Split Thread the TM and anti-semitism

[Oystein]

Remind me - were some of them actually Israeli, or were they just Jewish and therefore assumed by you to be Israeli dual citizens? ...

Quick reminder: Bazant isn't even Jewish at all!
Anti-semites made that bit up because it fit their anti-semitic prejudice, and Notconvinced ran with it because it fits his own anti-semitic, anti-reality convictions

 

[Dave Rogers]

Quick reminder: Bazant isn't even Jewish at all!

I was asking about Notconvinced's comment about the PNAC signatories, which he doesn't seem to have mentioned before in this thread. I'm not sure whether it's the same issue as Chertoff, whose Jewishness seems to implicate all other Jews, though of course for no anti-Semitic reasons whatsoever.

Dave

 

[Oystein]

Ken O'Keefe is earning his living mixing and spreading 9/11 Truth with old-fashioned anti-semitism. He is currently on a tour, had a stop recently in Toronto, organized by Truther Barry Zwicker, and now Truther Craig McKee, closely associated with AE911Truth (their most prolific named author during the last 2 years) wrote an enthusiastic blog about the event:

https://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2016/05/19/okeefe-911-gift/

McKee quotes O'Keefe thusly:

“On a physical level, the amount of power within this tiny percentage of the human population, the Jewish population, is simply stunning. Less than two percent of the human population and it pervades all the top levels of the corporate world, the banking sector, the mass media, they own Hollywood, they’re in the Supreme Court, they run the courts largely.

This is old-fashioned anti-semitism, the Mother of all CTs: Jews are alleged to run the banks, and thus the economy, and thus the governments - in all of the world.
McKee speaks with no reservation or distance about "the New World Order, the 9/11 false flag, and the exaggerated and destructive influence of Israel", as if this complex really is all the same: Jews are the prime evil behind Everything - that is the message.

The comments, meanwhile, argue about which flavor of holocaust "revisionism" is to be prefered, with Adam Syed "merely" denying gas chambers (citing revisionist David Cole - not to be confused with the 9/11 Truther of the same name who posts as kawika) while acknowledging across-the-board nazi state measures against Jews as Jews, while commenter "sockpuppet2012" denies that there was a specific plan to exterminate Jews: "The 'holocaust is a Hoax'".

Then look at "fremo.remo.", who is identical, I think, with our own banned member "remo": "I thank mister O’Keefe as I do George Galloway and Christopher Bollyn and Kevin Barrett and all other brave souls who have so far aquitted themselves effectively in exposing Israel and neocon.". What a fine collection of anti-semites he lists as heros.

 

[ProBonoShill]

Ken O'Keefe is earning his living mixing and spreading 9/11 Truth with old-fashioned anti-semitism. He is currently on a tour, had a stop recently in Toronto, organized by Truther Barry Zwicker, and now Truther Craig McKee, closely associated with AE911Truth (their most prolific named author during the last 2 years) wrote an enthusiastic blog about the event:

https://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2016/05/19/okeefe-911-gift/

McKee quotes O'Keefe thusly:

This is old-fashioned anti-semitism, the Mother of all CTs: Jews are alleged to run the banks, and thus the economy, and thus the governments - in all of the world.
McKee speaks with no reservation or distance about "the New World Order, the 9/11 false flag, and the exaggerated and destructive influence of Israel", as if this complex really is all the same: Jews are the prime evil behind Everything - that is the message.

The comments, meanwhile, argue about which flavor of holocaust "revisionism" is to be prefered, with Adam Syed "merely" denying gas chambers (citing revisionist David Cole - not to be confused with the 9/11 Truther of the same name who posts as kawika) while acknowledging across-the-board nazi state measures against Jews as Jews, while commenter "sockpuppet2012" denies that there was a specific plan to exterminate Jews: "The 'holocaust is a Hoax'".

Then look at "fremo.remo.", who is identical, I think, with our own banned member "remo": "I thank mister O’Keefe as I do George Galloway and Christopher Bollyn and Kevin Barrett and all other brave souls who have so far aquitted themselves effectively in exposing Israel and neocon.". What a fine collection of anti-semites he lists as heros.

What a bunch of sick people, then again as I've said before I believe you must have some type of mental issue to be a truther, normal people don't think this way.

 

[Oystein]

Just came across this on a Facebook group called "Fair 9/11 Debates", which is run by both truthers and debunkers, trying to stay on the high road:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1449086582078917/permalink/1715306258790280/
A woman called Nicky Nelson, who proudly presents a yellow "9/11 Truth USA" banner in her profil pick, writes about anti-semite Christopher Bollyn and what he said in some YT video.
If you can't open the link, perhaps this will help - that's Nicky posting on her personal profile:
https://www.facebook.com/JuicingJourneys/posts/1210326945713834

Some gems from her text:

...
"THEN AS NOW 9/11 AND THE HOLOCAUST . . .

