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Hillary Clinton is Done: part 3

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varwoche said:
Despite that your post is a goofy non sequitur JAQ off, in response to this part...

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"My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere."

We don’t have more context about what Clinton meant by "open borders" because she has not released the full speech.

I rate Politifact totally full of ****. She refuses to release the full speech, and the morons at Politifact accept her sleazy handlers words for it?

They must think we are idiots. We are not, they are.
 
The Big Dog said:
Huh, where does Hillary saying she wants open borders and a hemispheric common market fit in? She wants good American jobs? South American jobs I presume.
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In case you were wondering, we all saw you ignore the point of this post , refus to defend your position , and quickly try to change the subject....
 
The Big Dog said:
"My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere."

We don’t have more context about what Clinton meant by "open borders" because she has not released the full speech.

I rate Politifact totally full of ****. She refuses to release the full speech, and the morons at Politifact accept her sleazy handlers words for it?

They must think we are idiots. We are not, they are.
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I haven't hung on every word of the Wikileaks "bombshells", but I keep wondering exactly what it is that is supposed to shock us with quotes like this one.

I, for one, share Hillary's dream, but that doesn't mean that if I were President I would submit legislation tomorrow that allowed free movement across borders of either people or goods. It would be nice to do that, but if we simply passed legislation opening up the only borders we have control over, namely our own, and dismantled the only trade barriers we have control over, namely our own, it would be a disaster. I'm pretty sure Hillary knows that, and even if she didn't, the Congress knows that. The idea that she believes it doesn't upset me at all. The idea that she might push it as an agenda doesn't leave me quaking in my boots.

Those words might be a bombshell to people who are xenophobic isolationists, but those people are all voting for Trump already.

If this is the thing Republicans are hoping finally results in her being "done", I would recommend not breaking out the (California) champagne just yet.
 
On other "bombshells" from the leaks, we have proof positive that what she says in her stump speeches isn't always what's in her heart, and we have a strong indication that as someone holding public office (Senator, President, Secretary of State, whatever) she might vote for or support policies for reasons of political expediency rather than what she truly believes.

Shocked, I tell you. I am shocked.

I'll even grant that as far as being two-faced and finger in the wind, she's worse than the average politician, in my opinion. Oh, well. That's a negative, but a small one. I'm not worried that such a person might become President, because a whole lot of such people have already been President, and we've done ok despite all of it.
 
MikeG said:
Now, I wonder why that could be?

Because this crap exists only in the febrile imagination of the lunatic fringe.
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There is no smoke without fire. This matter of the Clintons body count - Clinton friends who've ended up dead should have been discussed in the debates:

https://www.truthorfiction.com/clintonfriends/

There is a difference between being anti-semitic and criticism of Israel with all those Israeli endless negotiations and endless wars and Israeli expansion. I don't agree with the Israeli Education Minister. I was happier when Rabin was in control. That's why the British Labour Party finds it difficult to be politically correct about this matter. I'm not a Holocaust denier. I think those concentration camps were appalling. I'm glad Hitler didn't win the war but it was a close run thing at times.
 
Meadmaker said:
On other "bombshells" from the leaks, we have proof positive that what she says in her stump speeches isn't always what's in her heart, and we have a strong indication that as someone holding public office (Senator, President, Secretary of State, whatever) she might vote for or support policies for reasons of political expediency rather than what she truly believes.

Shocked, I tell you. I am shocked.

I'll even grant that as far as being two-faced and finger in the wind, she's worse than the average politician, in my opinion. Oh, well. That's a negative, but a small one. I'm not worried that such a person might become President, because a whole lot of such people have already been President, and we've done ok despite all of it.
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How dare a politician vote based on the desires of the people instead of their own personal preference?
 
Henri McPhee said:
There is no smoke without fire. This matter of the Clintons body count - Clinton friends who've ended up dead should have been discussed in the debates:

https://www.truthorfiction.com/clintonfriends/

There is a difference between being anti-semitic and criticism of Israel with all those Israeli endless negotiations and endless wars and Israeli expansion. I don't agree with the Israeli Education Minister. I was happier when Rabin was in control. That's why the British Labour Party finds it difficult to be politically correct about this matter. I'm not a Holocaust denier. I think those concentration camps were appalling. I'm glad Hitler didn't win the war but it was a close run thing at times.
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There is - I refer you to Kyoon's threads
 
The Big Dog said:
That is a fine start! Read those comments and then go back and watch her sneering hypocrisy in her My Did was Drape Hanger speech (which in and of itself was grossly misleading).

Phony populism is pathetic. Great place to start: Hillary is a complete fake.
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"My Did Was Drape Hanger"? I searched on "drape" and "hanger" but no joy.

