Who killed Meredith Kercher? part 23

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<snip>....that power is there.

We saw it when Maria Cantwell, senator for Seattle put out a press release - which was taken up globally – calling for the then-State Secretary John Kerry and the Obama administration that the USA should intervene to free Amanda Knox because of the clear anti-American sentiment of the Italian judicial system, she states.

Maria Cantwell even made an appointment to see Hillary Clinton the next secretary of state saying she had been strongly petitioned by friends of Amanda Knox.

And then what happened?

Oh, that's right. Exactly nothing.

<snip>....The real movers and shakers being politicians and political advisers.

I agree.

From day one, Amanda Knox had the full weight of American politicians behind her, and, rather than Nick Pisa being responsible for her conviction, it is surely the likes of Donald Trump and influencers in the US State Department responsible for getting her off the charges? It can be readily seen Amanda has a debt of gratitude owing to these shady enforcers behind the scenes.<snip>

Believe it or not, Donald Trump used to be an even greater laughingstock than he is now. His influence over Washington at that time? Less than zero.

More important, though, there's a question the "behind-the-scenes" conspiracy theorists never seem able to answer: If the politicians of the most powerful nation on Earth put their full weight behind Amanda in order to get her off the hook, what the heck took them so long?

Could have been done in a day.
 
And then what happened?

Oh, that's right. Exactly nothing.



I agree.



Believe it or not, Donald Trump used to be an even greater laughingstock than he is now. His influence over Washington at that time? Less than zero.

More important, though, there's a question the "behind-the-scenes" conspiracy theorists never seem able to answer: If the politicians of the most powerful nation on Earth put their full weight behind Amanda in order to get her off the hook, what the heck took them so long?

Could have been done in a day.

Vixen constantly boasts about how much evidence there was against Amanda and Raffaele. If this was the case, why does Vixen has to resort using ludicrous conspiracy theories to explain why the courts annulled the convictions.
 
So, we have established:

1. There are no international standards in Forensic DNA collection. Planigale made a valiant effort to point us all to a webpage that sets them out, but failed miserably.

2. It is not possible to prove a negative. therefore it is not possible to prove, 'Dr. Stefanoni did not meet international standards', as none exists.

3. We have established that, like the UK, Italy adheres to ENSFI standards (the European one, no less learned than the US).

4. Therefore, Vecchiotti, Hellmann and Marasca were ipso facto knowingly corrupt when they claimed the kids should be acquitted due to 'Dr stefanoni not following international standards'.

5. The old red herring, 'Amanda lived there' does not explain her DNA mixed with Mez' life blood ebbed away, in five different places (more than Rudy's and he did zero cleaning up).

6. It does not explain Raff's DNA on Mez' bra clasp, under her body, under a sheet, under a duvet in Mez' room. What was he doing in her room?

7. His footprint on the bathmat ins highly incriminating and indicates he had a shower there.

8. Luminol highlighted the bare footprints of the pair, a presumptive forensic test for blood.

Conclusion: the DNA evidence is sound and after hearing all of the evidence in front of it, Massei and Nencini correctly found the pair guilty of aggravated murder, together with Rudy, beyond all reasonable doubt.

The fact Vecchiotti conspired with the defence to get the kids off, and Hellmann and Marasca played along with her - a mediocre criminal pathologist with no particular expertise in DNA or genetics, ordered to pay a murder victim's husband (Ogliata) €150K for gross negligence in refusing to test the DNA of the murderer in NINETEEN years - and thus we can fairly conclude, the acquittal was a corrupt one.
 
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And then what happened?

Oh, that's right. Exactly nothing.



I agree.



Believe it or not, Donald Trump used to be an even greater laughingstock than he is now. His influence over Washington at that time? Less than zero.

More important, though, there's a question the "behind-the-scenes" conspiracy theorists never seem able to answer: If the politicians of the most powerful nation on Earth put their full weight behind Amanda in order to get her off the hook, what the heck took them so long?

Could have been done in a day.


You guys voted for him.

Evidently, the friends of Amanda Knox did believe they could interfere in due process, as witness Maria Cantwell ,who said she had been 'strongly petitioned by friends of amanda Knxo'
 
So, we have established:

1. There are no international standards in Forensic DNA collection. Planigale made a valiant effort to point us all to a webpage that sets them out, but failed miserably.

