Split Thread Signs of the End Times

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Assume for the moment that the god of the Bible is real and the Bible is his revealed word. (Please, bear with me here)

Here we have a man claming perfect understanding of that book who, regardless, makes prophesies that always fail, mocks all scholars, mocks anyone who asks for clarification, stomps away in a fit when too many people call him on dodging the questions and displays a profound, even comical, lack of understanding about the actual content of the bible.

Is he, in the context of a Bible actually provided by a universal creator, more likely to be an actual prophet of that deity or a false prophet being led to Hell by a singularly inept demon?

I ask in part because I'm trying to decide if I'm going to have an overt supernatural element to the story I'm writing, if I'll leave it implied and hinted or just scrap the supernatural component all together. As tempting as it is to have Pauwel Jansen engage in a religious debate with someone who stands up to him intelligently and articulately that runs the risk of a Mary Sue moment.

Leave the "supernatural" hinted at...even celebrate the ambiguity between what the character may (or may not) believe, and what can be demonstrated to be...IOW, subvert the trope.
 
Yes I did make predictions that did not materialise—but that caused me to re-examine my situation...

Did it cause you to realize you were not infallible, as you claimed to be?

This confirmed the fact that what I believed was in line with the revealed word of God.

So you can't cite chapter-and-verse the passages you say you had neglected when predicting wilted grass and other things? Every time we ask you this you just make vague, handwaving references to the "revealed word of God" without giving any specifics.

So the next prediction will be in line with the timing of God—which I will announce at the proper time.

But you already did.

You told us that this was the Hebrew year 5777. You told us this was significant because seven was a special number in the pharisaical tradition. This year having three of those numerals in it made it very significant, and that some event pertinent to the end times would occur in it.

But when pressed for details you denied everything, even that you had made any sort of numerology case. Apparently you haven't worked out that infallibility thing yet.

Your act is improving though. You realized you had made a testable claim in time to try to back away from it. It shows improvement in being able to read your audience. Maybe if you keep practicing you can be the sort of evangelist you apparently want to be.

So as I said I will be taking a break from the Forum—enjoy yourself without me, though I know it is not the same.

Well, here we are again. You assiduously avoided the scene of your spiritual depantsing, the Mizvot thread. Once again here, as you did there, you tried to make it sound like your egregious factual error was just a variant interpretation. But you see the question was never formulated like that. The question always was, "What does the actual text say?" And you got it wrong. You're trying so very hard to save face and sidestep your error. But you cannot. It is an error of fact that you cannot sweep under the carpet.

And so you're running away again. You cannot outrun your past. Every time you visit this forum, your past sins will be there to haunt you. We do not forget.
 
I did say I will take a break from the Forum—but I would like to respond to your post.

Yes I did make predictions that did not materialise—but that caused me to re-examine my situation, it did not make me lose hope but rather to check out what I believed—this resulted in me gaining a better insight into the method that Yahweh uses.

This confirmed the fact that what I believed was in line with the revealed word of God. So the predictions are not outside of the realm that can be used, but at a later stage.

So the next prediction will be in line with the timing of God—which I will announce at the proper time.

So as I said I will be taking a break from the Forum—enjoy yourself without me, though I know it is not the same.

I do hope that you use this break to have your sanity evaluated.
 
I am not imposing my standards, it is the Creator who created the universe who stipulates how people should conduct themselves in his creation. So you do not have the power to resist his will.

It would be quite funny when you come to see how wrong you are—funny but very sad, as your stance will result in you being terrified as is stated-- Is 13:8 Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labour. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame.

We are most certainly living in the period when the Creator will reveal himself through his power, so Mr Slowvehicle enjoy your aberration.

But all of you say this. There's nothing special about your message. There have been thousands of people like you. Your messages may change in the specifics but you all have something in common; you're wrong. Nothing you say ever happens. Why then do you feel that you can send this message when you can't show that you speak for anyone but yourself?
 
Yes I did make predictions that did not materialise—but that caused me to re-examine my situation, it did not make me lose hope but rather to check out what I believed—this resulted in me gaining a better insight into the method that Yahweh uses.

.

No, it just showed that you only speak for yourself.
 
in the meantime I will concentrate on more important matters pertaining to my passion.

Obsession and passion are not quite the same thing. In this thread, however, you have conflated them, and be it noted, to no constructive end. 81 pages of trying to push a dead horse across a non-existent finish line . . . . . . .
 