Whatever it was, when you hear it in a "sneering" tone of voice that's because you have been conditioned to do so.

“I'm Kind Of Far Removed” From The Struggles Of The Middle Class “Because The Life I've Lived And The Economic, You Know, Fortunes That My Husband And I Now Enjoy.”
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She's not pretending to live an ordinary life these days. What do you find objectionable in that? It's not as if she's claiming to be at one with the common citizen. She was once, being from a middle-class Middle American family. No hypocrisy that I can see, not sneering for that matter.

It would be hypocritical to claim to be a self-made woman of the people when having actually had a privileged upbringing and inheriting a very large fortune from her father.

“And I am not taking a position on any policy ..."
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applies only to what immediately follows, of course

... but I do think there is a growing sense of anxiety and even anger in the country over the feeling that the game is rigged.
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Empathy. It's a good thing in a politician.

And I never had that feeling when I was growing up. Never. I mean, were there really rich people, of course there were. My father loved to complain about big business and big government, but we had a solid middle class upbringing. We had good public schools. We had accessible health care. We had our little, you know, one-family house that, you know, he saved up his money, didn't believe in mortgages. So I lived that.
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I know just what she means. I'm of Clinton's generation and that's what many of us experienced in the West. An expanding and increasingly prosperous middle-class with improving living standards throughout society (even the rich). That all turned around in 1979-80 with the Thatcher-Reagan revolution and the Rise of the Rich. Since then the middle-class has been hollowed-out and the survivors have seen all the benefits of economic growth go to the richest, from which it has not trickled down.

And now, obviously, I'm kind of far removed because the life I've lived and the economic, you know, fortunes that my husband and I now enjoy, but I haven't forgotten it.”
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Neither have I. Like Clinton I'd like it to come back; unlike Clinton I can't have much impact. Clinton can make a start - consider her tax policy, for instance. It doesn't concentrate on the "burdens" of the rich as tax policy generally has for the last thrity-five years, with disastrous consequences for the public weal.

That, of course, is why Western society has more billionaires than ever and yet is less satisfied with its lot than it has been since WW2. Trump claims - with egregious hypocrisy - that he feels its pain and will put himself out to help them. Once he's sorted out the dreadful tax burden of the rich, of course. One has to have priorities in government.
 
pgwenthold said:
How dare a politician vote based on the desires of the people instead of their own personal preference?
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Hardly surprising... yet there are people who expect their politicians to vote on their principals and vote for them presumably because she actually represents those ideologies. And then they're disappointed when she has closet views that are the opposite. From a logic standpoint it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to do, but it's in large part one of the character traits of politicians in the abstract that has cause people to go for populist candidates this cycle.
 
The email I'm working from https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/927 is far from ideal for the task, but then it wasn't composed with the expectation that it criminals would hack it and pass it on to an organisation well-known for its antipathy to the US and, in particular, Hillary Clinton for said organisation to release as being just the sort of thing which could be twisted to Clinton's detriment.

Headings such as "Clinton Admits She Is Out Of Touch" are not the interpretations of the author, they are projected misrepresentations by the opposition. Just thought I'd point that out.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
Hardly surprising... yet there are people who expect their politicians to vote on their principals and vote for them presumably because she actually represents those ideologies. And then they're disappointed when she has closet views that are the opposite. From a logic standpoint it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to do, but it's in large part one of the character traits of politicians in the abstract that has cause people to go for populist candidates this cycle.
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Hopefully Trump has been a lesson for people, like making a kid caught smoking finish the whole packet to put them off for life. Ah, who am I kidding.
 
CapelDodger said:
The email I'm working from https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/927 is far from ideal for the task, but then it wasn't composed with the expectation that it criminals would hack it and pass it on to an organisation well-known for its antipathy to the US and, in particular, Hillary Clinton for said organisation to release as being just the sort of thing which could be twisted to Clinton's detriment.

Headings such as "Clinton Admits She Is Out Of Touch" are not the interpretations of the author, they are projected misrepresentations by the opposition. Just thought I'd point that out.
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Thanks for pointing out something you just made up.
 
Henri McPhee said:
There is no smoke without fire. This matter of the Clintons body count - Clinton friends who've ended up dead should have been discussed in the debates:
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:rolleyes::eye-poppi

Wrong again. I can show you countless examples where there is lots of smoke and no fire. Check out some of the longest running threads on ISF; the Amanda Knox wrongful prosecution. The 911 Truthers, the Birthers, the JFK assassination. I could go on and on.

No it shouldn't have been. Just as they shouldn't have discussed whether the moon landings were faked, UFOs at Roswell or that Oswald didn't shoot JFK. Just because some nutjobs have a dumb theory doesn't make it reasonable to be part of a Presidential debate.
 
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