Who killed Meredith Kercher? part 23

[bagels]

Vixen's fantasy scenario has Amanda Knox incriminating herself "bigly" (in the words of our next orange prez) in the police interrogation room, that the cops forgot to record. Vixen should be mad at the cops methinks.

If the cops flipped the "record interrogation switch" in the interrogation room, Amanda Knox would be in prison now and the ISF would have 100,000 less posts.

And Vixen doesn't care about that. Maybe the ISF mods now wish the cops flipped the switch haha.

It seems to me that this not reflecting on where the police and prosecution went wrong isn't a rational response, it's more similar to like, fanaticism, like somebody obsessed with something, and sees everything in black and white terms that match their inner obsession. I mean it just seems that way to me.

 

[Monza]

This woman thought it was appropriate to claim her Congolese boss Patrick, who was only ever nice to her, raped and killed her'friend', Mez.

Shouldn't it give you pause to think that Lumumba was unequivocally cleared? Remember that Mignini didn't think we has involved just because Amanda said so. He was convinced so much that Lumumba was arrested in his house in the middle of the night and paraded out in handcuffs in front of his wife and children. Mignini then spun this lurid tale of how Lumumba was obsessed with Meredith, watched her in his bar, and fantasized about having sex with her. Fortunately, Lumumba was able to provide an alibi. But what happened to Mignini's conviction regarding his motives? If he was so wrong about Lumumba, could he be wrong about others?

You have sex on the brain. You never stop talking about sex orgies.

I think this statement should be directed at Mignini.

 

[Planigale]

For the record, it was Amanda who was the first to assert it was a sex crime. Nobody forced her to accuse Patrick of rape, not did anyone make her claim she took Patrick to the cottage for sex with Mez.

Given the nature of the despicable crime, there was clearly sexual abuse involved. Amanda had written lurid stories fantasising about the rape of women and supports a rapist jailed for less than six months because she believes it's the victim's fault.

THIS IS A LIE. I see you are back and still putting a lie in every post. What is worse is this is the exact opposite of Knox's stated position on the victims of rape. For any lurkers virtually every post of Vixen's contains a falsehood either through ignorance or as in this case what must be a deliberate lie as it is the polar opposite of what Knox has written.

 

[Bill Williams]

This woman thought it was appropriate to claim her Congolese boss Patrick, who was only ever nice to her, raped and killed her'friend', Mez.

Shouldn't it give you pause to think that Lumumba was unequivocally cleared? Remember that Mignini didn't think we has involved just because Amanda said so. He was convinced so much that Lumumba was arrested in his house in the middle of the night and paraded out in handcuffs in front of his wife and children. Mignini then spun this lurid tale of how Lumumba was obsessed with Meredith, watched her in his bar, and fantasized about having sex with her. Fortunately, Lumumba was able to provide an alibi. But what happened to Mignini's conviction regarding his motives? If he was so wrong about Lumumba, could he be wrong about others?

According to the earliest reports - which, although not early in itself - John Follain wrote in his book ("A Death in Italy") that the only reason Lumumba was arrested that Amanda had named him. However, the way Follain relates it, it is confusing. Follain relates it immediately following citing that Mignini thought Amanda a liar.

Someone should, in this post-exoneration period, put Follain and Mignini into a room (like they did Mignini for the documentary) and ask them - which is it? Is Amanda a liar, and if so why then go out and arrest Lumumba if it is ONLY on her say-so?

You have sex on the brain. You never stop talking about sex orgies.

I think this statement should be directed at Mignini.

If one goes back..... waaaayyyyyyyyy back, to Continuation 17 of this thread, one sees that it is Vixen who posts post after post which sluttifies Amanda Knox.

It's like we were back in that 2008 period that Nick Pisa talks about in the documentary - this story had everything: murder and potential girl on girl sex and jealousy.

Except that Nick Pisa now, in the documentary, gives us the reason why he never fact-checked the stuff leaking out from the prosecution; all the early slutty stuff.

That reason? If one stopped to fact-check, then they'd lose a scoop, and potentially lose space on the Tabloid front page back home - and a paycheque.

It created the sluttified atmosphere that now even Nick Pisa hypocritically says is what caused this case to fall off the rails.

Go back to Continuation 17 of this thread; and see the sluttification which began again back then (c. Aug 2015), because it looks to be starting again.

Such is the life of the guilt-PR Offensive that a hard-core are trying to keep going.

 

[Bill Williams]

THIS IS A LIE. I see you are back and still putting a lie in every post. What is worse is this is the exact opposite of Knox's stated position on the victims of rape. For any lurkers virtually every post of Vixen's contains a falsehood either through ignorance or as in this case what must be a deliberate lie as it is the polar opposite of what Knox has written.

