Who killed Meredith Kercher? part 23

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abaddon said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVDXyE6HnBg&t=17

Have another.

Vixen claims both are impossible.
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This video is a fantastic analogue for the rock thrown through Romanelli's window: the glass pane is of a similar size and of similar (thin, single-pane) glass, and the projectile is a rock of similar size thrown at similar velocity.

And the video shows, clear as day, that there's no visible rearward projection of glass fragments after impact. If any glass fragments HAVE been projected rearwards from that impact, they will be of extremely small size and few in number. One can see glass fragments being thrown forward into the interior of the building from the direct area of the impact (at greater velocity than the impact velocity of the rock....), with a few small pieces of glass falling vertically downward, and in this instance the glass beyond the profile area of the rock actually remains in situ, although cracked.

This is totally in keeping with other experiments throwing a rock through thin, single-pane glass panes of around this size. No visible glass fragments are thrown rearwards, plenty of small glass fragments are thrown forward into the interior at relatively high speed, and the glass outside of that through which the rock has actually passed either remains in situ with cracks, or some fairly large portions of it break away and fall vertically downwards.

And when translated to the scenario in Perugia, this would mean that one would expect to find a fair number of glass fragments thrown quite far into Romanelli's room, a small number of pieces of glass dropping vertically down onto the large, deep stone exterior windowsill*, and only a very small number of extremely small glass fragments being thrown rearwards to land on the ground underneath Romanelli's window. Oh, guess what? That's exactly what WAS found! Fancy that!


* In this instance, it's likely that some of the glass found on the sill was as a result of glass pieces dropping vertically from the impact, but that other pieces of glass found on the sill were those that had been manually removed by Guede when he entered - removed in order to allow him to reach through easily and safely to unclasp the casement, swing open the window, and climb inside. And all of the glass found on the sill had been moved to one side manually (in order to allow Guede to place his arms and body onto the sill safely without having to place arms/body onto glass pieces) and had then been pushed in when Guede pulled in the exterior shutters to conceal the broken window from being visible from the outside (the exterior shutter "swept" the glass pieces inwards as it was pulled closed)
 
Sargent Pasquali rocks out

Link to video of his reconstruction. By analyzing the trajectory of the rock and the projection of the glass shards, Pasquali said he could "exclude that the glass could have been broken from the inside." As reported by Ann Wise of ABC news.
 
This post is intended as an investigation of what can be learned about the window breakage using elementary Newtonian physics. The specific goal is to estimate a minimum velocity the rock would need to break the window and produce a distribution of shards within the room.

The first task of a rock thrower seeking to break a window, or a baseball pitcher aiming to strike out a batter, is to get the thrown rock or baseball to the target area, which is some distance away. For the baseball pitcher, this means getting the ball within the strike zone over home plate - a distance of 60.6 feet (about 18.4 meters) from the pitcher's plate on the pitching mound. For the rock thrower, this means throwing a rock of mass 4 kg from his position on the rampart facing Filomena Romelli's window to the window 3 meters (about 10 feet) away, with enough velocity for the rock to break the window.

One important principle of physics many of us learn from experience is that if one is throwing an object to reach a target some distance away, the object must be thrown hard enough – that is, for it to go fast enough – to cover the distance. Otherwise, the object will fall to the ground (or floor, if one is indoors) before reaching the target, because of earth's gravity.

Elementary Newtonian physics gives a method to calculate what the minimum velocity the thrown object must have to reach the target. The method is based on the observations that the time required for a thrown object (with a non-zero velocity relative to the earth's surface) to fall is the same as the time required for that object (with no velocity relative to the earth's surface) to fall, when air resistance (drag) and lift are negligible, or may be ignored. The situation of the object falling only under the force of gravity is called free-fall and the method is summarized online in:

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/1DKin/Lesson-6/Kinematic-Equations-and-Free-Fall

Assumptions
1. The rock thrower is, of course, tall enough and with a good enough throwing arm to accomplish the task. The rock is thrown over-hand, with the arm extended above the head, and gripped somewhat like an American football rather than a baseball, with the ground of the rampart a distance d = -2 m from the vertical position of the rock when it is launched.
2. The effects of air resistance (drag) and lift, if any, on the rock will not be considered for the first estimate.
3. The acceleration of gravity near the earth's surface, g, is the generally used value: g = -9.8 m/s^2; see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_of_Earth
4. The rock must travel a minimum horizontal distance L = 3.5m; this value of L includes a “safety factor” of 0.5m intended to assure that the rock has enough horizontal velocity to penetrate the window glass at 3.0m from the thrower. The value of 3m is from the testimony of Marshal Francesco Pasquali.


