prosecution during the bail hearing and later was called to testify by the defense (was not called to testify by the prosecution). His testimony can be summed up pretty easily... "I didn't talk to any of the officers who responded to the scene other than the ones who were still there when I showed up. I didn't take any notes. I didn't talk to any of the paramedics. I didn't read any reports from witnesses. I didn't talk to any of the neighbors. I didn't investigate any of the tips that were called in. I didn't check with any neighboring police departments to see if there were similar crimes in the area. I spoke to Darin and Darlie two or three times maybe."

In Cron's defense in the television interview he gave wherein he remarked that the mother was involved he did state that at that point investigators need to do "what is called a dual investigation." Considering how thoroughly Detective Patterson investigated Darlie it doesn't appear he had much time to investigate anyone else. /s
 
desmirelle said:
So did I, but it's not unless you agree with the idea of Darlie's innocence.
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I'm not sure that's what he said. The way I read it he seems to be saying a discussion of the facts for those people unfamiliar with the case would be more productive than a discussion about your opinion of her moral character.
 
Sinsaint said:
I'm not sure that's what he said. The way I read it he seems to be saying a discussion of the facts for those people unfamiliar with the case would be more productive than a discussion about your opinion of her moral character.
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OK. However, I believe that opinions about her moral character are, as with any case, valid as circumstantial evidence, if that evidence is based on fact. Such as a pattern of behavior.

I have examples, but am hesitant to bring them up. It seems that the direction this discussion is taking is to paint Darlie as a victim. After following this case closely from the beginning, perhaps I need to leave it alone for awhile.
 
Sinsaint said:
I'm not sure that's what he said. The way I read it he seems to be saying a discussion of the facts for those people unfamiliar with the case would be more productive than a discussion about your opinion of her moral character.
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Actually, I quoted him. So, yeah, that's what he said. And my opinion of her moral character is it's bad since she killed her oldest two children. Other than that, she could be a stripper or a hooker for all I care of her morals. I disapprove of her murdering her two boys. I also think she should have tried for a post-partum psychosis since her original reason for sleeping downstairs was that she was getting no sleep since Drake woke her every time he moved.
 
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I was watching an American TV show called 'women on death row' yesterday and I noticed they were discussing the Darlie Routier case. I don't normally watch that show as it's not a bundle of laughs. It's mostly rather sad cases of women who thought they would never be caught.

It started off with a policeman saying the physical evidence proves Darlie did it, and that her footprints were at the kitchen sink, and she is right where she belongs. Then Barbara Davies was interviewed who once wrote an anti-Darlie book, but she has since changed her mind. She said that not all photos were shown to the jury and evidence after evidence was not presented at trial. She then said there were fingerprints in blood with no known source.

Then Darlie's new lawyer, who I think is called Stephen Cooper, said that she is totally innocent and that bloody clothing was all bagged in the same bag causing contamination, and that the prosecution have never shown any motive. I agree that the rules of evidence don't require a motive, but I still think it's relevant. I suppose the prosecution think it was a suicide attempt.

Then Darlie's mother and sister were interviewed who said that the police don't want to admit a mistake because it would make them look like idiots.

The sock was not explained. There was a butcher's knife stuck in the grass outside which was never collected as evidence until a local DA ordered it to be collected at the start of the trial.

I just think the local police and FBI were not a proper homicide unit. They were mostly working class constables who knew nothing about the protection of a crime scene, or being a crime scene manager, and they disregarded leads and suspects. They had no practical knowledge or homicide experience.

According to that TV show Darlie is not allowed to associate with other prisoners because she is on death row.

I still think the original defense strategy was correct in trying to blame it on to the husband Darin, but that Darin wangled it so that Darlie would be represented by Darin's lawyer.

This is what Sinsaint in 2013 has said about this footprints at the kitchen sink matter which according to the police is supposed to be the conclusive evidence:

The prosecution never explained why she would have cut her neck at the sink. Just that they "know she did" because the sink appeared to be clean so she must have washed it out. The theory is she cut herself there and cleaned it so no one would know she was cut there instead of on the sofa.

I have at least three problems with this theory. First, there is blood all over the front lip of the sink, on the cabinets below, puddles on the floor and blood on the drawer with the towels. If she were attempting to clean the area so it didn't look as if she stabbed herself there then she did a really terrible job. Secondly, the audio expert for the state testified the ambient levels on the 911 call showed she was going from the kitchen to living room to kitchen to living room repeatedly. If she were busy running around around the whole time, when was she cleaning the sink? And there's plenty of cleaning products just below the sink yet they were untouched. Third, had she truly stabbed herself at the kitchen sink then why is her blood on the couch, pillow and blanket she was using?