Of course it's a lie. Vixen is engaging in classic strawman, claiming that Knox, "supports a rapist jailed for less than six months because she believes it's the victim's fault."

Of course Vixen will never in a million years provide a cite for this lie. The reason? Knox never said that.

So it's good enough for Vixen to chuck in the strawman - no one, Knox included, has ever said that. But if you chuck it into a post enough times, some start believing it - or worse, thinking, "well there must be some truth to this or why would someone repeat it?"

Why indeed? It would not be the guilt PR-campaign would it?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Two things Ms. Knox wrote

SNIP
Given the nature of the despicable crime, there was clearly sexual abuse involved. Amanda had written lurid stories fantasising about the rape of women and supports a rapist jailed for less than six months because she believes it's the victim's fault.

I read Amanda's short story long ago. It bore no relationship to the description Follain peddled (he changed the gender of the rapist). I came away from reading the story thinking that the focus of the story was how disappointed the older brother was in the younger brother; it was not a lurid fantasy at all. With respect to the last sentence, this seems to be a reference to an article that Ms. Knox wrote about the Brock Turner case. Exactly nothing in her article blames the victim of this sexual assault.

 

[Vixen]

THIS IS A LIE. I see you are back and still putting a lie in every post. What is worse is this is the exact opposite of Knox's stated position on the victims of rape. For any lurkers virtually every post of Vixen's contains a falsehood either through ignorance or as in this case what must be a deliberate lie as it is the polar opposite of what Knox has written.

She did indeed argue for Brook Turner to have a light sentence and graphically described what Brook did to an unconscious woman in a public place, including sending indecent photos to his swimming mates.

 

[Vixen]

According to the earliest reports - which, although not early in itself - John Follain wrote in his book ("A Death in Italy") that the only reason Lumumba was arrested that Amanda had named him. However, the way Follain relates it, it is confusing. Follain relates it immediately following citing that Mignini thought Amanda a liar.

Someone should, in this post-exoneration period, put Follain and Mignini into a room (like they did Mignini for the documentary) and ask them - which is it? Is Amanda a liar, and if so why then go out and arrest Lumumba if it is ONLY on her say-so?





If one goes back..... waaaayyyyyyyyy back, to Continuation 17 of this thread, one sees that it is Vixen who posts post after post which sluttifies Amanda Knox.

It's like we were back in that 2008 period that Nick Pisa talks about in the documentary - this story had everything: murder and potential girl on girl sex and jealousy.

Except that Nick Pisa now, in the documentary, gives us the reason why he never fact-checked the stuff leaking out from the prosecution; all the early slutty stuff.

That reason? If one stopped to fact-check, then they'd lose a scoop, and potentially lose space on the Tabloid front page back home - and a paycheque.

It created the sluttified atmosphere that now even Nick Pisa hypocritically says is what caused this case to fall off the rails.

Go back to Continuation 17 of this thread; and see the sluttification which began again back then (c. Aug 2015), because it looks to be starting again.

Such is the life of the guilt-PR Offensive that a hard-core are trying to keep going.

Police went to arrest Patrick, because that is their job when someone reports someone to be a murderer and rapist. Police witnesses saw Amanda put on a great dramatic act of being really scared of Patrick.

How would she have known before the police did that Mez had been sexually assaulted, yet she reiterated to the police verbally and in writing that Patrick did it, and remains definitively convicted for life for the calumny.

Both Amanda and Raff mention Mez' jeans in the first instance: Amanda to everybody in her address book, in the early hours of the morning of 4 Nov and Raff in his first police statement 5 Nov 2007. Both had Mez' jeans at the forefront of their minds. Both had knowledge of their removal from the victim's body.

 

[Vixen]

Of course it's a lie. Vixen is engaging in classic strawman, claiming that Knox, "supports a rapist jailed for less than six months because she believes it's the victim's fault."

Of course Vixen will never in a million years provide a cite for this lie. The reason? Knox never said that.

So it's good enough for Vixen to chuck in the strawman - no one, Knox included, has ever said that. But if you chuck it into a post enough times, some start believing it - or worse, thinking, "well there must be some truth to this or why would someone repeat it?"

Why indeed? It would not be the guilt PR-campaign would it?

She did indeed write in WSH:

Judge Perky’s humanization of Turner-the-criminal is not abominable. However, Judge Persky’s restraint did in fact favor leniency at the expense of deterrence, and he deferred responsibility for the denunciation of the crime onto the rest of society, which, unfortunately, isn’t historically good at humanizing criminals and refraining from seeking vengeance.

It would indeed be an important reparation to Emily Doe if somehow society were able to make Turner recognize his wrongdoing. But there is no way to do that. No amount or form of punishment will necessarily make a perpetrator in denial recognize their fault.

