Tony Szamboti vs. tfk Debate

[NoahFence]

Imagine buildings with no bolts no welds, can you even imagine it? My time is now very limited one of the reason I haven't been on here much lately.

Ah... but will they fall into their footprint at free-fall speed?



Just kidding.

That actually sounds really neat. I wish you well.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Ah... but will they fall into their footprint at free-fall speed?



Just kidding.

That actually sounds really neat. I wish you well.

Yes if a microscopic black hole tunnels though the earth at near light speed.

Wait that could be the answer to twoofer's questions, let's see Tony debunk that possible
Reason for WTC 7's collapse.

He has to prove a microscopic black hole didn't pass though the earth increasing earth's gravity enough so the girder failed do to fire. In theory the black hole could have passed though so fast, that it didn't have time to suck much in.
Just cause girder failure, well I guess I earned my shill pay for the week with this one..

If your going to move goal posts make them jump mountains, oceans and galactic voids.

 

[Mark F]

My question for our resident truthers is this: What has now changed?

Well nothing obviously. Since both were arguing from false starting assumptions and could not even agree what they were discussing or why, and no actual conclusion was reached it was completely unproductive and therefore it is irrelevant who won.

A bit like winning the highest perch on the Titanic as she went down.

I am not aware of anyone's mind being changed by the results.

How many people even followed the debate? A dozen? Two dozen? So certainly the needle of public perception has not budged.

The debate has not changed the reality of what happened on 9/11/2001 nor obviously can it.

So other than one guy stroking his ego what was accomplished?

 

[Criteria]

The Voice of the Ballot Box

My question for our resident truthers is this: What has now changed?

Let's presume, for the sake of argument, that Tony has won the debate due to TFK defaulting. What is the significance of this victory? I can suggest a few subsidiary questions to elucidate.

Firstly, who has changed their mind about the facts of the matter, and now believes as a result of the debate that the building collapses on 9/11 were due to some pre-installed device rather than arising from the airliner crashes? Will this translate into broader public opinion, and if so, how?

Secondly, what does this mean for the future of the truth movement? We on this forum have repeatedly been accused of obstructing a new investigation, though the mechanism by which this obstruction has been achieved appears to be no more than a refusal to agree to the statements of the truthers who post here. Now that this debate has been adjudicated a victory for the truth movement, is the obstacle presented by our disagreement no longer effective? If so, what progress can we expect the truth movement to make now that this obstacle has been removed? If not, what would be required to remove this obstacle?

Thirdly, can we now expect a significant proportion of the structural engineering community to start supporting the truth movement view that the collapses cannot have been solely due to impact and fire damage, as a result of the debate?

If none of these questions have answers that favour renewed progress by the truth movement, what exactly has been achieved here, and what was the point of the debate in the first place?

Dave

Indeed. What has changed?

Dave. How does a member address your false presumption(s)?

tfk lost by default. He refused to respond further, gave no closing remarks, 'ghosted' the debate, and was found to be still active in the forum.

You ask; "What is the significance of this victory?"

It demonstrates to free thinkers that defending the official story about 9/11 is not as easy as they may have 'presumed'.

People like yourself brag about superior arguments and how easy it is to quash the research of the "truthers". tfk provided a nice example of the "emperor's new clothes'. tfk 'talked the talk' but totally failed to 'walk the walk'.

tfk sewed more seeds of doubt regarding the 9/11 official story.

Considering that a lot of what lead to America's 'loss of greatness' following 9/11 is a result of how the government and its lobbyists reacted, tfk's stunning inability to support the conclusions arrived at by the government's 9/11 investigation undermines the credibility of their chosen military actions.

This is where public opinion played its part. You are aware that Hillary is soon to be just another rich, unemployed lawyer, are you not?

American voters, desperate and disillusioned in their hopes that Obama would clean up the cesspool of corruption and dysfunction in Washington D.C., showed their anger at the ballot box.

Voting for Trump was akin to an electoral revolution.

President of the United States Donald Trump may have a short attention span but people feel he at least 'listens' and is not 'shackled' to the 1% even though he is a member.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Indeed. What has changed?

Yes, that's what I asked.

