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Brexit: Now What? Part II

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"Wise", or simply "selfish and cowardly"?

He should have stayed, demonstrated how impossible it will be to create a good outcome, and then declared the whole thing a mistake which shouldn't go ahead. As the creator of this dead-end he navigated into, he should have declared it impossible, ditched the advisory result of the referendum, and admitted his incompetence, and only after that was clear finally he should have resigned, and retired in disgrace.

He's a politician. By the standard of his guild he acted wisely. Your analysis is correct for a human being, but not for a career politician ;)

McHrozni
 
Has there been any good Brexit news lately?

Depends on what you mean by "good".

If you're in favour of a "Hard Brexit" then all the noises coming from Theresa May and her top team of Davis, Fox and Johnson will have been "good". She seems determined not to fudge the issue and give Brexiters what she says that she thinks they want - a hard Brexit.

That some top technology employers like Google aren't putting their expansion plans on hold and that manufacturers like Nissan are prepared to stay in the UK as long as they have assurances regarding costs and infrastructure is good news.
 
Depends on what you mean by "good".

If you're in favour of a "Hard Brexit" then all the noises coming from Theresa May and her top team of Davis, Fox and Johnson will have been "good". She seems determined not to fudge the issue and give Brexiters what she says that she thinks they want - a hard Brexit.

That some top technology employers like Google aren't putting their expansion plans on hold and that manufacturers like Nissan are prepared to stay in the UK as long as they have assurances regarding costs and infrastructure is good news.

That's only because they are pursuing digital expansions that won't need many people except a limited small number of very skilled people to ensure expansion of automation, AI, machine learning, 3D manufacturing, robotics, virtual reality and big data so the UK will be great for those tech and other similar companies if company taxation is very low and if you are reducing your need for humans. However, it won't replace jobs or taxation from jobs.
 
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Depends on what you mean by "good".

If you're in favour of a "Hard Brexit" then all the noises coming from Theresa May and her top team of Davis, Fox and Johnson will have been "good". She seems determined not to fudge the issue and give Brexiters what she says that she thinks they want - a hard Brexit.

That some top technology employers like Google aren't putting their expansion plans on hold and that manufacturers like Nissan are prepared to stay in the UK as long as they have assurances regarding costs and infrastructure is good news.
Buying jobs as both May and Trump have both done is not a workable solution.
 
"Wise", or simply "selfish and cowardly"?

He should have stayed, demonstrated how impossible it will be to create a good outcome, and then declared the whole thing a mistake which shouldn't go ahead. As the creator of this dead-end he navigated into, he should have declared it impossible, ditched the advisory result of the referendum, and admitted his incompetence, and only after that was clear finally he should have resigned, and retired in disgrace.

Except he's a politician so, as others have pointed out, he acts like one.

If he tried to do what you said he'd probably have been voted out as leader by the party and we'd basically be in the same position. Instead he passed the poison chalice on to someone else instead of drinking it himself.
 
And then Trump's long lost brother comes out with this:

Boris Johnson: UK should not pay 'large sums' for EU trade access

The sums for EU trade access aren't large to begin with: a few billion pounds (euros) per year.
So he's factually true, but cutting that cost was one of the main issues of Brexitard campaign than also promised to spend three times as much on NHS and a host of other projects, which I suspect might be an issue though.

McHrozni
 
Could the apparent defeat of the far right candidate in the Austrian presidential election be attributed to Austrian voter disenchantment with the UK Brexit process? What a mess the Brits are in. We don't want any of that, thank you.
He had also suggested Austria could follow Britain's vote to leave the EU with a referendum of its own but later appeared to row back, suggesting changing the bloc into a purely economic association.​
See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38202669
 
But it looks as though the establishment has suffered a blow in the Italian referendum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38204189
Yes, it has. How hard a blow remains to be seen, but the result isn't good. I agree with Gavin Hewitt of the BBC
The Italian vote is not about Europe or the EU but it will be interpreted as an indicator of the strength of the anti-establishment winds blowing through Europe in the aftermath of Mr Trump's unexpected victory.​
 
I see it as support for the estsblishment. A second revising chamber is an important check and balance in any government. Stripping it if power is the first step on a dangerous road.
 
Yes, it has. How hard a blow remains to be seen, but the result isn't good. I agree with Gavin Hewitt of the BBC
The Italian vote is not about Europe or the EU but it will be interpreted as an indicator of the strength of the anti-establishment winds blowing through Europe in the aftermath of Mr Trump's unexpected victory.​

But you must bear in mind Italy is home to the Mark I Trump, Silvio Berlusconi, Italy's already way along the road Trump is just starting to take the USA down. The greatest restraint on the populist parties will be the farrago that Brexit is set to become.
 
I see it as support for the estsblishment. A second revising chamber is an important check and balance in any government. Stripping it if power is the first step on a dangerous road.
Then the UK is already more than a century on that road. :rolleyes: The 1911 Parliament Act stripped the House of Lords of its veto power - it can only stall legislation, for a year or so, and not prohibit it.

In the Dutch constitution, the "Eerste Kamer" only ever, since 1848, had the power to approve or veto legislation, not to introduce it or revise it. In the German constitution, the Bundesrat also can only approve or veto legislation, and then only when it influences the states.

I could go on... there are plenty of countries with asymmetric bicameral systems, or with unicameral systems, and no-one accuses them of being on a dangerous road.

I haven't looked well into the reforms that were proposed, but I have the impression that previously, the Italian executive needed the support of a majority in both chambers. Methinks stripping that out is a wise move, especially in a country that has had on average one government per year since 1946.

ETA: the current Renzi cabinet is the 63rd cabinet since the founding of the Italian Republic in 1946.
 
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But you must bear in mind Italy is home to the Mark I Trump, Silvio Berlusconi, Italy's already way along the road Trump is just starting to take the USA down. The greatest restraint on the populist parties will be the farrago that Brexit is set to become.

Trump is Silvio Berlusconi light, actually.

Consider the conflict of interest alone: Trump's business ventures stand to gain unfairly due to his political position. Silvio Berlusconi controls most of the Italian privately owned mass media. They treated him like the second coming of Jesus during the campaign and terms. When he started the term the state media (which is most of the rest) sang the tune as well. Trump's got nothing on Berlusconi.

Literarily.


(NSFW)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Silvio_Berlusconi#Alleged_links_to_the_Mafia

McHrozni
 
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Could the apparent defeat of the far right candidate in the Austrian presidential election be attributed to Austrian voter disenchantment with the UK Brexit process? What a mess the Brits are in. We don't want any of that, thank you
I think the UK's greatest contribution to the EU will be in the example it sets as it leaves. This is why it's in the EU's interest to make the process as difficult, and the consequences as damaging, as it can pour encourager les autres. Years of Britain whinging, demanding special treatment and sabotaging every attempt at progress have given the rest of the EU little incentive to do otherwise. Certainly they can't afford for Britain to end up with a deal anything like as good as it had whilst a member, when so many other members have their own populations of wilfully ignorant xenophobes watching with interest.
 
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