Are all Trump supporters racists?

The Big Dog said:
Say you learned about cherry picking.
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I wish you would...

Nice defense tho of the silly thread. Not all trump supporters are racists just everyone I have ever met!

:rolleyes:
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...because then you'd feel bad when you post stuff like this!

Not all Shillaries are whiners either I assume.
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Are you accusing anyone specifically of being paid to post, rather than honestly holding the views they are espousing? It would take actual honesty and intellectual fortitude to make such an accusation outright, while what you're doing here is in fact the opposite. You're attempting to cast those arguing with you as dishonest without actually calling them dishonest, which is in and of itself dishonest. You're not engaging in this discussion in good faith, and thus your input in it is without use. You're exactly what I was talking about when I said that while looking for the truth I had to watch out of those who only see what they want to see from the election.

I'd advise everyone to discount your views on this. The views themselves may or may not have merit, but your argument of them is without merit.
 
tyr_13 said:
I wish you would...



...because then you'd feel bad when you post stuff like this!



Are you accusing anyone specifically of being paid to post, rather than honestly holding the views they are espousing? It would take actual honesty and intellectual fortitude to make such an accusation outright, while what you're doing here is in fact the opposite. You're attempting to cast those arguing with you as dishonest without actually calling them dishonest, which is in and of itself dishonest. You're not engaging in this discussion in good faith, and thus your input in it is without use. You're exactly what I was talking about when I said that while looking for the truth I had to watch out of those who only see what they want to see from the election.

I'd advise everyone to discount your views on this. The views themselves may or may not have merit, but your argument of them is without merit.
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Why would anyone take your advice? You voted for Hillary.
 
The Big Dog said:
Why would anyone take your advice? You voted for Hillary.
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This is an completely invalid argument. Hopefully other conservatives recognize that if they don't dispute people on their side doing what you're doing here, they'll end up in the same position as the liberals are now. Again.
 
tyr_13 said:
It really, really doesn't.

As much as I think people thinking all Trump supporters are racist isn't helpful and is a negative, it is not, from all I've been able to figure out, why Trump won. There are many factors, and I think that's a relatively minor one.
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Apologies for snipping so much, but I wanted to focus on this bit - don't take that as me writing off or ignoring the rest of what you had to say.

I agree with you - liberal intolerance is not at all the only reason we elected the Bloviating Gasbag. I think my PoV is that it played a larger part in things than you seem to think it did, but that's okay - your view vs. mine is merely a difference of degree, rather than kind, and there's nothing wrong with that. For my part I didn't for a moment want to imply that "SAFE SPACES!" were the single only reason Trump won. But I strongly feel intolerance of deviation from what we've come to see as the Right Way played a non-trivial part in bringing us to where we are.

One of the few meatspace rhetorical victories I've won was arguing with someone who thought marriage equality would open the floodgates for people looking to 'scam the system' in some unspecified way. Rather than shouting him down as a bigot I asked him to clarify what he meant, and challenged him on what I thought were the weaknesses in his position. He had a regressive repugnance about him, but rather than shriek and denounce him for it, I tried to show him the flaws in his line of thought. I don't think I totally convinced him, but I know I at least shook the foundations of his certainty. I got him to at least reconsider his bigoted PoV, and that was at least something.

Getting him to be less cock-sure about 'them faggots who just wanted to rip the rest of us off' was just one step in getting one person to consider a viewpoint different to the one he'd been married to. If I'd simply called him a homophobic knuckle-dragger, there wouldn't have even been that much of a victory. I most likely won't be able to convince a Stormfronter that that Jews really aren't out to get him. But maybe I can give a fellow liberal a gentle nudge and convince them that someone failing to use a preferred pronoun doesn't make that person as evil as Goebbels, and that treating that person as such will most likely deafen them to the message of tolerance and acceptance we'd like them to hear.

Liberal intolerance is not the only reason we're in the situation we're in, and it may or may not be the largest reason. But it's the one we, as liberals, have the most immediate influence on, and is where I feel we should start the work on restoring some sanity to social/political discourse in our society.
 
Joe Random said:
Apologies for snipping so much, but I wanted to focus on this bit - don't take that as me writing off or ignoring the rest of what you had to say.

I agree with you - liberal intolerance is not at all the only reason we elected the Bloviating Gasbag. I think my PoV is that it played a larger part in things than you seem to think it did, but that's okay - your view vs. mine is merely a difference of degree, rather than kind, and there's nothing wrong with that. For my part I didn't for a moment want to imply that "SAFE SPACES!" were the single only reason Trump won. But I strongly feel intolerance of deviation from what we've come to see as the Right Way played a non-trivial part in bringing us to where we are.
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One of the problems with analyzing election results is that we look at something that played only a minor role in influencing the way people vote, and dismiss it as insignificant, forgetting that this election was lost by something like 0.5% of the vote. Change that many votes, and Florida and Michigan turn blue. I'm not sure about Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Maybe they would need a full 1%.

You also have to remember that most of the electorate had made up their minds before the first vote was cast in the primaries. Most people were going to vote for either the Republican or Democratic nominee regardless of who it was.

So you have to look at what swayed the remainder, and there, I think the things you mention, and the things Jonathan Pie mentioned, come into play in a pretty big way.