Dave. How does a member address your false presumption(s)?

tfk lost by default. He refused to respond further, gave no closing remarks, 'ghosted' the debate, and was found to be still active in the forum.

Yes, that's what I stipulated in my post; TFK lost by default.

You ask; "What is the significance of this victory?"

There seems to be an echo in here.

It demonstrates to free thinkers that defending the official story about 9/11 is not as easy as they may have 'presumed'.

Can you name some free thinkers who have accepted this since the debate but did not before?

People like yourself brag about superior arguments and how easy it is to quash the research of the "truthers". tfk provided a nice example of the "emperor's new clothes'. tfk 'talked the talk' but totally failed to 'walk the walk'.

I don't recall bragging about any such thing. And again, you're simply repeating my initial premise.

tfk sewed more seeds of doubt regarding the 9/11 official story.

Again, can you list some people who are now more doubtful as a result of the debate?

Considering that a lot of what lead to America's 'loss of greatness' following 9/11 is a result of how the government and its lobbyists reacted, tfk's stunning inability to support the conclusions arrived at by the government's 9/11 investigation undermines the credibility of their chosen military actions.

With whom? Not you or Tony, who were already entirely convinced.

This is where public opinion played its part. You are aware that Hillary is soon to be just another rich, unemployed lawyer, are you not?

American voters, desperate and disillusioned in their hopes that Obama would clean up the cesspool of corruption and dysfunction in Washington D.C., showed their anger at the ballot box.

Voting for Trump was akin to an electoral revolution.

Please provide your evidence that Tony and TFK's debate was a factor in the electoral victory by Donald Trump. As Oystein has pointed out, there is no reason to believe that either Donald Trump or anyone in his inner circle has any doubts about the perpetrators of 9/11, however much you may wish to believe otherwise, so the whole thing seems of no relevance to the topic under discussion.

President of the United States Donald Trump may have a short attention span but people feel he at least 'listens' and is not 'shackled' to the 1% even though he is a member.

Which has no relevance whatsoever to the outcome of the debate.

All you've offered is repetition and bluster. Is that all you have?

Dave

 

[Mark F]

Indeed. What has changed?

tfk lost by default. He refused to respond further, gave no closing remarks, 'ghosted' the debate, and was found to be still active in the forum.

You ask; "What is the significance of this victory?"

It demonstrates to free thinkers that defending the official story about 9/11 is not as easy as they may have 'presumed'.

Ummmm, no....

It means tfk opted out of a debate that was hopeless from the start for both sides for whatever his reason(s) and nothing else.

There is no broader global meaning or implication.

 

[jaydeehess]

That there were no explosives at the WTC is as obvious as "water is wet".

Which ironically is pretty much how truthers might describe how obvious it is that there were explosives in the buildings 'cause it looks like CD.

In short, they're in the BACK of the short bus. How's the view?

Oddly enough it is easier to see out the front window of a short bus, but to carry the analogy further, truthers choose to stare at their feet instead.

 

[Ziggi]

Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
Impartial observers see that none of these so-called "debunkers" can actually stand their ground since their big-shot engineer star "debunker" failed in such a spectacular manner. And they see that TFK failed because he had made the mistake all these years of thinking that his fellow forum "debunkers" actually provided honest and reliable research. TFK ran away from your debate when he realized himself that he had made that fatal mistake.

But dear Tony, rest assured that the faith of TFK's inferior fellow "debunkers" on this forum will remain as strong as ever, and that they think they could do much better than TFK. In fact, the more incapable they are the more flatulent their statements of faith will be. Kruger-Dunning my friend. And to top it off, many of the same people who also happen to be known for their ad-hom attacks are now left shifting the blame with one final ad-hom and whining about you being the one that calls them names.

These people did not learn when Dr. Greening left the forum in disgust and compared them to Creationinsts, and they did not learn when the JREF got rid of them a few years later either. If anything, this subforum has become even more pathetic than ever. Certain people will never learn. I hope you will not waste much more time on this forum from now on. Let them waste their own time. For example: Now let the ranting begin...

My question for our resident truthers is this: What has now changed?

Let's presume, for the sake of argument, that Tony has won the debate due to TFK defaulting. What is the significance of this victory? I can suggest a few subsidiary questions to elucidate....