What we are living is a lie, we are ruled by a parasitic cabal of Jewish Zionists who control the very narrative of our lives.
...
Always the parasitic nature of Zionism controls the Empire, then England now the United States.

Hitler no matter what you think of the man was used by the Zionists to create the very scenario that fueled Jewish immigration to the land of Palestine. These things we must come to know in order to unchain the world from the Zionist's grip upon our souls.

"I No Longer Believe The Jewish Holocaust Was Real or Happened"

That's 9/11 Truth, folks

 

[JSanderO]

Just came across this on a Facebook group called "Fair 9/11 Debates", which is run by both truthers and debunkers, trying to stay on the high road:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1449086582078917/permalink/1715306258790280/
A woman called Nicky Nelson, who proudly presents a yellow "9/11 Truth USA" banner in her profil pick, writes about anti-semite Christopher Bollyn and what he said in some YT video.
If you can't open the link, perhaps this will help - that's Nicky posting on her personal profile:
https://www.facebook.com/JuicingJourneys/posts/1210326945713834

Some gems from her text:


That's 9/11 Truth, folks

So many idiots and so little time. This is pure insanity.

 

[Criteria]

What does 'anti-semitism' really mean?

You might as well say anti anyone with roots in the Middle East.

The 9/11 TM is by nature neither anti-arab or anti-jew.

Suspicions about 9/11 involvement by governing bodies whose citizenry are mostly semitic, does not make one anti-semitic.

I highly dislike many members here who happen to be Americans. Does that make me anti-American?

Arabs and jews are individuals just like the rest of us.

Surely it is not irresponsible to question the behaviour of those few who exercise government power?

 

[Craig B]

Suspicions about 9/11 involvement by governing bodies whose citizenry are mostly semitic, does not make one anti-semitic.

I highly dislike many members here who happen to be Americans. Does that make me anti-American

If you dislike the Jewish American ones because they're Jews, you're antisemitic. If you dislike the whole lot of the American ones, Jews or Gentiles, because they're Americans, you're anti American.

 

[beachnut]

... The 9/11 TM is by nature neither anti-arab or anti-jew. ...

The 9/11 TM is by nature anti-intellectual.

The fact is neoNAZIs, and anti-Semitic 9/11 TM followers are part of the fringe who share a massive dose of anti-intellectualism.

 

[Mark F]

What does 'anti-semitism' really mean?

You might as well say anti anyone with roots in the Middle East.

The 9/11 TM is by nature neither anti-arab or anti-jew.

There is no 9/11 Truth Movement anymore.

Suspicions about 9/11 involvement by governing bodies whose citizenry are mostly semitic, does not make one anti-semitic.

It does if those suspicions are based entirely on a dislike of Jews for being Jews,... which it invariably does.

I highly dislike many members here who happen to be Americans. Does that make me anti-American?

It does if you dislike them because they are American.

Arabs and jews are individuals just like the rest of us.

You should stop rationalizing while you aren't ahead.

 

[Oystein]

If you dislike the Jewish American ones because they're Jews, you're antisemitic. If you dislike the whole lot of the American ones, Jews or Gentiles, because they're Americans, you're anti American.

Many Truthers are Truthers because they hate America for being controlled by that old Jewish master cabal, you know, the mother of all conspiracies that made even Hitler a patsy of Jews.

And then there are many Truthers who make excuses for these rabid anti-semites. Often, such excuses start with words similar to "What does 'anti-semitism' really mean?". Anti-semitism isn't bad as long as you make up your own definition for it.

 

[Criteria]

Many Truthers are Truthers because they hate America for being controlled by that old Jewish master cabal, you know, the mother of all conspiracies that made even Hitler a patsy of Jews.

And then there are many Truthers who make excuses for these rabid anti-semites.

Often, such excuses start with words similar to "What does 'anti-semitism' really mean?".

Anti-semitism isn't bad as long as you make up your own definition for it.

'Truthers' are people looking for answers to important unanswered questions about 9/11.

Are you suggesting that among the ranks of people who oppose the goal of "Truthers", such anti-jewish bigots as you describe are "not many"?

Anti-semitism is a condition found in a closed-mind. There are many closed minds on both sides of the fence.

 

[Belz...]

What does 'anti-semitism' really mean?

Hatred of Jews. I thought this was well-known that it didn't just mean "hatred of semitic peoples".

'Truthers' are people looking for answers to important unanswered questions about 9/11.

No, they're not. They're role-playing.

 

[Oystein]

'Truthers' are people looking for answers to important unanswered questions about 9/11.

No. Quite the opposite.
Truthers are people who reject fact-based answers. They often don't acknowledge answers have already been given. And they run run run away far and long to never, under no circumstances whatsoever, to give straight and honest answers to straight questions. You, Criteria, are a model example at least of the latter.

Are you suggesting that among the ranks of people who oppose the goal of "Truthers", such anti-jewish bigots as you describe are "not many"?