2. It is not possible to prove a negative. therefore it is not possible to prove, 'Dr. Stefanoni did not meet international standards', as none exists.

3. We have established that, like the UK, Italy adheres to ENSFI standards (the European one, no less learned than the US).

4. Therefore, Vecchiotti, Hellmann and Marasca were ipso facto knowingly corrupt when they claimed the kids should be acquitted due to 'Dr stefanoni not following international standards'.

5. The old red herring, 'Amanda lived there' does not explain her DNA mixed with Mez' life blood ebbed away, in five different places (more than Rudy's and he did zero cleaning up).

6. It does not explain Raff's DNA on Mez' bra clasp, under her body, under a sheet, under a duvet in Mez' room. What was he doing in her room?

7. His footprint on the bathmat ins highly incriminating and indicates he had a shower there.

8. Luminol highlighted the bare footprints of the pair, a presumptive forensic test for blood.

Conclusion: the DNA evidence is sound and after hearing all of the evidence in front of it, Massei and Nencini correctly found the pair guilty of aggravated murder, together with Rudy, beyond all reasonable doubt.

The fact Vecchiotti conspired with the defence to get the kids off, and Hellmann and Marasca played along with her - a mediocre criminal pathologist with no particular expertise in DNA or genetics, ordered to pay a murder victim's husband (Ogliata) €150K for gross negligence in refusing to test the DNA of the murderer in NINETEEN years - and thus we can fairly conclude, the acquittal was a corrupt one.


You would agree that what you are outlining is a conspiracy theory? I think most conspiracy theories which involve alleged corruption at the highest level, such as Fake Moon Landings and the alleged blowing up of the Twin Towers are not entertained in the slightest by most people. Watergate would be an exception, but in that case there was mountains of evidence and a pretty clear narrative ( and understandable motives).
 
You would agree that what you are outlining is a conspiracy theory? I think most conspiracy theories which involve alleged corruption at the highest level, such as Fake Moon Landings and the alleged blowing up of the Twin Towers are not entertained in the slightest by most people. Watergate would be an exception, but in that case there was mountains of evidence and a pretty clear narrative ( and understandable motives).

Look to the PIP, who claim Italian police, prosecutors and forensic scientists, together with Nick Pisa of the DAILY MAIL did conspire to frame the innocent Amanda, and also her Italian boyfriend for daring to associate with her.

Reality check.
 
Look to the PIP, who claim Italian police, prosecutors and forensic scientists, together with Nick Pisa of the DAILY MAIL did conspire to frame the innocent Amanda, and also her Italian boyfriend for daring to associate with her.

Reality check.

Tabloid hack Nick Pisa readily admitted his part in this conspiracy!!!! He said he did not fact-check the info provided to him by the police, lest he lose valuable hours/days in garnering a headline in the tabloids!

So I guess you are correct, the PIP should be looked at more closely!
 
So, we have established:

1. There are no international standards in Forensic DNA collection. Planigale made a valiant effort to point us all to a webpage that sets them out, but failed miserably.

"We" have established nothing of the sort. For heavens sake, even the prosecution's DNA expert, Prof Novelli, said that Stefanoni did not follow international standards with regard to the number of amplifications required to establish a reliable result.

There are no, none, forensic-DNA experts who join you in this fictional "we". You cannot name one. You've been asked dozens of times - and you skip that part to move to the dishonest claim of a "we have established."

To quote Welshman.....

Vixen constantly boasts about how much evidence there was against Amanda and Raffaele. If this was the case, why does Vixen has to resort using ludicrous conspiracy theories to explain why the courts annulled the convictions.
 
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So, we have established:

1. There are no international standards in Forensic DNA collection. Planigale made a valiant effort to point us all to a webpage that sets them out, but failed miserably.

2. It is not possible to prove a negative. therefore it is not possible to prove, 'Dr. Stefanoni did not meet international standards', as none exists.

3. We have established that, like the UK, Italy adheres to ENSFI standards (the European one, no less learned than the US).

4. Therefore, Vecchiotti, Hellmann and Marasca were ipso facto knowingly corrupt when they claimed the kids should be acquitted due to 'Dr stefanoni not following international standards'.

5. The old red herring, 'Amanda lived there' does not explain her DNA mixed with Mez' life blood ebbed away, in five different places (more than Rudy's and he did zero cleaning up).