With all the elements required for this type of staging and the limited time required to do so I just can't see it as being reasonably possible.
Sinsaint
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Henri McPhee said:
I was watching an American TV show called 'women on death row' yesterday and I noticed they were discussing the Darlie Routier case. I don't normally watch that show as it's not a bundle of laughs. It's mostly rather sad cases of women who thought they would never be caught.

It started off with a policeman saying the physical evidence proves Darlie did it, and that her footprints were at the kitchen sink, and she is right where she belongs. Then Barbara Davies was interviewed who once wrote an anti-Darlie book, but she has since changed her mind. She said that not all photos were shown to the jury and evidence after evidence was not presented at trial. She then said there were fingerprints in blood with no known source.

Then Darlie's new lawyer, who I think is called Stephen Cooper, said that she is totally innocent and that bloody clothing was all bagged in the same bag causing contamination, and that the prosecution have never shown any motive. I agree that the rules of evidence don't require a motive, but I still think it's relevant. I suppose the prosecution think it was a suicide attempt.

Then Darlie's mother and sister were interviewed who said that the police don't want to admit a mistake because it would make them look like idiots.

The sock was not explained. There was a butcher's knife stuck in the grass outside which was never collected as evidence until a local DA ordered it to be collected at the start of the trial.

I just think the local police and FBI were not a proper homicide unit. They were mostly working class constables who knew nothing about the protection of a crime scene, or being a crime scene manager, and they disregarded leads and suspects. They had no practical knowledge or homicide experience.

According to that TV show Darlie is not allowed to associate with other prisoners because she is on death row.

I still think the original defense strategy was correct in trying to blame it on to the husband Darin, but that Darin wangled it so that Darlie would be represented by Darin's lawyer.

This is what Sinsaint in 2013 has said about this footprints at the kitchen sink matter which according to the police is supposed to be the conclusive evidence:
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This is all most interesting.
I can't see what Sinsaint is pointing to with the pillow, but the case trajectory looks like a sure miscarriage.
I am essentially passive and will look for someone to bring that irrefutable data point showing she must be guilty.
Otherwise she is innocent.
Maybe Ampulla can help with that data point. Wasapi seems to be now ambivalent. Charlie Wilkes seemed pretty sure but his analysis leaves him open to an innocent view.
 
Samson said:
That is interesting because Charlie Wilkes earlier in the thread said,

I don't know, but I'd like to have about 10 times more crime scene photos than what I have seen over the years. One of the problems with her story is that she says she was sleeping on the couch when she was stabbed or cut with the knife. The photos I have seen don't show any blood on the couch, and you'd sure expect to see some.

Her supporters say there was blood on the couch, but it doesn't show in the photos, and the couch was discarded after the crime. Kind of like the windshield on Kennedy's limo...

So that seems to be answered.
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I bought a book in a bookstore in Dallas years ago that has a bunch of the Routier crime-scene photos in it. (As I recall it isn't much of a book -- just crime scene pictures with some comments here and there. The author had a display set up in the book store where I purchased it, so it is probably autographed.) One of the photos clearly shows what looks like blood on the top of the back-rest of the couch. It seemed to me to be significant, but what are the chances this guy got hold of a significant crime-scene photo and put it in a book, but the defense never saw it?

I'll see if I can find the book in the next day or two and drop by here with an update. It's been over ten years since I even thought about it.
 
BrooklynBaby said:
I bought a book in a bookstore in Dallas years ago that has a bunch of the Routier crime-scene photos in it. (As I recall it isn't much of a book -- just crime scene pictures with some comments here and there. The author had a display set up in the book store where I purchased it, so it is probably autographed.) One of the photos clearly shows what looks like blood on the top of the back-rest of the couch. It seemed to me to be significant, but what are the chances this guy got hold of a significant crime-scene photo and put it in a book, but the defense never saw it?

I'll see if I can find the book in the next day or two and drop by here with an update. It's been over ten years since I even thought about it.
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That would be really useful. If this woman is innocent it is as bad an mOJ as it gets.
Death row and your children dead when a serial operator did the crime is right out there, but villagers show no mercy.
They don't care, we see it all the time. Hang em high the witches.

Charlie is seriously encyclopedic, and expected to be right, but I back Sinsaint here so far.
 