Calculation of the free-fall time, t

t = square_root(2d/g)
t = square_root(2*(-2m)/(-9.8m/s^2))
t = 0.639s

Calculation of the average horizontal velocity, v_r-h-avg of the rock

v_r-h-avg = L/t
v_r-h-avg = 3.5m/0.639s
v_r-h-avg = 5.5m/s

Thus, the minimum horizontal velocity of the rock at launch, assuming negligible air resistance on the rock in its short flight, is the modest value of

5.5m/s = 19.7km/h = 12.3miles/h.

While Marshal Pasquali apparently did not measure the rock's velocity in his 3 test trials performed from 3m away from the test window, the window was indeed broken on each trial, and the glass shard pattern produced in the room was qualitatively similar to the one in Romelli's room as photographed by the police. Marshal Pasquali's work by itself establishes that there was no objective support for the allegation of the police that the break-in had been staged with the rock thrown within the room.
 
Here's the deal.

This thread has done infinitely more investigation into the dynamics of Rudy's break-in through Filomena's window than the original Perugian cops did in 2007.

It's because the cops back then did none. As far as they were concerned it was all a hunch on their part, and calling anyone who questioned them an idiot (or biased for the kids).

But there was no investigation back then - just prosecutorial assertions which transformed magically into judicial facts.
 
The prosecution didn't even try to get a fake expert to back up their claims of the rock being thrown from inside lol. It was basically "Yeah the defense has re-creations and the laws of physics...but look at that American **** sitting over there....come on....i mean come on people..." And Massei was like, the man has a point.
 
bagels said:
The prosecution didn't even try to get a fake expert to back up their claims of the rock being thrown from inside lol. It was basically "Yeah the defense has re-creations and the laws of physics...but look at that American **** sitting over there....come on....i mean come on people..." And Massei was like, the man has a point.
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I would challenge any of the nutcase-PGP to offer any respectable evidence that shows what Numbers or bagels has written is not what happened.

Maybe Vixen can start by amending a few of Newton's laws.
 
I once accused Vixen of knowing nothing about Newton's Laws.

She accused of picking on her because she had neither studied nor practised law.
 
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Bill Williams said:
I once accused Vixen of knowing nothing about Newton's Laws.

She accused of picking on her because she had neither studied nor practised law.
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Seriously though, the guilters have all devolved into self parody at this point. It's hard to watch.

Can't you guys just admit you've been wrong for the past... oh, uh... 8 years? Yeah maybe not lol, that's pretty *********** embarrassing. How are the letters to the Italian Supreme Court going about how Peter Gill, the top forensic geneticist in the world, is a paid shill for this random girl from Seattle? Have you guys organized the legal defense team for Rudy Guede's appeal yet? All for Mez lol.
 
NotEvenWrong said:
Seriously though, the guilters have all devolved into self parody at this point. It's hard to watch.

Can't you guys just admit you've been wrong for the past... oh, uh... 8 years? Yeah maybe not lol, that's pretty *********** embarrassing. How are the letters to the Italian Supreme Court going about how Peter Gill, the top forensic geneticist in the world, is a paid shill for this random girl from Seattle? Have you guys organized the legal defense team for Rudy Guede's appeal yet? All for Mez lol.
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If the remaining nutters do not wish to be regarded as....... er, nutters.....

...... then they should when writing to the Italian Supreme Court about Dr. Peter Gill, they should at least provide copy of the receipts of his shill-pay.

Back two or three years ago, one of the now departed PGP-nutters promised to post the receipts for Nov 2 bleach purchase from Quintavalle's store. Like Vixen's posting of a pic of the window below Filomena's claiming it showed there were no bars on the window - when the pic showed the opposite:

The receipt when eventually posted was for pizza!!!! The guy didn't even apologize!!!!
 
abaddon said:
Over a distance of two meters? Seriously?