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Assume for the moment that the god of the Bible is real and the Bible is his revealed word. (Please, bear with me here)

Here we have a man claming perfect understanding of that book who, regardless, makes prophesies that always fail, mocks all scholars, mocks anyone who asks for clarification, stomps away in a fit when too many people call him on dodging the questions and displays a profound, even comical, lack of understanding about the actual content of the bible.

Is he, in the context of a Bible actually provided by a universal creator, more likely to be an actual prophet of that deity or a false prophet being led to Hell by a singularly inept demon?

I ask in part because I'm trying to decide if I'm going to have an overt supernatural element to the story I'm writing, if I'll leave it implied and hinted or just scrap the supernatural component all together. As tempting as it is to have Pauwel Jansen engage in a religious debate with someone who stands up to him intelligently and articulately that runs the risk of a Mary Sue moment.

Leave the "supernatural" hinted at...even celebrate the ambiguity between what the character may (or may not) believe, and what can be demonstrated to be...IOW, subvert the trope.


As Slowvehicle suggests, an ambiguous authorial stance with regard to any "supernatural" elements would keep the subject of your story in the focal distance region away from the reader's reality, so that his subjective reality would remain as his psychological demesne, which is the demesne of his story, after all. Bringing that psychological manifestation "out" into the real world would puncture his inflated persona, and flatten the story.

In other words, allow the reader to experience his confusion, without giving your subject character any credence through validating his delusional world. That way you don't force the reader into the suspension of disbelief which we would have to build (like a gallows for the human tragedy of his predicament, to entertain a momentary conceit, ha ha!), draining our engagement with the story into the side effort of changing our attention away from the man and onto the realisation "oh, this is a fantasy story".

His subjective experiences can be described from his point of view, but never validated by you, the author, so that the character is a sort of "unreliable narrator", into whose delusional reality the reader can be drawn without conflicting the reader's actual experience.

(As an aside, about the use of words in writing, in that last phrase I left out the "with" that maybe should properly follow "conflicting", because I wanted to imply that the "reader" I refer to there would be inappropriately disturbed, knocking him out of the story, rather than the more passive description of your story being at odds with the reader's experience of the world, which would be the flat result of inserting "with" there. I put this paragraph in because I'm not sure my use here was strictly correct in grammatical terms. But writing is not about grammar, it's about poetic effect, and affect.)


As I have stated I have responded to over 900 post—I do not relish the Idea of sitting in front of the computer responding to all the post—some are very good and some are ridiculous.

It is time consuming, and although it keeps me thinking, I believe I have extracted all the helpful responses from the posts.


No response at all to my reference to and discussion of the nature of loving kindness. Just a legalistic and uninspired threat about subjugation to the god.

Are you incapable of responding to actual love? What a bad advert for your god! You say you have been doing this for years. Unswerving moralistic dumping and thumping, which you arrogantly assume is "doing the lord's work"? Sad. Simplistic. Dull. Unattractive. Failure.

I am not running away—and will at times respond to a few posts that are interesting—in the meantime I will concentrate on more important matters pertaining to my passion.

Obsession and passion are not quite the same thing. In this thread, however, you have conflated them, and be it noted, to no constructive end. 81 pages of trying to push a dead horse across a non-existent finish line . . . . . . .


As in "the passion of christ" I suppose he means… raising himself to the status of the christ in his own mind.

Just imagine the tiny hell this guy would find himself in, if the vengeful, hateful creator he envisions were real!

Perhaps in that alternate reality, the demons assigned to each of us would be exact replicas of ourselves!

Luckily "Paul Bethke" (does the real Bethke know of this abuse of his name?) lacks the imagination, let alone ability to reflect on himself, to entertain such doubts… luckily for him, that is, at the expense of the people around him.
 
But it seems that you have no clue to LOVE. To LOVE God means to obey his commands, so you must become familiar with his commands and then you will see what it entails!

No, that isn't what 'love' means. What you describe is obedience or submission, submission to the will of god.
Interestingly enough, there is a religion whose name translates as 'submission'.
It was started by a lone prophet, who believed that the Chirstian and Jewish churches of his day were not preaching the correct interpretation or meaning of god's message to the world. He also believed that he had a direct line to the actual words of god, and that it was his calling to reveal those words to mankind.
That religion is Islam.
Paul Bethke, during your break from the forum, you might want to consider whether you are adhering to the right religion.
 