Yes. Relatively speaking.

Anti-semitism is a condition found in a closed-mind. There are many closed minds on both sides of the fence.

There are relatively FAR more on the truther side.
I don't have robust statistical data on this.

But the reality is: Every single time I read anti-semitic dreck on sites (forums, social media) dedicated to debate and dissemination of opinion on 9/11, it is a truther who utters it. I am not sure I ever came across even one exception. Not one.

Can you name a 9/11 "debunker" who is an antisemite? They are far and away the majority here on the ISF. Is there even one anti-semiticv debunker here?
We have several anti-semitic truthers (and I suspect you are one of them, for you make excuses for holocaust deniers etc) here on ISF. We had "notconvinced" raise his ugly anti-semtitic head in this very thread. That's two out of only four truthers to post in this thread, while none of the almost 40 "debunkers" who posted here seem to be anti-semitic.
You may recall my "roll-call" thread, where I asked, years ago, what people here currently believe is the best narrative for the events of 9/11. Many debunkers chimed in and told full accounts of the day's events. A few truthers also chimed in, but there was only one (1) who dared write down a full account of the day's events - nickname was "9/11 Investigator", and he was a nauseating anti-semite (he has been banned in the meantime) - his full theory was essentially a story of "Jews are out to get us everywhere and always".

 

[Navigator]

The Science speaks the reality.

"anti-semitism" - there is more to it than racism. It is about a particular race which is thought of as seeing itself as more special than any other race.

Science has this to say about human beings and race.

theguardian.com

So with that established, the 'more special' bit must have something to do with thoughts and behavior rather than dna/genetics.

This idea has been with the unfolding human drama for a long time now - perpetuated in the stories of this 'people' and well and truly integrated into the belief systems of East, West, North and South - the 'natives' see it as some kind of threatening intrusion instigated by a god-being who has chosen the Jews to carry out a takeover of all the worlds affairs...and are edgy beyond reason - dangerous for that.

Whether the idea actually has merit or not, is difficult to ascertain... but certainly events have shaped the course of history so that the word of the prophetic utterances have prevailed thus far, and it is interesting for that.

It would be good to finally see the beast tamed.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

If you dislike the Jewish American ones because they're Jews, you're antisemitic. If you dislike the whole lot of the American ones, Jews or Gentiles, because they're Americans, you're anti American.

What if one simply dislikes Israel-the-nationstate's policies regarding the Palestinians?

 

[pgimeno]

No, they're not. They're role-playing.

You've nailed it.

 

[Criteria]

”Suspicions about 9/11 involvement by governing bodies whose citizenry are mostly semitic, does not make one anti-semitic.

I highly dislike many members here who happen to be Americans. Does that make me anti-American?”

”If you dislike the Jewish American ones because they're Jews, you're antisemitic.

If you dislike the whole lot of the American ones, Jews or Gentiles, because they're Americans, you're anti American.”

”What if one simply dislikes Israel-the-nationstate's policies regarding the Palestinians?”

That is getting to the nub of the problem.

Israel is a sacred cow.

People who question Israel’s behaviour are immediately castigated for being hate-mongers, anti-semites, and Holocaust-deniers.

Anti-semitism. What a stupid reason to dislike other human beings. Not because they present a threat, but because of an abeyance to a religious-based historical habit.

Unless it can be shown that the 9/11 TM is habitually comprised of members who are ardently religious and/or poorly educated, I would say that the claim of “anti-semitism” is just a ploy to keep Israel out of the conversation.

 

[Mark F]

'Truthers' are people looking for answers to important unanswered questions about 9/11.

Could be true. I have not actually encountered a genuine "Truther" in a very long time. The species, once common may be extinct.

Anti-semitism is a condition found in a closed-mind.

And such persons dominate the so-called "Truther" community today. Like I said I have not encountered a genuine Truther in a quite a while. Closed-minded individuals who peddle woo and nonsense about 9/11 and Jews are not hard to find.

Israel is a sacred cow.

People who question Israel’s behaviour are immediately castigated for being hate-mongers, anti-semites, and Holocaust-deniers.

There is either a very deliberate level of denial going on here or you just don't get it. There are no genuine Truthers left, just deniers and those deniers - many of them anyway - are fueled by a deep-seated hatred of Jews which distorts their worldview. They start with blame the Jews.

This isn't a Chicken-and-Egg thing. We know which comes first.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

That is getting to the nub of the problem.

Israel is a sacred cow.

People who question Israel’s behaviour are immediately castigated for being hate-mongers, anti-semites, and Holocaust-deniers.

OK, let's test that proposition.
I condemn Israel's policy of continuing settlement construction in areas considered by the international community to be Palestinian. It is not conducive to the peace process, and represents a land-grab that is tantamount to imperialism.

I await my immediate castigation with an almost Catholic sense of anticipation.