2016 Presidential Debate II

[varwoche]

I'm sorry, I'm not caught up but has anyone brought up his comment, "I don't know anything about Russia"? That was a startling admission!

It got me thinking - why does Russia want Trump to win? There are probably lots of reasons, but I'm curious about Russia's strategic goals.

The possibilities are many, starting with the obvious: Ukraine and Syria.

In the intelligence business, we would say that Mr. Putin had recruited Mr. Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation link

It's unfortunate that Trump+Putin isn't given the media attention it deserves.

 

[Minoosh]

Well Donald surely promised to pay them. Knowing him through, he may stiff them.

Nah, none of them is attractive enough for him. He might not pay them, though.

 

[Minoosh]

The evidence could not have been useful for DNA testing because such technology wouldn't exist for another 10 or 15 years. It was only useful for proving that sexual intercourse had taken place. And, on that point, there wasn't any doubt anyway.

There is older technology regarding "secretors" whose semen allows investigators to find a person's blood type. So that narrows things down. About 85 percent of the population are secretors whose blood can be typed from semen. If semen did not contain the antibodies, that would also significantly narrow the field.

I didn't think they were as bad as other liberal fact-checking sites, but in this case, they may even be worse.

Can you recommend a conservative fact-checking site?

 

[varwoche]

Maybe the most disturbing thing uttered by this Mussolini wannabe was his threat to jail Clinton.

Add that to his lurking, physical presentation and it painted a nightmarish picture (from a B movie).

 

[phiwum]

All the more reason for those who do care and do know to speak up, wouldn't you say? These people may not care, but others may simply be ignorant, and allowing those who don't care to drive the narrative should be unacceptable.

I'm honestly surprised to see someone who tries very hard to be reasonable say something so unreasonable.

No, no, I agree with you that one ought to speak up and support the notion of public defenders doing their best, even for persons accused of quite horrific crimes.

I was just saying that I understand the victim not getting that nuance. (I also said Trump supporters wouldn't get that nuance, but I didn't mean to excuse them.)

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Maybe the most disturbing thing uttered by this Mussolini wannabe was his threat to jail Clinton.

Add that to his lurking, physical presentation and it painted a nightmarish picture (from a B movie).

Something he is now doubling down on.

At a Trump rally outside Pittsburgh Monday afternoon, the crowd erupted in chants of "Lock her up! Lock her up!" That prompted the the GOP nominee to repeat his pledge to name a special investigator to probe Clinton. "Special prosecutor, here we come, right? If I win, we're going to appoint a special prosecutor," Trump declared.

Apparently those that know the law are a little aghast at his antics.....

 

[Minoosh]

Am I the only one who thought Trump looked genuinely bummed at the beginning of the debate?

Definitely noticeable to me.

As I watched I found the whole event strangely beautiful, with the movement, body language and juxtapositions. The citizens right there, the inquisitors, the chairs that seemed like props to pace around. It put me in mind of experimental theater or perhaps a Greek tragedy. I actually teared up at the end when they had to compliment each other. I don't think Hillary was slighting him by citing his family; I thought she was saying that he must have something good going on - besides money - to command such loyalty. I actually teared up at the sincerity with which he praised Hillary's tenacity. For a moment I thought maybe something good could be salvaged from this awful election cycle.

A couple of random points that might annoy people, but I make odd connections:
1. Are we really being fair to douchebags when we use the term as an insult? As much as I love the phrase "Il Douche," I wonder why a feminine hygiene product ended up as a slur.

2. The use of the term "sexual assault" can be problematic. In my state it is a synonym for rape and it involves penetration. Grabbing a woman's pudendum I would be more likely to classify as "sexual abuse." However this is largely because as a newspaper reporter/editor I was sensitive to using legal terms correctly.

One other thing: "Scumbag" means used condom, and the paper's "slot man" - last eyes on copy - would not allow it in print. Same with "snafu." And probably he wouldn't be too crazy about "douche" either.

 

[PhantomWolf]

No, no, I agree with you that one ought to speak up and support the notion of public defenders doing their best, even for persons accused of quite horrific crimes.