 

[Vixen]

I read Amanda's short story long ago. It bore no relationship to the description Follain peddled (he changed the gender of the rapist). I came away from reading the story thinking that the focus of the story was how disappointed the older brother was in the younger brother; it was not a lurid fantasy at all. With respect to the last sentence, this seems to be a reference to an article that Ms. Knox wrote about the Brock Turner case. Exactly nothing in her article blames the victim of this sexual assault.

There have been at least three stories made public. In 'Little Brother' she has the perp saying, 'What you need to know about chicks is that they don't know what they want' (paraphrase) and describes administering 'Hard A' intoxicant to his victim. Another story is of a creepy stalker taking indecent photos. Then one in prison about a topless victim lying on the floor after been stabbed by people at a party and laments how the narrator failed to help her.

This is someone obsessed by sex and has a narcissistic belief she invented it, hence the constant bragging of her lays. Federico the drug dealer (Cristiano Martini) was posted to myspace half naked.

 

[Bill Williams]

Police went to arrest Patrick, because that is their job when someone reports someone to be a murderer and rapist. Police witnesses saw Amanda put on a great dramatic act of being really scared of Patrick.

How would she have known before the police did that Mez had been sexually assaulted, yet she reiterated to the police verbally and in writing that Patrick did it, and remains definitively convicted for life for the calumny.

Both Amanda and Raff mention Mez' jeans in the first instance: Amanda to everybody in her address book, in the early hours of the morning of 4 Nov and Raff in his first police statement 5 Nov 2007. Both had Mez' jeans at the forefront of their minds. Both had knowledge of their removal from the victim's body.

Would you please refrain from the use of Meredith's Kercher's nickname. You are not a friend nor are you family. Please stop it.

The other thing you can stop doing is pretending you know what is in people's minds.

It is also the height of ......... to cling to the notion that Knox is "definitively convicted for life" on one, while not recognizing that both she and Sollecito are definitively exonerated for life on the larger charges.

Another day in the pro-guilt PR campaign, I suppose.

 

[Vixen]

Would you please refrain from the use of Meredith's Kercher's nickname. You are not a friend nor are you family. Please stop it.

The other thing you can stop doing is pretending you know what is in people's minds.

It is also the height of ......... to cling to the notion that Knox is "definitively convicted for life" on one, while not recognizing that both she and Sollecito are definitively exonerated for life on the larger charges.

Another day in the pro-guilt PR campaign, I suppose.

You don't have any say in people's style. It's not all about you. They have not been exonerated.

 

[Bill Williams]

You don't have any say in people's style. It's not all about you. They have not been exonerated.

Wow - if you did not have strawman, you'd have nothing. I have no authority over you to force you to quit being so rude, I'm trying to appeal to a sense of decency.

And, yes for the umpteeth time, they have been exonerated. For the umpteenth time read what a subsequent Italian judge related as a judicial fact:

CONSIDERED AS FACTS AND MATTERS OF LAW

The defendant was summoned to trial by the Judge of the Preliminary hearings
with the decree of 20-Mar-2015, for the facts cited in the charges.

The case is a follow-on of a more complex and serious one, regarding the
murder of Meredith Kercher, a young English student, which occurred in Perugia
between 01-Nov and 02-Nov-2007. Those proceedings concluded with the exoneration of the defendant of murder, that she was accused of together with her
boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, and with her conviction for calumny against Patrick
Lumumba, after two Assizes trials in Perugia, with initially a conviction followed by exoneration, a partial annulment by the Court of Cassation, for the murder, another
appeal trial in Florence, and finally, the definitive annulment of the conviction of the second level verdict delivered in the referral trial.​

For heaven's sake, would you quit this, too?

 

[LondonJohn]

Wow - if you did not have strawman, you'd have nothing. I have no authority over you to force you to quit being so rude, I'm trying to appeal to a sense of decency.

And, yes for the umpteeth time, they have been exonerated. For the umpteenth time read what a subsequent Italian judge related as a judicial fact:

​

For heaven's sake, would you quit this, too?

No but, ermmm,...... but.......... when Bonsidooblywotsit (_sp?) uses the Italian word equivalent to the English "exoneration", it's not, ermmmm..... meant in a...... ummmmmm...... LEGAL sense....... but........ hang on a mo...... searching for rationalisation......... ermmmm. GOT IT!!! purely colloquial sense with no need for anyone to read anything more into it than that! Yes! That makes sense in Bizarro World, I'm pretty certain..........

<fx looks round, laughs nervously, waits to see if anyone really swallows any of this crap>

 

[Stacyhs]

Incorrect. There were fragments below the legally accepted standard, which is over ten alleles to be significant of ID. There would be a risk of contamination if those were accepted, because they are of the type found in household dust. You do know Vinci for the defence found 6-8 alleles of Amanda and Rudy on the bra fabric and Gill's chum, Pascali, walked off the case shortly after?

