President Trump

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Emily's Cat said:
With firearms? No. With voice, with petition, with protest, with appeals to my local and state legislature yes.

What would YOU do?
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You just kind of proved my point. The argument for unlimited gun rights as a check and balance against a tyrannical leader controlling a powerful military really provides for a poor check. I have no desire to taked away your right to hunt. I don't want your 30-06 or 12 guage, but I do want to prevent my crazy neighbor here in the city from packing a mac-10 or an M16 with extra ammo clips.

Also, let's face it, a great many Americans are afraid of Muslims and they think that freedom of religion only applies to their own faith.
 
Spindrift said:
And yet, there are lots of poor people living in those cities.

ETA: http://www.mercurynews.com/2015/04/...ecord-levels-in-bay-area-despite-hot-economy/

San Fran had the highest poverty rate in the Bay Area.
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That's a strange way to approach that. SF has the highest poverty rate from among a selection of high-income areas? SF is solidly in the "low percentage of poverty" range:
http://www.povertyusa.org/wp-content/themes/poverty2012/full-screen-county-map.php

What surprises me about that map is that Kansas and the center of the US is showing up a lot less poverty-stricken than I had thought was the case.
 
Spindrift said:
When they espouse something that isn't downright ludicrous then yes they deserve respect. But anyone espousing white supremacy, anti-vax, anti-gay, anti-science, pro-creationism or whatever other bs they 'believe' hasn't earned any respect.
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Then by all means, keep right on demonizing them. And go ahead and use that really big paintbrush you've got - go ahead and insult them, and anyone standing near them, and anyone who has refrained from beating them senseless, and whoever else you feel like. I'm sure it will win them over to your view.
 
Argumemnon said:
Precisely. Why anyone expects him to suddenly become someone entirely different is puzzling, unless they think he's been putting on a show for the last 30 years just to get into the white house, from which he could finally enact his evil scheme -- a mighty conspiracy theory if ever there was one.

No, he'll continue to be Trump after inauguration. He'll seek the spectacle and adulation and ratings and money, but he'll very soon bore of the actual job, allowing Pence and other minions to run the show. In other words, the right-wing extremists and super-rich.

If you thought SJWs in colleges were damaging to civilisation, just wait until their polar opposite, with actual political clout, get going. I don't know how much they'll manage to accomplish, but they'll get part of their agenda done, for sure, and none of it is particularily appealing to me. Women, homosexuals, trans people, immigrants and atheists beware. And forget about better wages or healthcare, folks.
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I've sort of known Trump very well (not personally) since the late 80 or early 90s. My closest friend's father was an architect who worked on several projects with Trump that never got off the ground. He really liked and admired Trump for about 5 years. He talked about Trump a lot. Thought he was a no nonsense get things done guy. But he soured on him in a big way when he saw how he treated some of the women on his staff and even more how he treated his kids. He eventually decided Trump was a spoiled brat and a bully.

It's going to be interesting to see how Trump is going to handle being vilified the next 4 years as that comes with the job.
 
acbytesla said:
You just kind of proved my point. The argument for unlimited gun rights as a check and balance against a tyrannical leader controlling a powerful military really provides for a poor check. I have no desire to taked away your right to hunt. I don't want your 30-06 or 12 guage, but I do want to prevent my crazy neighbor here in the city from packing a mac-10 or an M16 with extra ammo clips.

Also, let's face it, a great many Americans are afraid of Muslims and they think that freedom of religion only applies to their own faith.
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I don't think it's that balck and white though. My first steps are going to be peaceful, always - and I firmly believe they should be. If those steps aren't effective, and if I view the actions of the government as being an infringement on our rights, then I might find myself in a position where I choose to take up arms.

If you require my very first response to be one of violence, well, I think that's an irrational requirement.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Then by all means, keep right on demonizing them. And go ahead and use that really big paintbrush you've got - go ahead and insult them, and anyone standing near them, and anyone who has refrained from beating them senseless, and whoever else you feel like. I'm sure it will win them over to your view.
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Not trying to win them over. They have proven to be impervious to reason and logic. There is no winning them over unless there is a catastrophic nationwide disaster/emergency and that's too high a price fpr winning them over. There can only be winning in spite of them.
 
Emily's Cat said:
One expects hypocrisy from the poor?
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Just those who think that they are independant. Like how the red states are a drain on the federal budget and the blue states are beneficial to it. The ones who vote for trump just like to view the blacks as overly entitled while their food stamps are totally different.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I don't think it's that balck and white though. My first steps are going to be peaceful, always - and I firmly believe they should be. If those steps aren't effective, and if I view the actions of the government as being an infringement on our rights, then I might find myself in a position where I choose to take up arms.

If you require my very first response to be one of violence, well, I think that's an irrational requirement.
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Fair enough
 
Spindrift said:
Not trying to win them over. They have proven to be impervious to reason and logic. There is no winning them over unless there is a catastrophic nationwide disaster/emergency and that's too high a price fpr winning them over. There can only be winning in spite of them.
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This describes partisans on both sides.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Yeah, nobody is asking you to value their opinions as highly as an expert. But you might consider treating them with some respect rather than insulting and mocking them.

Seriously people, is this that difficult of a concept?
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I wouldn't think it difficult, but what would be the point? Would it merely be pragmatic lying, behind which lies contempt for their views? I'm thinking that perception - of being openly respected but secretly held in contempt - is one that has to a large extent fueled this phenomenon.

Personally I'm not American, so I'll likely never meet a Trump supporter, but I think hiding contempt is harmful, more so than being honest about it.

P.S. I've probably met a Wilders supporter or two, though I'm not actually aware of it. I despise Wilders, but I do hold some respect for him and his views, very much unlike Trump, for whom I hold no respect whatsoever.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Did you even read what I wrote?
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How about you reading what _I_ wrote:

Argumemnon said:
Now you're moving the goalposts again. You talked about an armed populace, not a mutiny by armed forces. I asked you if an armed populace would make a difference. It's twice now that you've avoided answering my question.
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How is this not an answer to your question following that post?
 
acbytesla said:
It's going to be interesting to see how Trump is going to handle being vilified the next 4 years as that comes with the job.
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It could be his downfall. He is notoriously thin-skinned and vengeful and given the resources at hand as the President, using those resources for a little revenge wouldn't be far-fetched.
 
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