Belz...
Fiend God
I had not realised up until now the depths of your dishonesty. I was talking about rape fantasies AND YOU KNOW IT.
Split Thread Language and labels - paedophile or child-molester
I had not realised up until now the depths of your dishonesty. I was talking about rape fantasies AND YOU KNOW IT.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
OK. What do you find good about rape fantasy?
Belz...
Fiend God
Like all fantasies, it's good to think about.
You do understand the difference between fantasizing about something and wanting it to happen, right?
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
Rape fantasies are a lot more popular than most people realize, and are engaged in by women more than men. Read any random collection of romance novels, a genre read almost exclusively by women, and you will encounter rape scenes in nearly every example. Such fantasies are also commonplace throughout traditional folk tales (the original story of Cinderella had the prince waking her up by raping her, not kissing her, and in one variation, she didn't wake up but actually bore a child in her sleep). Even modern entertainment is full of them, or sublimated versions of them; the highly popular Twilight series, and its spinoffs like 50 Shades of Gray, being the most glaring examples.
For women, and certain types of (mostly) gay men, rape fantasies are a way to cede responsibility for sex in cultures that stigmatize female sexuality. In the context of such fantasies, they are able to enjoy the pleasures of sex, but without having to violate any of the social taboos surrounding it, and thereby not incurring the backlash of having done so.
The reality, of course, bears no resemblance to the fantasy, but that's that's the nature of fantasies.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Why? What is good about it?
Of course. I'm not stupid!
I didn't ask, nor do I care, how popular they are. I asked what is good about them.
The sort of thinking that includes fantasizing about committing physical, sexual violence against another person is completely alien to me. I accept that some people do think that way; but I don't know what makes such depraved people tick (and I don't care to find out either). I was brought up in a totally non-violent home and have lived my life the same way.
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
Of course you did, and I pointed out that that is a profoundly stupid question; only I didn't use those exact words since I expected the implication to be fairly obvious to anyone who thought it through carefully enough.
Fantasies are neither "good" nor "bad". That's a pointless value judgement. At worst, they may indicate a mental or cultural dysfunction, but in that case it's the mental or cultural health that is "bad", not the fantasies.
Belz...
Fiend God
You're like someone who doesn't like peanut butter asking someone who does what's good about it, as if your personal tastes are somehow objective. Fantasies feel good for the person having them. What's hard for you to understand?
Then what's your problem with rape fantasies?
What about those who fantasize about having said violence commited against them?
For someone who said they weren't stupid and understood the difference between fantasy and desire, you sure don't seem to make the difference, here. I hate violence in real life, for instance, but love it in fiction.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
So you're comparing peanut butter with rape fantasy now?
I don't like avocados; not at all; I can't stand the taste, and cannot understand why anyone would. However, I understand that avocados ARE good for you (packed with Vitamin B5, B6, C, E and K, and they have more potassium weight-for-weight than bananas) and I don't consider anyone who eats them to be depraved!
Do they? Why?
Why does it feel good to imagine raping someone?
They may lead to actual violence?
What about them? I guess there is no way to explain why some people have such abhorrent thoughts.
Good for you!
Belz...
Fiend God
I'm comparing tastes and preferences; harmless ones at that.
That you ask this question at all shows that you're not interested in conversation, only in confrontation.
I'm not talking about health benefits and you know it. We're talking about what individuals find pleasurable.
Why does it feel good to eat peanut butter? I'll never know.
Do you believe that violent movies or video games lead to actual violence?
I guess we should ban those thoughts, too.
You seem entirely intent on keeping face and deliberately missing the point, though I can't imagine why. Why are you even on this forum, of learning things isn't what you want?
Butter!
Rough Around the Edges
Tiny, tiny minority my ass. How dare you. I am one of MANY women who enjoys such fantasies (WITHIN the framework of my own pervy imagination and creation, of course). Depraved and abhorrent? I wish the rules permitted me to extend you a certain invitation for that one. Whom am I hurting, exactly? Who are you to be so nasty just because people are disagreeing with you about some god damn semantics in an internet thread?