...Dave

There is no change in the trend that is the downward spiral of you and your subforum of so-called "debunkers" being flushed down the toilet. The last remnants of you still try to deny this in public but you guys can no-longer successfully maintain and project your illusions. A few of you still try to deny this but the only thing objective readers will see and hear is a lot of flatulence and denial.

 

[beachnut]

Another post of zero evidence and project from 9/11 truth

... "debunkers" being flushed down the toilet. ...

Projection, of where 9/11 lost the evidence for thermite and CD, a toilet deep in the insane minds of Jones and Harrit. When will 9/11 truth figure out 9/11? Never.
Tony has no evidence for CD, you have no evidence for CD. 15 years and the best from 9/11 truth, false claims, and nonsense. A legacy of anti-intellectual claptrap, and you publish proof on the Internet.

Where is the EVIDENCE? there is no evidence for CD, or other 9/11 truth claims. 9/11 truth won the contest of BS, lies and fantasy.

15 years of zero action, zero evidence.
Evidence for 9/11 truth claims = 0 (aka zero, zip, none, the empty set, etc)

 

[skyeagle409]

It is now December 2016 and still no 9/11 CD evidence . What happen to the truther evidence reports that such evidence would have been revealed by now?

Some truthers have not embraced the hint that they were taken for a ride to the cleaners. Don't be surprised when more request for 9/11 investigative donations are made. The beneficiaries of those donations want to upgrade their mode of auto transportation to the new 2017 luxury models so as to continue to transport gullible truthers to the cleaners.

 

[jaydeehess]

There is no change in the trend that is the downward spiral of you and your subforum of so-called "debunkers" being flushed down the toilet. The last remnants of you still try to deny this in public but you guys can no-longer successfully maintain and project your illusions. A few of you still try to deny this but the only thing objective readers will see and hear is a lot of flatulence and denial.

Hypocrisy in action. Tell me how well are lets roll, pft, and similar sites doing? Oystein has pointed out just how well AE911T recruitment (isn't) doing.

Speaking of flatulence and denial, tell me why it is that despite roundly denying the veracity of the NIST fire spread/intensity studies, the sole attempt to dispute them comes not from a fire engineer, not from an engineer of any stripe, but from a carpenter. Tell me why, despite denying the veracity of NIST FEAs, and all non-NIST engineering studies for that matter, AE911T has yet to produce a report of the scope and quality with which to actually bolster that dispute.

All this flying in the face of the touting of the support of some 2000+ engineers and architects who, one would suppose, not only morally support the cause, but would also be willing to offer their services to the cause.

I have asked this so many times in the past I have lost count. Nary a reply let alone explanation.

 

[Dave Rogers]

There is no change in the trend that is the downward spiral of you and your subforum of so-called "debunkers" being flushed down the toilet. The last remnants of you still try to deny this in public but you guys can no-longer successfully maintain and project your illusions. A few of you still try to deny this but the only thing objective readers will see and hear is a lot of flatulence and denial.

No change in the favour of truthers as a result of the debate, then, even in your somewhat different perception of reality.

Dave

 

[jaydeehess]

No change in the favour of truthers as a result of the debate, then, even in your somewhat different perception of reality.

Dave

His implying that JREF 'got rid" of this forum because of a supposed downward spiral of 9/11CT debunking is quite odd. JREF 'got rid' of the entire forum, not just this one sub-sub-forum. That there is some powerful bad ju-ju we have here.

 

[jaydeehess]

It is now December 2016 and still no 9/11 CD evidence . What happen to the truther evidence reports that such evidence would have been revealed by now?

Some truthers have not embraced the hint that they were taken for a ride to the cleaners. Don't be surprised when more request for 9/11 investigative donations are made. The beneficiaries of those donations want to upgrade their mode of auto transportation to the new 2017 luxury models so as to continue to transport gullible truthers to the cleaners.

Now don't forget the half ##### effort at producing an engineering report that Hulsey is doing at U. of A. So far he has only drawn conclusions. Very soon he will actually have a report to base them on,,,,,, I'm not an engineer but in my physics classes we did the labs first, then we drew conclusions. I was unaware that engineers do it the in the opposite order.

