President Trump

[a_unique_person]

I've long thought that it was impossible to underestimate the intellect of the US electorate. Then, as it became apparent that Trump would lose, I had to loosen my grip on that concept. It's bleakly reassuring that I was right to begin with.

A cynic is rarely disappointed.

 

[Stacko]

Ugh.

JUST IN: Sen Tom Cotton to CNN: "Waterboarding isn't torture..Donald Trump is a pretty tough guy and he's ready to make those tough calls"​

 

[Travis]

And here we have what Michael Moore thinks is the stupidest thing that Liberals do: Badmouth and ridicule White Blue Collar voters and Rural Voters, and wonder why they don't vote Democratic.

I guess that is something that was not predicted but still happened.

For many years, the white, middle class, semi educated demographic... (you know who I mean; the ones that worked in the steel mills and the factories and the mines, and who farmed the land and provided soldiers for all of America's wars, in other words, those who were once the backbone of America) have felt left behind, taken for granted and disenfranchised.

There is nothing Trump, or any politician, can do to help them. They are uneducated in an information age and under-skilled in a global economy. They are screwed and nothing can change that. Their jobs and way of life can no more be brought back by any political policy than we can stop puberty or the tides with a new law.

So, considering their way of life and small town economy are inevitably doomed, I had hoped they would vote for larger issues of progress and equality and not for their own personal wants and needs.

 

[dudalb]

There is nothing Trump, or any politician, can do to help them. They are uneducated in an information age and under-skilled in a global economy. They are screwed and nothing can change that. Their jobs and way of life can no more be brought back by any political policy than we can stop puberty or the tides with a new law.

So, considering their way of life and small town economy are inevitably doomed, I had hoped they would vote for larger issues of progress and equality and not for their own personal wants and needs.

That is the phoniness of Trump's promises. Most of the manufacturing jobs that left for overseas in the 70's and 80's have left China and other countries also; the robots have taken over. Now you just need one worker to watch 5 assemply line robots.
It's a crock.

Now if he talked about creating new jobs in new industries he would have had a better selling point.
I not quite ready to write off a good hunk of rural and blue collar America yet.

 

[logger]

Bull. I read many of his speeches. I've never heard anyone ramble on with so little detail. "America, I'm the only one who can solve your problems. I'll make America great. Never how. I forgot, you guys believe a mythical guy in the sky can solve all your problems without telling anyone how, so why not believe the bile from the orange buffoon.

You're not following along, I'm talking about Hillary and I can agree the Donald did the same. I was just reminding the poster that hills loves the mud too.

 

[newyorkguy]

There is nothing Trump, or any politician, can do to help them. They are uneducated in an information age and under-skilled in a global economy. They are screwed and nothing can change that. Their jobs and way of life can no more be brought back by any political policy than we can stop puberty or the tides with a new law...

There is a lot of truth in the above and I'm white working class. As an example, manufacturing jobs. I worked in contract manufacturing for over twenty years. I really don't see what government can do to help manufacturing. To my understanding a lot of it is price competition. It's relentless and remorseless. If an American company that markets and sells products can get significantly lower unit costs by having those products manufactured in Mexico or overseas -- and the quality is within standards -- they are going to do so. In large part this was driven by the consumer lobby that demanded lower prices. It's price, price, price. If your product is above market price and there is nothing extraordinary about your product (something that would justify the higher price) a lot of retailers won't even put it on the shelf. I don't see how the federal government can change that. Doing away with regulations won't work. First of all, who wants regulations guaranteeing consumers a safe, sanitary product abolished? There are a few things the regulators could do away with but I don't think they would have any real significant effect on price.

During the debates they could not get Trump to answer the question, "How would you bring manufacturing jobs back to the U.S.A.?" He dodged and evaded and finally answered, "By not letting them leave in the first place." And that's what every candidate says. By streamlining the regulatory process, by giving tax breaks and etc. It has never worked because it is no match for a manufacturer transferring his operation overseas and getting a mammoth reduction in unit costs.

You know what they might try? Outlaw the enormous container ships that bring the stuff back from Asia. Those ships are highly automated. They virtually load and unload themselves. The transportation cost from a Chinese port to a West Coast port is pennies per unit price.