6. It does not explain Raff's DNA on Mez' bra clasp, under her body, under a sheet, under a duvet in Mez' room. What was he doing in her room?

7. His footprint on the bathmat ins highly incriminating and indicates he had a shower there.

8. Luminol highlighted the bare footprints of the pair, a presumptive forensic test for blood.

Conclusion: the DNA evidence is sound and after hearing all of the evidence in front of it, Massei and Nencini correctly found the pair guilty of aggravated murder, together with Rudy, beyond all reasonable doubt.

The fact Vecchiotti conspired with the defence to get the kids off, and Hellmann and Marasca played along with her - a mediocre criminal pathologist with no particular expertise in DNA or genetics, ordered to pay a murder victim's husband (Ogliata) €150K for gross negligence in refusing to test the DNA of the murderer in NINETEEN years - and thus we can fairly conclude, the acquittal was a corrupt one.

Who, exactly, collected the forensic DNA?
 
You guys voted for him.

Nicely sidestepped.

Evidently, the friends of Amanda Knox did believe they could interfere in due process, as witness Maria Cantwell ,who said she had been 'strongly petitioned by friends of amanda Knxo'

Au contraire. We did believe we could call for due process, and interfere with corruption. Maria Cantwell wasn't the only one strongly petitioned.
 
Look to the PIP, who claim Italian police, prosecutors and forensic scientists, together with Nick Pisa of the DAILY MAIL did conspire to frame the innocent Amanda, and also her Italian boyfriend for daring to associate with her.

Reality check.

Not, I think, an overarching conspiracy. But your conspiracy theory is that, essentially for reasons unknown, the Supreme Court decided to acquit A and R, although they knew them to be guilty, whereas the stated reason for their acquittal was that the evidence was lacking. Most people would say the latter was the more convincing reason. I think the reality check is that there has been no convincing full account of, for instance, why and how Maresca got nobbled.
 
I do genuinely think that the study of the public debate (in the media and in online communities) about this case is worthy of its place in this thread: this is one of the first criminal cases in history where social media and online forums have fed upon - and informed - the media reporting of the case, and may well have had some form of impact upon the case itself.

On the twin (and closely-related) issues of a) the deliberately intense personalisation of the victim (to the point of super-humanisation and super-over-familiarisation) and b) the vilification of certain alleged perpetrators and those who speak in favour of them, I think many (most?) psychiatrists would perhaps argue that the following is taking place: it's a matter of individuals (and groups within which they coalesce and self-reinforce) constructing a scenario of the helpless victim fighting unfair forces beyond his/her control*, and employing that construction as a proxy for themselves. I suspect that many such individuals have believed themselves to have been personally damaged by "overwhelming forces beyond their control" in their own lives (e.g. sackings from jobs, failings in their personal lives, or direct/indirect victimhood of crime); they are vicariously identifying with the ultimate victim - the murder victim - to project their own issues. And in order to do so, the murder victim has to be helpless in the face of overwhelming force. Also, it appears a very common factor that the murder victims chosen for such projection are people with unfulfilled promise and nascent beauty (Meredith Kercher and Madeleine McCann fall perfectly into this role, of course - in Kercher's case, this would also explain why it's necessary to believe that Kercher was a brilliant, super-popular young woman of the highest possible moral standards, who would undoubtedly have gone on to achieve truly great things in life).

On the flip-side, many (most) psychiatrists might also postulate that the necessary parallel is to believe the (alleged) perpetrator(s) to be intensely evil people who genuinely delighted in the suffering of their victim. Any suggestion that the (alleged) perpetrators might be anything less is to introduce unwanted shades of grey, and to lessen the relief/catharsis being provided by the overall projection mechanism. After all, these individuals believe the architects of their own misfortune/downfall to be nefarious and in delight at the pain they've caused them, so the vilification of the (alleged) murderers in the projection exercise is simply an amplification of that (to match with the amplification of the victim being a murder victim).

Likewise, anyone speaking in favour of the (alleged) murderer(s) is seen, by extension, to be part of the "forces of evil" (hence the language along the lines of "your little darlings" and "murderer groupies"). And of course once the projection construction has taken place - in this particular instance, it's beautiful, popular Kercher (for which read: "me") being brutally held down, tortured and murdered by an evil gang featuring a heinous, conniving Knox, a weak but disturbed and violence-obsessed Sollecito, and a somewhat peripheral Guede (for which, collectively, read: "those who have damaged or destroyed me personally") - it cannot be challenged for fear of damaging the projection itself. Those who do challenge it must be attacked for being "on the side of the destroyers" and "against the honest, decent individual".