...And that a fair hair was found in that region, too?You have sex on the brain. You never stop talking about sex orgies.

Oh, for heaven's sake! She's back to the blonde hair crap again! She still doesn't get the fact that dyed hair is easily identifiable under a microscope and this hair was NOT identified as dyed....as Amanda's was. Talk about refusing to see the freaking obvious!

 

[Mike1711]

Do you think your DNA is going to be found at a murder scene by flying through the air and through walls? Or perhaps it floated under a locked door and wriggled underneath the body, rather like Raff's.

No, but I did shake the hand of a man seen at the murder scene a few days earlier...or was it the library book at the murder scene which I'm sure I borrowed once. ...or perhaps those gloves stolen from my car? Dunno...countless ways to explain the travels of DNA.

 

[Stacyhs]

No, but I did shake the hand of a man seen at the murder scene a few days earlier...or was it the library book at the murder scene which I'm sure I borrowed once. ...or perhaps those gloves stolen from my car? Dunno...countless ways to explain the travels of DNA.

There is the documented case of the DNA of a woman being found at 40 crime scenes including six murder cases. This "serial killer" took 10 years to find: the "killer" was a factory worker whose DNA had been transferred at the manufacturer onto the swabs used by the forensic teams. These swabs then transferred her DNA onto the samples collected at the crime scenes.

Then there's the case of Lukis Anderson whose DNA was found on the fingernails of a murder victim. Anderson was charged with murder and spent 5 1/2 months in jail. Trouble is, Anderson was in the hospital at the time of the murder with a blood alcohol level so high he was in danger of dying. As it turned out, both Anderson and the murder victim had been transported via ambulance by the same paramedics. Luckily for Anderson, having a solid alibi saved him from likely being convicted for a murder he didn't commit.

There are also confirmed cases of DNA being transferred during autopsies via the medical equipment.

But it's totally impossible that Raffaele's DNA could be transferred onto the tiny bra hook by a latex glove, a shoe stepping on it, etc.

 

[NotEvenWrong]

There is the documented case of the DNA of a woman being found at 40 crime scenes including six murder cases. This "serial killer" took 10 years to find: the "killer" was a factory worker whose DNA had been transferred at the manufacturer onto the swabs used by the forensic teams. These swabs then transferred her DNA onto the samples collected at the crime scenes.

Then there's the case of Lukis Anderson whose DNA was found on the fingernails of a murder victim. Anderson was charged with murder and spent 5 1/2 months in jail. Trouble is, Anderson was in the hospital at the time of the murder with a blood alcohol level so high he was in danger of dying. As it turned out, both Anderson and the murder victim had been transported via ambulance by the same paramedics. Luckily for Anderson, having a solid alibi saved him from likely being convicted for a murder he didn't commit.

There are also confirmed cases of DNA being transferred during autopsies via the medical equipment.

But it's totally impossible that Raffaele's DNA could be transferred onto the tiny bra hook by a latex glove, a shoe stepping on it, etc.

Stacyhs,
Is it possible that, much like Amanda Knox, this serial killer factory worker and this Lukis Anderson fellow are actually pagan Beelzebub sex wizards? We don't yet know if they were promiscuous, after all. Perhaps Vixen can team with ol' Stinky Pete, Mignini, and Ergon the intertubes prophet to uncover more about their sex lives? We can't let these criminals run loose. DNA is DNA, ya know.

 

[Bill Williams]

And, yes for the umpteeth time, they have been exonerated. For the umpteenth time read what a subsequent Italian judge related as a judicial fact:

CONSIDERED AS FACTS AND MATTERS OF LAW

The defendant was summoned to trial by the Judge of the Preliminary hearings
with the decree of 20-Mar-2015, for the facts cited in the charges.

The case is a follow-on of a more complex and serious one, regarding the
murder of Meredith Kercher, a young English student, which occurred in Perugia
between 01-Nov and 02-Nov-2007. Those proceedings concluded with the exoneration of the defendant of murder, that she was accused of together with her
boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, and with her conviction for calumny against Patrick
Lumumba, after two Assizes trials in Perugia, with initially a conviction followed by exoneration, a partial annulment by the Court of Cassation, for the murder, another
appeal trial in Florence, and finally, the definitive annulment of the conviction of the second level verdict delivered in the referral trial.​

Someone said they wanted to see the original Italian. Here it is, it's the best I can do on a case that has been settled for 20 months.

 

[Vixen]

Someone said they wanted to see the original Italian. Here it is, it's the best I can do on a case that has been settled for 20 months.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_5397158275bf283b37.jpg[/qimg]

Annulment = vacated. NOT exonerated. Marasca spells it out large they were at the murder scence, Amanda washed off Mez' blood from her hands and DID cover up for Rudy. Rudy was one of the killers. What part of the equation escapes you?