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Gable Tostee

banquetbear said:
...of course its an "honest question." Please don't question my integrity. Those bits I'm leaving out (ignoring of course the possibility that Tostee was "making stuff up for the recording") are relevant to whether or not Tostee should have let Warriena stay in the apartment, but are not relevant to Tostee's decision to detain Warriena.

So my question again:

If someone purposefully locked you on a balcony, and when you said to that person "Just let me go home. Just let me go home. Just let me go home. Just let me go home" and that person refused to open the door and let you go home, would you consider you were being wrongfully detained? A yes or no answer will suffice.
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Umm if someone is destroying your property and attacking you, that is 100% relevant to any subsequent decision you make to detain them.
 
Ben1985 said:
Umm if someone is destroying your property and attacking you, that is 100% relevant to any subsequent decision you make to detain them.
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...no it isn't relevant. You just don't want to answer the question. And it was clear from the start you were never going to answer the question: because even though you claim "you are not biased" it is completely obvious that you are. If you could push past your biases then answering the question would not be a problem.

The question is not from the "point of view" of the "detainer." It is from the point of view of the "detainee." The question is not about a decision to "detain someone else." It is from the point of view of the "person who has been detained."

You can keep on dodging: but it won't work with me.

If someone purposefully locked you on a balcony, and when you said to that person "Just let me go home. Just let me go home. Just let me go home. Just let me go home" and that person refused to open the door and let you go home, would you consider you were being wrongfully detained? A yes or no answer will suffice. It isn't a hard question. It requires a simple yes or no.
 
Of choose it is relevant, just because the wrongfulness of detention is from the point of view of the detainee doesn't mean that the detainee's actions have no bearing on whether it is reasonable for them to be detained.

So for the last time, if I turned up to a stranger's house, got drunk, started smashing their property assaulted them and was subsequently locked up on a balcony, would I want to be let out? Yes. Would a sober, reasonably minded version of myself consider my detention to be wrongful? Not always.
 
Ben1985 said:
It's not an honest question though, because again you're leaving out the part where I was wildly drunk, damaging his property and assaulting him before he locked me outside. In a lot of circumstances, I wouldn't consider that to amount to wrongful detention.
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Christ. Why didn't he throw her out the front door and/or call the cops? This criminal act of him will see a conviction.
 
Ben1985 said:
Of choose it is relevant, just because the wrongfulness of detention is from the point of view of the detainee doesn't mean that the detainee's actions have no bearing on whether it is reasonable for them to be detained.

So for the last time, if I turned up to a stranger's house, got drunk, started smashing their property assaulted them and was subsequently locked up on a balcony, would I want to be let out? Yes. Would a sober, reasonably minded version of myself consider my detention to be wrongful? Not always.
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She didn't turn up. She was invited up. She wasn't a stranger in the sense you are trying to convey.

Tostee had choices. He made the criminal one and will suffer the consequences.
 
Ben1985 said:
Of choose it is relevant, just because the wrongfulness of detention is from the point of view of the detainee doesn't mean that the detainee's actions have no bearing on whether it is reasonable for them to be detained.
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...of course it isn't relevant. My question was extremely specific. It was from the POV of detainee, not the detainer. All "reasonableness" went out the window when Tostee detained Warriena and then did not immediately contact the police.

So for the last time, if I turned up to a stranger's house, got drunk, started smashing their property assaulted them and was subsequently locked up on a balcony, would I want to be let out? Yes. Would a sober, reasonably minded version of myself consider my detention to be wrongful? Not always.
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I'll take that as a "YES." The rest of the qualifiers you have added are unnecessary: it was after all a yes or no question.
 
banquetbear said:
of course it isn't relevant. My question was extremely specific.

I'll take that as a "YES." The rest of the qualifiers you have added are unnecessary: it was after all a yes or no question.
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In what way was that a "yes"?

Oh and for the record reasonableness does not go out the window because Tostee didn't call the police in the literal 20 seconds between when he locked the balcony door and Wright fell to her death.
 
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Ben1985 said:
It's not an honest question though, because again you're leaving out the part where I was wildly drunk, damaging his property and assaulting him before he locked me outside. In a lot of circumstances, I wouldn't consider that to amount to wrongful detention.
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Then he should have called the police. Which he didn't remember? Until after the girl was dead, the police notified by others and he'd called his lawyer and father.

If you;re suggesting that Tostee was performing some variant of 'citizens arrest' then there's an obligation to summon the police there too.
 
Ben1985 said:
Oh and for the record reasonableness does not go out the window because Tostee didn't call the police in the literal 20 seconds between when he locked the balcony door and Wright fell to her death.
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...for a person so concerned with "leaving parts out" you seemed to conveniently forget the part where after Wright fell: Tostee decided NOT TO CALL THE POLICE but instead WENT TO EAT PIZZA. That decision was not reasonable at all.
 
Ben1985 said:
In what way was that a "yes"?

Oh and for the record reasonableness does not go out the window because Tostee didn't call the police in the literal 20 seconds between when he locked the balcony door and Wright fell to her death.
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Tostee's culpability started with his decision to lock Wright out and put her in fear of her life. That's enough for a conviction.

Mind you, I think he will probably get a lenient sentence of less than 10 years.
 
Ben1985 said:
Oh so we're back to eating pizza as evidence of guilt again are we?
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Evidence of cold bloodedness perhaps.

Evidence of stupid, thoughtless behaviour when he didn't even know if Wright was dead or not.

Evidence that he is a narcissistic dick.

Not evidence of murder. His earlier action of locking her on the balcony, threatening her and putting her in fear of her life is enough.
 
Ben1985 said:
Oh so we're back to eating pizza as evidence of guilt again are we?
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...strawman. That was not what I said.

What we are back to though was "did you mean yes or no?" in answer to my very simple question.

But since we are back to the topic of Pizza: according to you 20 seconds after Tostee closed the door to the balcony Wright fell to her death. Was the decision to go get pizza a reasonable one, considering the circumstances? Yes or no.
 
banquetbear said:
...strawman. That was not what I said.

What we are back to though was "did you mean yes or no?" in answer to my very simple question.

But since we are back to the topic of Pizza: according to you 20 seconds after Tostee closed the door to the balcony Wright fell to her death. Was the decision to go get pizza a reasonable one, considering the circumstances? Yes or no.
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No. He should definitely be held liable for wrongfully eating pizza
 
Ben1985 said:
No.
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...see? That wasn't so hard. Once again: the qualifier isn't required.

Now: did you mean yes or no to this question again? I thought you meant "yes": but you bristled when I said this, so did you mean no?

If someone purposefully locked you on a balcony, and when you said to that person "Just let me go home. Just let me go home. Just let me go home. Just let me go home" and that person refused to open the door and let you go home, would you consider you were being wrongfully detained? A yes or no answer will suffice.
 
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