Cosmic Yak
So post the indisputable truth the Bible says must exist. Stop playing around.

Bop
The book of the def leopard says we are fighting for the gods of war

CY
Assertion without evidence. How do you know the increase is far more widespread than before?

B
So what the hell we fighting for??

CY
Firstly, I was unaware that Revelation was the words of Jesus. My understanding was that it was composed about 80 years after the supposed death of Jesus, and was a series of prophecies written by an unknown author who had no contact with Jesus at all. I assume from your statement that you have evidence to the contrary, and I would appreciate it if you would post it.


B
We are fighting for the gods of war


CY
Secondly, which Christian church or churches are you accusing of eating food sacrificed to idols? Plus, of course, what evidence do you have for this?

B
we're fighting with the gods of war

CY
If you are equating Jezebel with modern churches, I would like to have some clarification on the adultery part of this. Otherwise, I have no idea what this mumbo-jumbo is supposed to mean, or how this constitutes proof that homosexuality is more widespread than before.

B
we're fighting for the gods of war

CY
No, as far as I am aware, Jesus (if he ever existed) did not say any of this, and I would like to see your evidence that he did.

B
take a ride on the hightmare machine!

CY
I am not repenting of anything unless and until you show me the indisputable evidence for your faith that you promised me. That was the deal. I also take umbrage to the idea that I have anything to repent of in the first place. Do you automatically assume that anyone who is not you is a sinner, because as far as I know, we have never met, and you know almost nothing about me. Someone, in some book I read, said 'judge not, lest ye be judged yourself'. Who was that, Paul Bethke? Do you agree with that sentiment? If so, why do you not apply it? If not, why do you continue to preach something you do not believe in?

B
heavy.....


the gospel according to the book of the hearing impaired feline....

The holy book of the Def Leopard.....

:confused:
Does anybody have any idea what this is all about?
 
:confused:
Does anybody have any idea what this is all about?



Def Leppard was a heavy metal rock band that started in the late 70s or maybe early 80s.

Lyrics in heavy metal are often about things like "gods of war" and other semi-mythical fantasies. I presume the poster is throwing in such allusions to put Bethke's allusions into the same frame of illusions as the heavy metal mixing and matching, patching and filching his way to the Elysian Fields of meaningless tosh.

:boxedin:
 
Def Leppard was a heavy metal rock band that started in the late 70s or maybe early 80s.

Lyrics in heavy metal are often about things like "gods of war" and other semi-mythical fantasies. I presume the poster is throwing in such allusions to put Bethke's allusions into the same frame of illusions as the heavy metal mixing and matching, patching and filching his way to the Elysian Fields of meaningless tosh.

:boxedin:

I have always regarded you as one of my favourite and most respected posters.
However, for you to claim the Def Leppard was a heavy metal band is an outrage and an insult to heavy metal. You have fallen in my estimation, sir.

While I have a kind of guilty pleasure thing going with them, Def Leppard were poodle rock- lycra and big hair. Nowhere near deserving of the epithet 'heavy metal'.

Anyway, I knew this already. I'm a child of the 80's, and a fan of rock. My puzzlement arose from the dialogue between my posts and the spirit of Def Leppard. I couldn't work out whether it was me being criticised, or Paul Bethke.
 
I have always regarded you as one of my favourite and most respected posters.
However, for you to claim the Def Leppard was a heavy metal band is an outrage and an insult to heavy metal. You have fallen in my estimation, sir.

While I have a kind of guilty pleasure thing going with them, Def Leppard were poodle rock- lycra and big hair. Nowhere near deserving of the epithet 'heavy metal'.

Anyway, I knew this already. I'm a child of the 80's, and a fan of rock. My puzzlement arose from the dialogue between my posts and the spirit of Def Leppard. I couldn't work out whether it was me being criticised, or Paul Bethke.



Oops! :o

I have never actually listened to Def Leppard, but since they arose around the time of the Second Wave of British Heavy Metal (or was it the Third?!) I always assumed they were part of it, since their name was an obvious rip off of Led Zeppelin (or so I assumed, again!).

Frankly I got bored quickly with the Second Wave bands, and was always more into psychedelic rockers like Steve Hillage, and Gong, and Hawkwind, after getting my start in the 60s with Zeppelin and Hendrix etc (I hesitate to drop an "etc" straight after Hendrix! But you know what I mean…)

I'm into modern electronic dance music this last two decades, loving live dancing to big sound systems pumping out the energy of Psytrance! Surrounded by fluffy crowds of lovely psychedelic young people, glowing in the dark! ;):p

Anyway, thanks for your comment. :blush: Always nice to know you're appreciated!