As I've stated many, many times before, I'm genuinely fascinated by the sociological and psychological/psychiatric aspects to the media coverage and online debates about this case. I think these aspect are absolutely worthy of study, and absolutely worthy of discussion/debate here. As I said above, I believe this is the case not least because it's a fascinating and illuminating phenomenon which is still in its relative infancy and will probably become more and more prevalent, but also because it might well have had some form of material impact on the fiascos that went on in various Italian courtrooms, especially between 2009 and 2013.


* In this particular case, I believe this factor underpins the apparent need for the pro-guilt narrative to believe that Kercher was attacked by a group of evil individuals, in the face of whom she never had a chance to fight back. And why the narrative also apparently needs to believe that Kercher was taunted and tortured while being restrained and held down. It's also (IMO) why it's difficult - to the point of impossible - for the pro-guilt narrative to accept the entirely reasonable proposition that Kercher was forced into compliant submission by just one person (Guede) acting alone. There needs to be no grey area in the narrative: Kercher has to have been outnumbered and overwhelmed, such that she never had a chance. It's also interesting how often the matter of Kercher's karate lessons come up in the pro-guilt narrative (though in reality, by all accounts, she went to some lessons but wasn't really much good at it....). The construction is this: Kercher would have been well-equipped and well-able to defend herself had she been in a "fair fight" (perhaps against just Knox, for example), but instead she was defeated in an "unfair fight".

While I agree that the sociological aspects of this case are still worthy of discussion, I think the case isn't. Especially not the back and forth with a specific poster. It is not worthy of many of the minds present.

For me, it is tiresome arguing with people who say black is white and up is down. 2+2 always equals 4. What's the point in arguing with someone that insists that it equals 6? That and playing whack a mole with the constantly recirculating lies only made me angry.

Wish you all well.
 
Senator Cantwell worked tirelessly to free a psychopathic sex killer and let her loose in her home state to win an extra 6 votes :thumbsup:
 
You guys voted for him.
Evidently, the friends of Amanda Knox did believe they could interfere in due process, as witness Maria Cantwell ,who said she had been 'strongly petitioned by friends of amanda Knxo'

No, I didn't. And Clinton won more than TWO MILLION more popular votes than Trump.

Sending a petition is not "interference in due process". It is a legal right to present a petition. Tell me, exactly, what Sen. Cantwell actually did that interfered with the "due process" of this case.

Cantwell spoke of her concerns only after the initial guilty verdict in 2009. Her concerns regarded the "insufficient evidence" against Knox and that there had been "negligence in the handling of evidence"...both confirmed by Marasca. She also said Knox had been subjected to "harsh treatment". Police sued Knox for saying she was hit. They lost. "She also complained that jurors had not been sequestered, allowing them to view "negative news coverage" about Knox, and that one of the prosecutors had a misconduct case pending in relation to another trial." All true. As for Clinton, all Cantwell did was "convey her concerns" to the Secretary of State. Concerns that were later found to be completely justified.
 
While I agree that the sociological aspects of this case are still worthy of discussion, I think the case isn't. Especially not the back and forth with a specific poster. It is not worthy of many of the minds present.

For me, it is tiresome arguing with people who say black is white and up is down. 2+2 always equals 4. What's the point in arguing with someone that insists that it equals 6? That and playing whack a mole with the constantly recirculating lies only made me angry.

Wish you all well.

Oh, acbytesla, it's the nature of the beast. :p The case was already solved by the time you got here. The ensuing five years have been retread.

At least there seems to have been little recent discussion of door locks. I thought I was gonna slit my wrists over that one.
 
Oh, acbytesla, it's the nature of the beast. :p The case was already solved by the time you got here. The ensuing five years have been retread.

At least there seems to have been little recent discussion of door locks. I thought I was gonna slit my wrists over that one.
I am curious about how to realign history and reconcile protagonists.
I am looking ahead to one remote suggestion by the proliferating family of the dearly loved victim, we might have inadvertently wronged another two families.
 