It's an uphill battle and one I don't think this country can win. Unless...the American consumer was willing to pay a premium to buy products that are manufactured here in the U.S. by 100% American labor. That's what it would take. That's what the United Auto Workers tried thirty years ago -- the Buy American! campaign -- and it didn't work then and it won't work now.

This idea Trump has floated about putting big tariffs on products manufactured overseas and exported to the U.S. will result in the American consumer paying much higher prices. High enough that yes, some of the manufacturers might give up and move the manufacturing back to the U.S. But it would be hugely inflationary and probably drive down sales.

 

[logger]

There is nothing Trump, or any politician, can do to help them. They are uneducated in an information age and under-skilled in a global economy. They are screwed and nothing can change that. Their jobs and way of life can no more be brought back by any political policy than we can stop puberty or the tides with a new law.

So, considering their way of life and small town economy are inevitably doomed, I had hoped they would vote for larger issues of progress and equality and not for their own personal wants and needs.

You haven't a clue, the jobs they have will always be around, the trick is getting their wages up.

 

[logger]

There is a lot of truth in the above and I'm white working class. As an example, manufacturing jobs. I worked in contract manufacturing for over twenty years. I really don't see what government can do to help manufacturing. To my understanding a lot of it is price competition. It's relentless and remorseless. If an American company that markets and sells products can get significantly lower unit costs by having those products manufactured in Mexico or overseas -- and the quality is within standards -- they are going to do so. In large part this was driven by the consumer lobby that demanded lower prices. It's price, price, price. If your product is above market price and there is nothing extraordinary about your product (something that would justify the higher price) a lot of retailers won't even put it on the shelf. I don't see how the federal government can change that. Doing away with regulations won't work. First of all, who wants regulations guaranteeing consumers a safe, sanitary product abolished? There are a few things the regulators could do away with but I don't think they would have any real significant effect on price.

During the debates they could not get Trump to answer the question, "How would you bring manufacturing jobs back to the U.S.A.?" He dodged and evaded and finally answered, "By not letting them leave in the first place." And that's what every candidate says. By streamlining the regulatory process, by giving tax breaks and etc. It has never worked because it is no match for a manufacturer transferring his operation overseas and getting a mammoth reduction in unit costs.

You know what they might try? Outlaw the enormous container ships that bring the stuff back from Asia. Those ships are highly automated. They virtually load and unload themselves. The transportation cost from a Chinese port to a West Coast port is pennies per unit price.

It's an uphill battle and one I don't think this country can win. Unless...the American consumer was willing to pay a premium to buy products that are manufactured here in the U.S. by 100% American labor. That's what it would take. That's what the United Auto Workers tried thirty years ago -- the Buy American! campaign -- and it didn't work then and it won't work now.

This idea Trump has floated about putting big tariffs on products manufactured overseas and exported to the U.S. will result in the American consumer paying much higher prices. High enough that yes, some of the manufacturers might give up and move the manufacturing back to the U.S. But it would be hugely inflationary and probably drive down sales.

All you have to do is leave this to people who know how to create jobs, libs could never figure this out.

 

[smartcooky]

I do think the Electoral College system seems like something of a sham.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, if you have a state like California which has 55 (?) Electoral College votes, and one party wins that state by 1 voter, then that party's candidate gets the whole 55 college votes for that State. This hardly seem very democratic to me.

 

[Belz...]

I do think the Electoral College system seems like something of a sham.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, if you have a state like California which has 55 (?) Electoral College votes, and one party wins that state by 1 voter, then that party's candidate gets the whole 55 college votes for that State. This hardly seem very democratic to me.

How would you make it work for 50 states?

 

[ponderingturtle]

You haven't a clue, the jobs they have will always be around, the trick is getting their wages up.

And a trade war is the best answer?

 

[Spindrift]

You're not following along, I'm talking about Hillary and I can agree the Donald did the same. I was just reminding the poster that hills loves the mud too.

SO which Hillary speech did you listen to?

 

[Spindrift]

All you have to do is leave this to people who know how to create jobs, libs could never figure this out.

How many jobs has Donald created? Besides the ones he outsourced to illegal workers, of course.

 

[newyorkguy]

You haven't a clue, the jobs they have will always be around, the trick is getting their wages up.