Also, when considering the margin of victory, I think racism played almost no role in this election at all. The real racists were among those who were going to vote Republican no matter what. Four years ago, Mitt Romney lost to Barack Obama. There hasn't been a whole lot of turnover in the population during those four years. If we say that racism is the reason people voted for Trump, you have to explain why some of those people, enough to form the margin of victory, voted for Obama four years ago. Their racism prevented them from voting for Hillary Clinton, but not for Barack Obama? Or was it that Romney was insufficiently racist, so they figured they might as well vote for the black guy, but now that they had a real racist to vote for, they went for it?

I don't think it makes sense.
 
Travis said:
No, they are not all racist. But they are all terrible people. It just happens there are many ways to be terrible.
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Far too many!!!!!! It's part of why I am often accused of having a bad attitude................ Doesn't bother me though!!!!!
 
This is a question like "were all Germans fascists in the 1930s?" The answer is obviously no but there was manipulation of the majority by the right wing through the media particularly social media to provide a scapegoat that people could feel was responsible for the failings in the economy, security and status of the country. This is what we are potentially seeing both in the USA and in the U.K. It is easier to blame someone else for a countries failings rather than tackle real problems and the right wing has no scruples about the use of propaganda. So no not all Trump supporters were racists probably not even the majority of them but their justified fear was used and manipulated and given a target and a name.
 
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tyr_13 said:
It really, really doesn't.

As much as I think people thinking all Trump supporters are racist isn't helpful and is a negative, it is not, from all I've been able to figure out, why Trump won. There are many factors, and I think that's a relatively minor one.

I've been trying very hard not to read into the election only what I wanted to hear. I don't want to just reinforce what I already believed; I want to find the truth. One terrible problem is that other people, even on the 'winning side', will be predisposed to see only what they wanted to see. For example, some are going to say that the election was proof that America is massively racist while others are going to say that it's a refuting of progressive ideas in general. Both of these things have evidence against them.

People not getting the message you advocate doesn't mean they aren't willing to listen. People not agreeing doesn't make one right. It doesn't mean they aren't giving it a fair shake.

So I've been listening to why people think they voted for Trump, and while some (well, in fact many) are in fact racist reasons, others are not. There are non-racist Trump voters. Trying to bring this back to the OP anyway.

Something I saw earlier was the implication that minorities 'can't be racist'. This is an idea that isn't as popular on the left or with progressives as Trump supporters and other conservatives think it is, but it does exist. Many of us on the left have for a long time combated this thinking in our fellow liberals. Yes, minorities can be racist. As a point of fact, I know some black Trump voters who did so for extremely racist reasons. I've been exposed to some horrid racism from black people, both against me and against minorities who are not black. Latinos can be racist. Asians can be racist. Part of Trump's appeal was people heard what they wanted to hear, and for example, some black people ignored the few racist things Trump said about blacks and approved of the racist things he said about 'Mexicans' (like the judge in his fraud case) or refugees from the Middle East.
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Can I just please state that left and liberal and not synonyms. Liberal and left policies are very different in many areas, but they do overlap in some areas as do liberal and right policies. That does not mean that liberal policies are inherently "centralist" they are simply not on the same axis as the traditional right and left.
 
Joe Random said:
Yup.

I try to tell myself that the membership at ISF is not a representative sample of the population at large. Because if it is, then we're going to see a lot of red in all three branches of government for a long time.

That Jonathan Pie Youtube clip should be mandatory viewing every time we fire up a browser window, every day for the next two years.
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ISF is a fascinating echo chamber. It is fun to watch.
 
The Big Dog said:
Oh I think we put equal weight on emails (dishonesty) her malignant narcissism (it is her turn!) and fascist tendencies (clear the field or get crushed) and less on her fake news stories (media matters etal)
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To put things straight. Absent Trump, this was Jeb Bush's time on the republicker side and it was Hillary's on the good side. And anyone who does not follow that does not know enough about the political process (skipping the voter thing) to be talking about it. Trump was the idiot triumphant that stole the election from both of them. Neither party will forget that and neither will fail to do whatever is necessary to fix it for the future.
 
Everyone who doesn't agree with me about every topic to the exact same degree, with the exact same priorities, using the exact same rhetoric, while drawing the exact same lines in the sand and choosing the exact same hills to die defending is obviously a racist, sexist, homophobic, Islamaphobic, Croc wearing, Nickelback listening to, hypocritical, bigot.
 
JoeBentley said:
Everyone who doesn't agree with me about every topic to the exact same degree, with the exact same priorities, using the exact same rhetoric, while drawing the exact same lines in the sand and choosing the exact same hills to die defending is obviously a racist, sexist, homophobic, Islamaphobic, Croc wearing, Nickelback listening to, hypocritical, bigot.
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That was uncalled for.
 
phiwum said:
I think the answer is: almost certainly not. Even if a great number of Trump supporters are racist, it is almost certainly not the case that all of them are.
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The problem is that even if many are not racists they, by helping elect one, are effectively acting as/supporting racists and racism. By your choices you are known.
 
fuelair said:
The problem is that even if many are not racists they, by helping elect one, are effectively acting as/supporting racists and racism. By your choices you are known.
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To be honest, I don't think that Trump is a racist. I think he hasn't the conviction to be a racist. He's just a weenie.
 
Seriously though I gonna buck the trend.

No I don't think everyone who voted for Trump is a racist, either intentionally or by proxy or by complacence.

We could quibble that they aren't showing appropriate levels of racial sensitivity, but they are not racist.

Semantics aside I fully do believe that for the most part the "Voter Base" that elected Trump did so in spite of his racially charged rhetoric, not because of it.
 
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