Oh, acbytesla, it's the nature of the beast. :p The case was already solved by the time you got here. The ensuing five years have been retread.

At least there seems to have been little recent discussion of door locks. I thought I was gonna slit my wrists over that one.


Ha! True and true. All rational, critical thinkers with sufficient intellect and understanding of the scientific method, who are sufficiently well-informed about this case, have long been able to see that at the very least there's absolutely no credible, reliable evidence of Knox's/Sollecito's involvement in the Kercher murder (and thus it was correct and fair that they were acquitted on all charges related to the murder). Furthermore, all rational, critical thinkers etc. have long been able to see that at the very least it's a plausible and reasonable possibility that Knox was unlawfully coerced by the police in her 5th/6th interrogation into making her infamous "confession/accusation", and that therefore she did not possess the required (in law and ethics) intent to have committed the crime of criminal slander against Lumumba.

So I fully agree, the fundamental debate on those issues, from a criminal justice perspective (i.e. how should Knox and Sollecito stand in law) is resolved. And since the Italian criminal justice system has (albeit highly belatedly and somewhat cackhandedly) ruled in that direction on the murder-related charges, there's really nothing more to say on the murder. On the criminal slander, I think there's still some interesting and debatable ground to tread vis-a-vis the ECHR ruling (and Italy's reaction to any such ruling).

But on top of that, I think there are two avenues that do still warrant ongoing discussion and analysis. The first is an attempt to use the current evidence set to get as close as possible to understanding exactly what DID happen that night. I believe (as, I think, do many others here) that the evidence - and lack of evidence - points towards Guede acting alone, and towards Guede being inside the cottage (having broken in through Romanelli's window and closing the outer shutters to conceal the evidence of the break-in from anyone outside the cottage) when Kercher arrived home just after 9.00pm. I believe the evidence (and lack of evidence) points towards Guede confronting Kercher shortly after her return, and matters escalating towards threats of violence (with an knife used as a threatening weapon), forced compliance, the start of a sexual assault, the stabbing, and the continuation and culmination of the sexual assault.

I believe the evidence (and lack of evidence) points towards Guede staying in the cottage for around 20 minutes after Kercher's death (which I believe the evidence, taken together, shows occurred almost certainly between 9.30pm and 9.40pm, with the actual stabbing occurring between 9.20pm and 9.30pm). Guede was possibly in immobile shock for part of that period, and then he cleaned himself up in the small bathroom (washing blood from his top, then taking off his shoes to wash blood off his trousers, probably in the shower, and leaving a dilute blood/water partial print on the bath mat as he stepped from the shower tray to the mat) and made a cursory attempt to clean some of the scene in Kercher's room.

The shoe print evidence shows clearly that Guede left Kercher's room in the direction of the front door, but then stopped, paused, and turned around to walk back in the direction of Kercher's room (at which point the prints fade out). I believe this is very probably because Guede suddenly remembered that the front door was locked shut and unable to be opened without the key (and I think he knew this because he had previously tried to exit silently via the front door after Kercher came home shortly after 9.00pm), so he turned and returned to Kercher's room to find her keys, to enable him to unlock the front door and leave. At the same time, he took her phones and bank cards - I think the evidence shows that he tried to turn off both phones (possibly because he was worried about signal tracking, and/or because he did not want the phones ringing while in his possession) - he succeeded with the Italian phone (possibly because all the screen menus were in Italian), but failed with the UK phone, making the strange aborted phone calls to voicemail and Kercher's UK bank in the process).

So I believe Guede exited the cottage shortly after 10.00pm. I believe he walked back towards his apartment via the quiet, dark road around the outside of the old city wall (rather than the more obvious, more direct route through Piazza Grimana and up Corso Garibaldi - which was well-lit and where there would be many more potential eyewitnesses). I believe that he was surprised and alarmed by the unexpected incoming multimedia message to Kercher's UK phone (which, remember, he had been unable to turn off IMO) - he eventually managed to abort and cancel the MMS download, but decided at that point to dispose of the phones, throwing them into the darkness of the ravine (but in fact throwing them into Mrs Lana's garden). He arrived back at his apartment by around 10.30pm, and decided his best bet was to act "normal" as an alibi - he met with some friends at around 11.30pm, and then went to the city-centre bars and discos until the small hours of the morning. Later the following day and the day after that, he got increasingly frightened about the huge profile of the murder and its investigation, and decided his best bet was to flee Perugia - he got on a train and headed as far away as practically possible, to central Germany.