Irrelevant.

The objective in shot putt and javelin is distance not accuracy. Why on earth would you think otherwise? Have you never seen those events?

If he were temporarily blinded, and even then only maybe. And even then there is nothing stopping further attempts.

Wait, so burglars can magically tell if allen key or security locks are A: present and B: applied correctly This is a deterrent which has a 100% success rate. This is now your claim?

None of those are required.

From two meters away? Direction? Seriously?

Sure. Burglars always set up a radar speed gun in the commission of their crimes. Everyone knows that, right?

Burglars attend trigonometry college. Everyone knows that, right?

Or second. Or third. Or fourth. If it works first time, great. If not, try again. Burglars do that.

Irrelevant. He wasn't playing cricket or tennis. He was heaving a rock.

Wrong. Never skipped stones on a lake?
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My favourite Olympic events - after running - are the field events, especially javelin, so I am aware of the effort and technique that goes into it. And upper body strength and thrusting technique is key.

Rudy was not a burglar, he had zero convictions and the claim he was the local burglar is a pure invention by friends of Amanda.
the fact is, the burglary is staged which is highly incriminating for Amanda. The desparate attempt to turn Rudy into the fictitious burglar is so laughable, when it was easy for him to knock on the door (which he probably did) or access the building via the low balcony around the other side, which was secluded from the main road, unlike Filomena's windwo.
 
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Bill Williams said:
You are making this up. If not, then you are quoting from someone else who made it up. Like your refusal to provide a cite from a forensic-DNA expert who stands by Stefanoni's work, you can provide no cite for this.

And no, the faki-wiki does not count. Quoting made-up factoids from that doesn't count.

If you're referring to the April Fool's prank which Amanda participated in before going to Italy, that hardly counts. The embellishments to that contained in your fiction above prove it.

I once asked Machiavelli on this very thread why such a thing as the April Fools prank even means anything...... his reply was to suggest that the way the whole of Seattle suppressed the story surrounding it, pointed to its importance. He said that the whole city of Seattle had been practising the Mafia discipline of Omerta to cover up such an obvious pre-behaviour to the crime in Perugia.

It was nonsense then, and it is nonsense when you simply pass on fiction. Either that or you're making it up on your own.
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It was not a prank, it was a disgusting act of thuggish bullying.
 
NotEvenWrong said:
Vixen, when we tell you that high school boys can regularly throw a 12 pound shot 50+ feet, what response does your brain come up with first:

a) Oh, well then, it looks like a grown athletic man that plays semi-professional basketball can probably throw a 9 pound rock a bit over 6 feet without too much trouble. Looks like I was wrong, my bad!

b) This is actually evidence that all of the high school athletic associations are paid off by the Amanda Knox PR campaign. Errmahgah!

c) Damnit don't they know I'm in MENSA and routinely beat national chess champions when I was only a toddler.

d) Static.
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Heh. It really sticks in your craw, eh?
 
Bill Williams said:
The PGP have been spending nine years turning the most minor of discrepancy or memory from Raffaele or Amanda calling "liar liar".

Vixen invents things from fantasy and expects us to believe her simply on her say so.
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Even your heroes Marasca-Bruno state the kids 'told umpteen lies'.

It is a legal fact. The pair of them are compulsive pathological liars.
 
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Bill Williams said:
I would challenge any of the nutcase-PGP to offer any respectable evidence that shows what Numbers or bagels has written is not what happened.

Maybe Vixen can start by amending a few of Newton's laws.
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The PGP has found out that Newton was part of the Masonic Mafia Marriott conspiracy supporting Knox and Sollecito.
 
Chris_Halkides said:
Link to video of his reconstruction. By analyzing the trajectory of the rock and the projection of the glass shards, Pasquali said he could "exclude that the glass could have been broken from the inside." As reported by Ann Wise of ABC news.
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LOL And as promulgated by Amanda Knox misinformation services, 'Injustice in Perugia' funded by 'Friends of Amanda'.
 
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