Henri McPhee said:
(snipped)



Then Darlie's mother and sister were interviewed who said that the police don't want to admit a mistake because it would make them look like idiots.

The sock was not explained. There was a butcher's knife stuck in the grass outside which was never collected as evidence until a local DA ordered it to be collected at the start of the trial.
:
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Speaking of the sister and mother, anyone really interested in this case should do some research on Mama Kee's behavior and actions since the trial.
 
wasapi said:
Speaking of the sister and mother, anyone really interested in this case should do some research on Mama Kee's behavior and actions since the trial.
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Clearly you'd much rather focus on character assassination because you don't have the ability to present anything factual about the case that can't be easily disputed.
 
Ampulla of Vater said:
FTFY
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This from the person who stated Darlie was not raped without qualifying that with a "based on your opinion only" so as not to mislead anyone into thinking your statement was a proven fact. But I'm sure you have some type of ridiculous, barely plausible excuse for that.
 
I'll admit: this whole case is strange for me - both from the perspective that Darlie did it and her story of a stranger.

I don't put much into the whole "dancing around the grave" story because people DO react strangely at grief at times, but more the "who else?" part of this crime. I mean, who else but Darlie? Why leave her alive while brutally killing her children? That part makes no sense. Which is why I tend to think she did it.

But then there's the sort of ****** evidence that she did.

Yeah, conflicted.
 
Sinsaint said:
This from the person who stated Darlie was not raped without qualifying that with a "based on your opinion only" so as not to mislead anyone into thinking your statement was a proven fact. But I'm sure you have some type of ridiculous, barely plausible excuse for that.
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Per Darlie's numerous statements to the police at the scene, she was not raped.

Per Darlie's direct court testimony, she was not raped.

There, is that better?
 
Ampulla of Vater said:
Per Darlie's numerous statements to the police at the scene, she was not raped.

Per Darlie's direct court testimony, she was not raped.

There, is that better?
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Per Darlie's numerous statements she thought she "felt pressure down there."

Per Darlie's testimony she wasn't sure what happened.

Per Darlie's appeal there was a request for the state to turn over the missing rape kit.

Those would be better statements because they reflect the record accurately.
 
There is an interesting article on the internet about the latest developments in the Darlie Routiier case at:

https://youcouldbewrong.wordpress.com/tag/darlie-routier-dna-evidence/

A federal judge in Texas denied a prosecution request to dismiss Darlie Routier’s new trial request without further investigation. He has urged attorneys on both sides to go forward with DNA testing at the state level. Darlie Routier has been on death row since 1996 after two of her three sons were found dead in the home the family lived in. She and two of her sons, Devon, 6, and Damon, 5, were sleeping downstairs while her other son, Drake, a newborn, was sleeping upstairs with her husband, Darin, on June 6, 1996. Routier maintained an intruder entered the home, killed her sons and seriously injured her with several knife wounds. Police and prosecutors believed that Routier killed her sons and stabbed herself. Routier was arrested and convicted. She was sentenced to death and has been fighting her conviction for almost 20 years.

The case moved through Texas state courts and is now in the U.S. District Court in San Antonio. Routier’s lawyers, in a 58-page motion, have raised several issues challenging the state’s theory on the case including, the handling of evidence and inadequate assistance of defense counsel at the trial level. The appellate lawyers argue that her defense attorneys did not effectively challenge the prosecution’s motive that Routier murdered her sons for financial reasons and then tried to make it look like an intruder committed the crime.

The federal review has been on hold for 6 years, so that DNA tests can be done. Some tests have been completed and Routier’s defense believes it supports Routier’s claims of innocence. Other tests remain including a bloody fingerprint, a bloody sock found outside the home, and Routier’s nightgown. The judge ordered that the remaining DNA testing begin by June 30th of this year and that he receive status reports every 180 days after that date.A federal judge in Texas denied a prosecution request to dismiss Darlie Routier’s new trial request without further investigation. He has urged attorneys on both sides to go forward with DNA testing at the state level. Darlie Routier has been on death row since 1996 after two of her three sons were found dead in the home the family lived in. She and two of her sons, Devon, 6, and Damon, 5, were sleeping downstairs while her other son, Drake, a newborn, was sleeping upstairs with her husband, Darin, on June 6, 1996. Routier maintained an intruder entered the home, killed her sons and seriously injured her with several knife wounds. Police and prosecutors believed that Routier killed her sons and stabbed herself. Routier was arrested and convicted. She was sentenced to death and has been fighting her conviction for almost 20 years.
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