I think that my version of "the truth" as described above is a) reasonable and plausible, and b) in keeping with all the available evidence (and lack of evidence). But I definitely think it's wide open to debate - and I think there is an interesting and informative debate still to be had on most of the elements here.

The second avenue that I think is worthy of ongoing discussion and analysis - perhaps more now than ever before - is the nature of the media and online debate (and the sociological and psychological aspects behind that debate). I've offered my opinions on this in a post from a few days ago, so I won't repeat them here. Suffice it to say, I think this case created a new paradigm in the way it was disseminated, reported, debated and understood in a Web2.0 world of social media and the blurring of the lines between neutral, trusted sources and biassed, partisan sources (especially where the latter were posing as neutral, trusted sources). And I believe it's true to say that the combination of irresponsible media reporting of this case (owing to low-quality stringers on the ground who clearly became utterly beholden to the cunning prosecutor, who fed them juicy (but usually false or inflated) tidbits in implicit return for favourable coverage) and the fanning of the flames of righteous outrage among the public (almost all of which was a further exaggeration of the already-false or already-inflated factoids coming from the prosecutor's office to the pliant journalists) might well have had some material effect upon the trial process in this case - especially the Massei trial.
 
<snip>
I think that my version of "the truth" as described above is a) reasonable and plausible, and b) in keeping with all the available evidence (and lack of evidence). But I definitely think it's wide open to debate - and I think there is an interesting and informative debate still to be had on most of the elements here.

For example, I never believed Rudy went in through the window, and my belief about that is as firm as ever.

The second avenue that I think is worthy of ongoing discussion and analysis - perhaps more now than ever before - is the nature of the media and online debate (and the sociological and psychological aspects behind that debate). I've offered my opinions on this in a post from a few days ago, so I won't repeat them here. Suffice it to say, I think this case created a new paradigm in the way it was disseminated, reported, debated and understood in a Web2.0 world of social media and the blurring of the lines between neutral, trusted sources and biassed, partisan sources (especially where the latter were posing as neutral, trusted sources). And I believe it's true to say that the combination of irresponsible media reporting of this case (owing to low-quality stringers on the ground who clearly became utterly beholden to the cunning prosecutor, who fed them juicy (but usually false or inflated) tidbits in implicit return for favourable coverage) and the fanning of the flames of righteous outrage among the public (almost all of which was a further exaggeration of the already-false or already-inflated factoids coming from the prosecutor's office to the pliant journalists) might well have had some material effect upon the trial process in this case - especially the Massei trial.

We'll be hearing from Bill Williams about that. He's been writing on the Internet since the mid '80's.

I just dropped in to thank you for using "suffice it to say" instead of the current vernacular, the incorrect "suffice to say." (Where's the makes-me-want-to-scream emoticon?)
 
LondonJohn said:
The second avenue that I think is worthy of ongoing discussion and analysis - perhaps more now than ever before - is the nature of the media and online debate (and the sociological and psychological aspects behind that debate). I've offered my opinions on this in a post from a few days ago, so I won't repeat them here. Suffice it to say, I think this case created a new paradigm in the way it was disseminated, reported, debated and understood in a Web2.0 world of social media and the blurring of the lines between neutral, trusted sources and biassed, partisan sources (especially where the latter were posing as neutral, trusted sources). And I believe it's true to say that the combination of irresponsible media reporting of this case (owing to low-quality stringers on the ground who clearly became utterly beholden to the cunning prosecutor, who fed them juicy (but usually false or inflated) tidbits in implicit return for favourable coverage) and the fanning of the flames of righteous outrage among the public (almost all of which was a further exaggeration of the already-false or already-inflated factoids coming from the prosecutor's office to the pliant journalists) might well have had some material effect upon the trial process in this case - especially the Massei trial.

We'll be hearing from Bill Williams about that. He's been writing on the Internet since the mid '80's.

Suffice to say........

Yes, I've been part of groups analyzing on-line communication since about 1988. One of those groups way, way, way back-when, critiqued mercilessly the appropriateness of an on-line worship service organized because of the 1986 Challenger Space Shuttle explosion. There were elements of that broo-ha-ha which anticipated the echo-chambers developed around the on-line discussion of the Kercher case.