As to the rest of your confusion, I can't help you there. I found myself skating over the surface of that post like an aquaplaning car failing to find grip with the roadway.
 
No, that isn't what 'love' means. What you describe is obedience or submission, submission to the will of god.
Interestingly enough, there is a religion whose name translates as 'submission'.
It was started by a lone prophet, who believed that the Chirstian and Jewish churches of his day were not preaching the correct interpretation or meaning of god's message to the world. He also believed that he had a direct line to the actual words of god, and that it was his calling to reveal those words to mankind.
That religion is Islam.
Paul Bethke, during your break from the forum, you might want to consider whether you are adhering to the right religion.

No you have it all wrong—love is a verb, so to love someone is not to sin against that person, so the commands of the Creator give us insight into “what not to do to our neighbour”

Jesus reiterated what was in the Torah—Lev 19:18 "'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbour as yourself. I am the LORD.

Mat 22:36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment.And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbour as yourself.'[/b\

James_2:8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbour as yourself," you are doing right.

The Apostle Paul outlines what the meaning of LOVE is--1Cor 13:3-8 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

Then this is love for a spouse --Eph_5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
Eph_5:28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

To love means –not to lie to someone—not to steal –not to commit adultery—not to injure.
Lev_19:16 "'Do not go about spreading slander among your people. "'Do not do anything that endangers your neighbours’ life. I AM the LORD.

So love is a practical action—so when we LOVE God we adhere to these teachings.
 
No you have it all wrong—love is a verb, so to love someone is not to sin against that person,

WOW. That ********** up line is a juicy insight into your thought processes. I'll have to remember to have Pauwel Jansen use it in my story. He's already shaping up as a narcissist (Kinda mandatory with the self-proclaimed prophets). I was already going to have him berating his wife and daughter for being "evil" when they disobey him, but claiming it's proof that that don't love him if they disobey, thus "sinning" against him, will really drive home just how twisted he is.

The best part in narrative terms is that the behavior is just a religious spin on stereotypical narcissist emotional blackmail. Anyone with real-world experience with a narcissist should feel the scene rings "true."
 
No you have it all wrong—love is a verb, so to love someone is not to sin against that person, so the commands of the Creator give us insight into “what not to do to our neighbour”

Jesus reiterated what was in the Torah—Lev 19:18 "'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbour as yourself. I am the LORD.

Like you love your black neighbours, Paul Bethke?

James_2:8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbour as yourself," you are doing right.

Was it out of love that you threatened to blind James Randi?
Was it love that made you say this:
Paul Bethke said:
It would be quite funny when you come to see how wrong you are—funny but very sad, as your stance will result in you being terrified as is stated-- Is 13:8 Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labour. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame.

Because that sits rather uneasily with this:
Love does not delight in evil


I would say delighting in the terror, pain and anguish of others is evil. How about you?

But where there are prophecies, they will cease;

Do you realise what you just posted?
 
Jesus reiterated what was in the Torah—Lev 19:18 "'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbour as yourself. I am the LORD.

Because holding a grudge is Yahweh's thing. Not only will you suffer, but so will your children, etc. Yahweh hates it when you're working his side of the street.
 
Like you love your black neighbours, Paul Bethke?
Love for my black neighbours as you say, would be to warn them of the error of theirs ways, in trying to communicate with the dead, a thing that Yahweh hates. Love is to bring the truth to the attention of those who need to repent—not to warn people of hell is a sin.
Was it out of love that you threatened to blind James Randi?
Most definitely—that would have resulted in him having to re access his stance.
Was it love that made you say this:
To warn people of the outcome of coming in contact with the Presence of a holy God—will result in such anguish.
Because that sits rather uneasily with this:
I would say delighting in the terror, pain and anguish of others is evil. How about you?
Do you realise what you just posted?

I do not delight as you say-- delight in the terror, pain and anguish of others is evil.
Jesus used the same language to demonstrate what will be the outcome of those who do not repent.
Luke_16:23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
Mar_9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out,

Informing people of what awaits them if they do not repent is love for that person—not informing people is hatred.

When the Kingdom of God is established there will be no need for prophecies.
 
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