I was just saying that I understand the victim not getting that nuance. (I also said Trump supporters wouldn't get that nuance, but I didn't mean to excuse them.)

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Actually, looking at that case I'm not sure that she did do her best for her client, she got him to take a plea deal when I think that the way the case was falling apart, she could have taken it to court, eviscerated the girl on the stand, and gotten her client found not guilty.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Something he is now doubling down on.

After his surrogates spent all day assuring the media that it was just a quip..........

He must really pay them well, because their job sucks.

 

[CapelDodger]

...which would be ironic, because it's the biggest example of Trump saying something innocuous and his opponents going bonko over a pretense that it meant something else completely unrelated. They know perfectly well that telling someone (s)he's committed crimes and should get the normal consequences of those crimes is not the same thing as saying you'll have your opponents arrested just for opposing you as soon as you're elected Dictator, but pretending they're the same thing is just fine with them because it lets them add to their list of anti-Trump slogans (as if the legitimate ones alone just weren't enough).

As you say, ironic. This is cheap and nasty dirt, but the Trump camp can hardly complain about that. I never feel obliged to play a cleaner game than an opponent.

The Russian complaint against the UN High Commissioner on Human Rights : they didn't bring Trump into it, the Commissioner did. The Russian complaint is about the naming of names, not just the general condemnation of demagoguery. Trump is being tarred with guilt by association - but again, not something the Trump camp can legitimately complain about.

 

[CapelDodger]

I'm sorry, I'm not caught up but has anyone brought up his comment, "I don't know anything about Russia"? That was a startling admission!

It got me thinking - why does Russia want Trump to win? There are probably lots of reasons, but I'm curious about Russia's strategic goals.

They would like to damage democracy's image - unmanaged democracy, that is. A Trump presidency would definitely do that.

 

[Minoosh]

At the beginning of the debate my viewing partner (and ex-husband) seemed very impressed by her steeliness - he said she was being genuine, or something like that. It's a different energy than when she's working hard to be charming. It was a glimpse maybe of why this woman could be an effective commander-in-chief. The part he was commenting on was discussion of the sex tape. She seemed dead serious, in contrast with the slightly airheaded affect she displays when she's trying to be likeable.

 

[Minoosh]

Actually, looking at that case I'm not sure that she did do her best for her client, she got him to take a plea deal when I think that the way the case was falling apart, she could have taken it to court, eviscerated the girl on the stand, and gotten her client found not guilty.

Really? Eviscerating a 12-year-old on the stand? Not a good tactic. It would have been stupendously risky.

 

[The Atheist]

I wonder why a feminine hygiene product ended up as a slur.

I'd guess because an early use of douches was by prostitutes, who would use them to flush out the deposits in the days before condoms. That well pre-dates the 1950s usage of making sure it smells nice for daddy when he gets home.

Il douche does have a little ironic twist given his comment about grabbing women by the pussy.

 

[Foolmewunz]

1. Are we really being fair to douchebags when we use the term as an insult? As much as I love the phrase "Il Douche," I wonder why a feminine hygiene product ended up as a slur.

Comedy relief. Some people are saying this really happened.

Donald tried to get a first hand look at Steve Wynn's new resort back in the late 90s, but wanted to catch them off guard so went in with no advance people or entourage. As he's sitting down, a drunk comes over and slobberingly and loudly says "Hey, douche bag, how ya doing? Lemme buy you a drink."

The waiter interrupts the drunk and tries to get him to go back to his seat, but the guy keeps it up. "S'matta, my money not good? I said I wanna buy this douche bag a drink. You want a drink don't you buddy?" The waiter flags over the manager, who panics because he recognizes Trump so while waving over the bouncers, phones upstairs to Wynn's office to warn him that he better get there. "We've got an idiot drunk in here harassing Donal Goddamn Trump of all people. Just what you need during opening week."

Wynn comes in to the sounds of "But I jus' wanna buy that douchebag a drink. Why can't a guy buy a douchebag a drink?", as the drunk is being dragged out.