 

[Oystein]

...it was completely unproductive and therefore it is irrelevant who won...

One side lost and thus stole the other side the opportunity to grab that loss.

 

[skyeagle409]

There is no change in the trend that is the downward spiral of you and your subforum of so-called "debunkers" being flushed down the toilet. The last remnants of you still try to deny this in public but you guys can no-longer successfully maintain and project your illusions. A few of you still try to deny this but the only thing objective readers will see and hear is a lot of flatulence and denial.

Perhaps you've missed this undeniable list before.

1. No evidence of CD explosions on video

2. No evidence of CD explosions on audio

3. No CD explosions detected by seismic monitors

4. No CD explosive evidence found at WTC ground zero

5. No thermite nor nano-thermite evidence found within dust samples collected at WTC ground zero

6. No evidence of any kind that 9/11 was an inside job, especially when considering that countries around the globe, including Russia and Afghanistan, had issued warnings prior to 9/11 that OBL and al-Qaeda would carry out the attack.

Afterward, OBL admitted his responsibility for the 9/11 attack and al-Qaeda released it's martyr photos and videos of the 9/11hijackers, some whose voices were recorded on ATC audio tapes.

To sum it up, there is absolutely no evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.

 

[NoahFence]

Perhaps you've missed this undeniable list before.

1. No evidence of CD explosions on video

2. No evidence of CD explosions on audio

3. No CD explosions detected by seismic monitors

4. No CD explosive evidence found at WTC ground zero

5. No thermite nor nano-thermite evidence found within dust samples collected at WTC ground zero

6. No evidence of any kind that 9/11 was an inside job, especially when considering that countries around the globe, including Russia and Afghanistan, had issued warnings prior to 9/11 that OBL and al-Qaeda would carry out the attack.

Afterward, OBL admitted his responsibility for the 9/11 attack and al-Qaeda released it's martyr photos and videos of the 9/11hijackers, some whose voices were recorded on ATC audio tapes.

To sum it up, there is absolutely no evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.

Hell, I'm just waiting for someone to tie in all 4 crashes in such a manner that it makes sense more than what actually happened. They can't even get over that 1st hurdle.

 

[skyeagle409]

Now don't forget the half ##### effort at producing an engineering report that Hulsey is doing at U. of A. So far he has only drawn conclusions. Very soon he will actually have a report to base them on,,,,,, I'm not an engineer but in my physics classes we did the labs first, then we drew conclusions. I was unaware that engineers do it the in the opposite order.

I won't be surprised if Hulsey goes public and claims his dog ate his report and finished off the evidence as dessert.

 

[Axxman300]

tfk lost by default. He refused to respond further, gave no closing remarks, 'ghosted' the debate, and was found to be still active in the forum.

You ask; "What is the significance of this victory?"

It demonstrates to free thinkers that defending the official story about 9/11 is not as easy as they may have 'presumed'.

TFK's mistake was debating Tony on a null issue in the first place.

In another thread I drew Tony out and got him to reveal his thoughts on how the conspiracy was carried out, and it was clear to everyone that he lacks operation knowledge of the process and material needed to bring down WTC7 and the other towers in the way that we saw them fall.

In short: Tony can't explain how the explosives got into the buildings or how they were set off. He explanation for the type of explosive charges, in the context of the disaster, that relies more on magic than chemistry.

Finally, there isn't an "Official Story", there are over 20 final reports on 9-11, not a single one points to CD.

ps

This forum should make up t-shirts that say "Disingenuous Piranhas" because that's the coolest thing ever.

 

[jaydeehess]

TFK's mistake was debating Tony on a null issue in the first place.

In another thread I drew Tony out and got him to reveal his thoughts on how the conspiracy was carried out, and it was clear to everyone that he lacks operation knowledge of the process and material needed to bring down WTC7 and the other towers in the way that we saw them fall.

In short: Tony can't explain how the explosives got into the buildings or how they were set off. He explanation for the type of explosive charges, in the context of the disaster, that relies more on magic than chemistry.

Finally, there isn't an "Official Story", there are over 20 final reports on 9-11, not a single one points to CD.

ps

This forum should make up t-shirts that say "Disingenuous Piranhas" because that's the coolest thing ever.

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