More than anything else that LondonJohn mentions is that 2007-2008 also represented the period when major news agencies were allowing comments sections below their on-line stories: indeed, the whole shift from print-media to on-line media was in full bore by 2008.

And it was exactly as Nick Pisa said in the documentary - sex, murder, she-devils, alleged girl-on-girl violence, Americans-Brits-Italians-Africans; this was a tabloid story which kept on giving - and the on-line world simply amplified that to a proportion we're probably still figuring out.

Yes, with the Kercher story the fanning of the flames of an outraged public got out of control in a manner perhaps unprecedented. Major news agencies used to send high profile reporters to such things, but budget cuts forced them to rely on stringers: stringers who were hungry for paycheques to feed the tabloid beast. It was exactly as Nick Pisa said in the documentary - take time to fact-check, and one lost a paycheque. Enter an element of the "postfact" world!!

The two camps which developed seemed to third parties to be similar to sectarian warfare..... even though IIP's website welcomed all comers, JREF/ISF here was perhaps the only place on the internet where these sectarian-opposites engaged each other. It's one of the reasons it is sad to see the place so poorly moderated.

What else to say? On-lining is now going through another huge 147-character-at-a-time shift, and it is unclear how the Kercher case would have played out today with that being the lay of the land.

Heck, major news agencies and professional posters are just now figuring out how the various echo-chambers made them so tone deaf to the political groundswell that elected Donald Trump and took The UK out of the EU. The votes WERE always there, but pundits and pollsters had not caught up, nor developed a method to figure out what that side of the fence was all about.

So, suffice to say.....
 
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For example, I never believed Rudy went in through the window, and my belief about that is as firm as ever.


That's a valid difference of opinion of course. And if Rudy did gain entry via the front door (either by persuading Kercher to let him in, or by ambushing Kercher as soon as she opened the door), it's still entirely logical to think that Guede would have had a strong motive for throwing the rock through Romanelli's window (either he did it before entering the house, to test whether anyone was home, or he did it after the murder, in order to mislead investigators away from anyone whom Kercher might have had enough knowledge by sight to allow him to enter the house).

I certainly could see a viable scenario along the following lines: Guede cases the house at around 8.40-8.50pm, and finds it quiet and dark. He waits a while to double-check. Then at just before 9.00pm he quickly scales the wall to Romanelli's sill and opens the outer shutter. He drops back to the ground, waits a while longer in the shadows (to check whether anyone saw or reacted to him scaling the wall), then goes up to the parking parapet area and throws the rock through the window - as a final check as to whether there are any people in the cottage or the apartment below, and whether anyone else in the vicinity would react. Having thrown the rock, Guede once again retreats into the shadows of the bushes.

But then Kercher comes down the driveway. Guede thinks on his feet. He emerges from the bushes. He tells Kercher that he was coming to see if the boys in the downstairs apartment were in (they were not), and he saw Romanelli's broken window. He was having a look around outside to see if he could see anyone, and that's why he emerged from the bushes. He tells Kercher that he could come into the cottage with her to see if anyone was inside (and to provide obvious defence muscle if anyone was inside) and to see what damage might have been done. A grateful but wary Kercher, frightened by the thought of there being one or more burglars inside the cottage, agrees to Guede coming inside with her to check. And the rest leads on from there...........



We'll be hearing from Bill Williams about that. He's been writing on the Internet since the mid '80's.


Yes, but it's really only been since the end of the last decade - 2008-onwards - that the power, influence and pervasion of social networks, blogs, messageboards, online communities and the like has really exploded. People forget, for example, that Twitter was only launched in mid-2006! So the phenomenon of the interaction of "traditional" media and the Web2.0 world (where, for example, one sad and bitter man in his basement piled high with old newspapers can create and send out to the world a website which apes the New York Times style and which - to the uninformed observer - would appear to be the organ of a multinational organisation.....) is very new. It's radically changed the way the mass market receives information, forms opinions, and redistributes information and opinions. And this particular case is a fascinating microcosm of it all.



I just dropped in to thank you for using "suffice it to say" instead of the current vernacular, the incorrect "suffice to say." (Where's the makes-me-want-to-scream emoticon?)


I only found out the correct construction by googling it....... ;) :p :rolleyes:
 
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