Steve goes over and says to his Maitre D', "Jacques. How did this happen? We don't allow anyone to treat our guests rudely. I expect you to be on top of this and offer Mister Trump our fullest apologies."

"Monsieur Trump??!! Alors! I am zo zorry. I was distracted for a moment and zis how you say, "riffle raffle" he slips into my lounge. Zis is horrible. We will make this up to you? Let me offer you a complimentary drink, s'il vous plait?"

"Well, thank you", says Trump, "I'll have a vinegar and water."

 

[acbytesla]

Definitely noticeable to me.

As I watched I found the whole event strangely beautiful, with the movement, body language and juxtapositions. The citizens right there, the inquisitors, the chairs that seemed like props to pace around. It put me in mind of experimental theater or perhaps a Greek tragedy. I actually teared up at the end when they had to compliment each other. I don't think Hillary was slighting him by citing his family; I thought she was saying that he must have something good going on - besides money - to command such loyalty. I actually teared up at the sincerity with which he praised Hillary's tenacity. For a moment I thought maybe something good could be salvaged from this awful election cycle.

A couple of random points that might annoy people, but I make odd connections:
1. Are we really being fair to douchebags when we use the term as an insult? As much as I love the phrase "Il Douche," I wonder why a feminine hygiene product ended up as a slur.

2. The use of the term "sexual assault" can be problematic. In my state it is a synonym for rape and it involves penetration. Grabbing a woman's pudendum I would be more likely to classify as "sexual abuse." However this is largely because as a newspaper reporter/editor I was sensitive to using legal terms correctly.

One other thing: "Scumbag" means used condom, and the paper's "slot man" - last eyes on copy - would not allow it in print. Same with "snafu." And probably he wouldn't be too crazy about "douche" either.

Frankly, I don't care what slur you use to describe Trump. It's unfair to used condoms to compare them to such a horrible being. That said I like the "Il Douche" because of the historical reference to another despicable ridiculous fascist demagogue who got his just end.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Definitely noticeable to me.

As I watched I found the whole event strangely beautiful, with the movement, body language and juxtapositions. The citizens right there, the inquisitors, the chairs that seemed like props to pace around. It put me in mind of experimental theater or perhaps a Greek tragedy. I actually teared up at the end when they had to compliment each other. I don't think Hillary was slighting him by citing his family; I thought she was saying that he must have something good going on - besides money - to command such loyalty. I actually teared up at the sincerity with which he praised Hillary's tenacity. For a moment I thought maybe something good could be salvaged from this awful election cycle.

A couple of random points that might annoy people, but I make odd connections:
1. Are we really being fair to douchebags when we use the term as an insult? As much as I love the phrase "Il Douche," I wonder why a feminine hygiene product ended up as a slur.

2. The use of the term "sexual assault" can be problematic. In my state it is a synonym for rape and it involves penetration. Grabbing a woman's pudendum I would be more likely to classify as "sexual abuse." However this is largely because as a newspaper reporter/editor I was sensitive to using legal terms correctly.

One other thing: "Scumbag" means used condom, and the paper's "slot man" - last eyes on copy - would not allow it in print. Same with "snafu." And probably he wouldn't be too crazy about "douche" either.

I love this posts and your observations. Mainly because I don't think most people experienced it the way you did, which makes it special and unique.

 

[Minoosh]

I love this posts and your observations. Mainly because I don't think most people experienced it the way you did, which makes it special and unique.

Why, thank you!

 

[fuelair]

Am I the only one who thought Trump looked genuinely bummed at the beginning of the debate? His voice had barely any energy, and it almost felt like he was keeping from bursting into tears. He was like a shadow of himself. At least at the very beginning when he was asked about his mysoginist comments... then after that, they never touched that subject again and he gradually came back to his usual pumped-up-attack-dog state. But those first 15 minutes were very uncomfortable for me to watch. For the first time, I actually felt sorry for him.

I could never feel sorry for a slime like it.

 

[Andy_Ross]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyl_nitrate:

I think you meant amyl nitrite?

http://www.powerpoppers.com/amyl_nitrate_poppers.shtml