The jobs they have will always be around? Like coal mining, auto workers, manufacturing jobs? What jobs was Trump referring to when he kept promising to "bring our jobs home?" The trick is getting their wages up? Where did you get the idea the Republican Party wants to see working people get higher wages for doing the same job? Do you just write down anything that pops into your head?

As for creating jobs, I worked for people who created manufacturing jobs, hundreds of jobs over a period of thirty years. That's where I get this from. From the meetings I used to have to sit through where we discussed in detail the challenges we faced.

People in Florida complain that they applied for jobs in Trump's resort, jobs they were qualified for, but never even got an interview. You know why? Trump was and is bringing in guest workers from Third World countries.

The situation is a lot tougher than you appear to be aware of. In a way you're very lucky.

 

[Spindrift]

You haven't a clue, the jobs they have will always be around, the trick is getting their wages up.

They will always be around? How are the factory jobs still around when the factories aren't around? How are the steel mill jobs around if the steel mill doesn't exist?

 

[acbytesla]

I do think the Electoral College system seems like something of a sham.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, if you have a state like California which has 55 (?) Electoral College votes, and one party wins that state by 1 voter, then that party's candidate gets the whole 55 college votes for that State. This hardly seem very democratic to me.

No and neither is states like Montana, North Dakota and Alaska all having less than 1/53 rd the population of California yet all having the same number of Senators (2)in the US Senate. Or DC having no Congressmen or Senators at all and they have a larger population than Wyoming which has 2 Senators and a Congressman.

There are all kinds of unusual idiosyncrasies in the government of the United States. Our form of government stinks. It's been copied, but not very successfully. It is shocking in many ways that it has survived this long. Parliamentary systems are better in my opinion.

 

[smartcooky]

You know what they might try? Outlaw the enormous container ships that bring the stuff back from Asia. Those ships are highly automated. They virtually load and unload themselves. The transportation cost from a Chinese port to a West Coast port is pennies per unit price.

Another thing they might try is to whack a huge import duty/levy on finished items being imported from overseas that they deem could have been manufactured in the USA. e.g. if apple makes iPhones in Asia, they pay a 40% levy per phone, if theymake them in the USA, no levy.

Not saying I agree with it, just suggesting that they might try something like this!

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Lol

Your education has turned you into a liberal who cannot think for himself, this leads you to regurgitate whatever the latest big government elite cabal is interested in.

When will you and other libs realize small government freedom has created the greatest country ever. Yours is a dream of going backwards into failed socialistic ideas.

Don't worry though, no one from the right is coming after you, that is a tactic of the left, hillary and this election should have taught you that, but you probably justified all of her tactics.

I was just looking at county by county results. Hillary won every county with a college.

Education Is The Other.

 

[BobTheCoward]

I do think the Electoral College system seems like something of a sham.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, if you have a state like California which has 55 (?) Electoral College votes, and one party wins that state by 1 voter, then that party's candidate gets the whole 55 college votes for that State. This hardly seem very democratic to me.

First, each state can allocate their electoral college delegates however they wish. The simple majority rule is not required and two states do not use it.

Second, there are other important values than democracy. The UN does not use global population votes nor assign proportional representation based on population. The EU is bicameral with the council having one vote per nation. The idea that there is a circle of equals among nations is an important value in unions. The electoral college manages to reflect both values at once.

 

[newyorkguy]

...This idea Trump has floated about putting big tariffs on products manufactured overseas and exported to the U.S. will result in the American consumer paying much higher prices. High enough that yes, some of the manufacturers might give up and move the manufacturing back to the U.S. But it would be hugely inflationary and probably drive down sales.

Another thing they might try is to whack a huge import duty/levy on finished items being imported from overseas that they deem could have been manufactured in the USA. e.g. if apple makes iPhones in Asia, they pay a 40% levy per phone, if they make them in the USA, no levy. Not saying I agree with it, just suggesting that they might try something like this!

Trump has suggested that. But it's a tough problem. Don't forget, there's some very smart people who have invested a lot of time and effort on trying to solve this. The problem with the punitive tariff is, it will tend to raise prices on consumer goods and that is inflationary and also tends to drive down sales. It also usually triggers retaliation from the overseas nations.

There is no simple solution, it's a very very tough problem. When I suggested outlawing modern container ships I was being facetious. If there was a simple solution someone would have found it thirty years ago.