You've got the vapors. You clearly know nothing about sexuality different from your own, and you have no problem being outright cruel about it to strangers with differing opinions. I'm shocked that in 2016 you would call a woman who entertains rape fantasies "depraved and abhorrent." You sound like a bigot.
I'm done with this stupidity. See, look what's happened now. I'm standing up for the pervs. In this case, damn skippy I am. Consenting adults can fantasize about whatever they damn well please. We haven't got a Ministry of Love dungeon here (although, hmmmmm, that could get interesting for some of us...). I'm still not standing up for the pedophiles and child molesters, I'm standing up for correct English. So don't go getting confused, anybody with super black and white thinking on this matter.
Where's Emily's Cat when you need her.
Butter!
Rough Around the Edges
Jesus Christ. I'm laughing now. And making fun of you. Actual violence? Really?
Look, I don't criticize people for not being as, uh, mentally adventurous as I tend to be with regard to carnal activities, but you really sound like someone who needs to get out more. You don't have to be turned on by something to be aware of its existence and general nature. There are virtually NO mainstream psychologists or human sexuality researchers who echo your pearl-clutching interpretations of rape FANTASIES. (Someone who actually desires to rape people or put himself/herself in harmful situations would be something else.) You don't understand the difference because you don't know what's out there. And you won't attempt to learn what's out there because you've decided your way is THE way. You're the moral authority on what sexual activity/inclination is and isn't objectively icky. What a laugh.
It's a big world...
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
You do realise that, almost without exception, serial rapists spend years fantasizing about violent rapes before actually turning their fantasies into reality?
Of course you did!
http://law.jrank.org/pages/1918/Rape-Behavioral-Aspects-Serial-rape.html#ixzz4PZYXz0AL
A fantasy-based drive model for serial sexual homicide (cf. Prentky and Burgess) may be helpful in trying to understand serial rape. Simply stated, once the restraints inhibiting the acting out of internally generated, recurrent rape fantasies are no longer present, the individual is likely to engage in a series of progressively more accurate "trial runs" in an attempt to "stage" the fantasies as they were imagined. Because the trial runs can never precisely match the fantasy, the offender must restage the fantasy with a new victim.
Still think rape fantasy is just a bit of harmless fun?
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Rape fantasy might be harmless in your opinion, but it is not in mine... see my previous post..
You find rape fantasy pleasurable?
Yes, I do
I know it is controversial (there are about as many psychologists on one side of the debate as there are on the other side).
I would rather remain on the side of caution.
I like to learn but I CHOOSE the subject material.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
To listen to some of these posters, you would think that fantasizing about committing violence upon others was normal and a good thing.
It isn't!
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theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
There are actually three questions:
One is, do pedophiles pose a risk?
Another is, is it appropriate to use the language of hate to refer to people who suffer from a condition they did not choose, and which they have not acted on?
Another is, is it possible to address the risk (if any), without resorting to the language of hate?
You seem to be focusing on the question of risk, as if it justifies the language of hate. I wish you'd take a little time to consider the other questions.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Well, I am just asking the first of those three questions.,
The other two questions, I have no opinion on.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
How dare you. I am one of MANY men who do not have such fantasies. Who are you to be so nasty just because people are disagreeing with you about some god damn semantics in an internet thread?
You clearly know nothing about sexuality different from your own, and you have no problem being outright cruel about it to strangers with differing opinions. I'm shocked that in 2016 you would call a man who does not entertain rape fantasies a bigot.
See how easy it was to put that shoe on the other foot?
And where the hell is cullennz when you need him?
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Tthis thread is explicitly about language and labels. If you have no opinion on questions of language and labels, then you're posting off-topic. Should I report you?
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Well report yourself then. You were asking the question!!