Who killed Meredith Kercher? part 23

[LondonJohn]

It hasn't reached court yet.

Ahhhh! So is THIS what you're talking about?!

An obsessive (and hugely deeply over-invested in a guilt position) private Italian individual brings an action. The police investigate it (as is their obligation). The same obsessive individual over-interprets police communications to him (in which he's been told that his accusations against Hellmann are totally laughable, and that his accusations against the rest at least require some looking into) as some sort of "sign" that everything's about to kick off. Vixen has a private line of communication to this obsessive Italian (who could that POSSIBLY be...?!). Vixen has her "ear to the ground". QED.

Am I close? Tell me I'm close! Please!

 

[LondonJohn]

'Inability to recognise starch granules...?' Really...?

I am willing to bet Stefanoni is more skilled, or at least equally skilled as you.

So, what is your level of skill that you can be so disparaging of Stefanoni?

You do know that commentators can rationally - and from a position of intellect and understanding - correctly criticise others without having to have the same level of skill? Or do you require, for example, that all journalists who write about Wayne Rooney making certain mistakes during a football (soccer) game must be "at least as skilled" as Rooney before being disparaging of him? Or that a homeowner criticising a plumber's shoddy work must be "at least as skilled" as the plumber in order to be allowed to do so credibly?

Stefanoni was serially incompetent (to the point of serious malpractice in many instances) in the Knox/Kercher investigation. That is easily demonstrable, and is equally easily clear to anyone with a) an open mind, b) a requisite level of intellect and understanding of the scientific method, and c) an aversion to KoolAid.

 

[bagels]

Hmmm, you are right. Speaking of bagels, just off to do myself a smoked salmon bagel with cream cheese.

Incidentally, today I helped contribute to a £400 fundraising meal to enable poor children to go to school in a desperately deprived part of the world.

What 'productive thing' have YOU done today?

To be fair I only know your interest in this case to be an internet posting hobby, same as ours.

I was referring to someone who is trying to stir up real life trouble with the courts. At that point it's time to take a deep breath and re-focus those priorities.

 

[Vixen]

Ahhhh! So is THIS what you're talking about?!

An obsessive (and hugely deeply over-invested in a guilt position) private Italian individual brings an action. The police investigate it (as is their obligation). The same obsessive individual over-interprets police communications to him (in which he's been told that his accusations against Hellmann are totally laughable, and that his accusations against the rest at least require some looking into) as some sort of "sign" that everything's about to kick off. Vixen has a private line of communication to this obsessive Italian (who could that POSSIBLY be...?!). Vixen has her "ear to the ground". QED.

Am I close? Tell me I'm close! Please!

That's for you to ask, and for me to tell

 

[LondonJohn]

By the way, I wonder what the Italian police and courts might make of it if they found out that this private individual who brought the action against all those pesky acquitting judges and scientists was in fact working covertly in cahoots with a certain well-known Italian prosecutor?

Not that that could POSSIBLY be the case, of course........

 

[LondonJohn]

That's for you to ask, and for me to tell

I did ask. Say hello to the obsessive Italian for me, won't you. Whoever he (or she) might be

 

[LondonJohn]

To be fair I only know your interest in this case to be an internet posting hobby, same as ours.

I was referring to someone who is trying to stir up real life trouble with the courts. At that point it's time to take a deep breath and re-focus those priorities.

Yes. And bracket in with this the extraordinary pro-guilt commentator effort - replete with exhortations and directions being issued in a quasi-military fashion - to flood the internet in response to the Netflix film. A small number of nutters are clearly putting in a quite remarkable number of hours in that zealous effort, and getting themselves very self-righteously worked up in the process.

Nonetheless, we must all remember to wear our charitable undertakings on our sleeves. After all, they don't really count unless/until we talk about them to others, do they?

 

[Vixen]

You do know that commentators can rationally - and from a position of intellect and understanding - correctly criticise others without having to have the same level of skill? Or do you require, for example, that all journalists who write about Wayne Rooney making certain mistakes during a football (soccer) game must be "at least as skilled" as Rooney before being disparaging of him? Or that a homeowner criticising a plumber's shoddy work must be "at least as skilled" as the plumber in order to be allowed to do so credibly?

Stefanoni was serially incompetent (to the point of serious malpractice in many instances) in the Knox/Kercher investigation. That is easily demonstrable, and is equally easily clear to anyone with a) an open mind, b) a requisite level of intellect and understanding of the scientific method, and c) an aversion to KoolAid.

I've been in football crowds and there is nothing more irritating than the chaps role-playing the football coach, 'Pass it up the field, son!' as if said footballer is going to stop play to listen to all the advice from the crowd.

However, I do expect the talking heads on tv to know what they are talking about (no, I rarely watch these programmes, but I do listen to people like Ian Wright (footie) or Michael Johnson (running), in the Olympics, because these guys have been there, at top level.

Do you have any evidence of Stefanoni's alleged malpractice? What date was the hearing?

 

[Vixen]

To be fair I only know your interest in this case to be an internet posting hobby, same as ours.

I was referring to someone who is trying to stir up real life trouble with the courts. At that point it's time to take a deep breath and re-focus those priorities.

OK, fair enough.

If I had the legal right, I too would be filing complaints to Florence about the conduct of (a) the Hellmann court and (b) the Fifth Chambers.

 

[LondonJohn]

I've been in football crowds and there is nothing more irritating than the chaps role-playing the football coach, 'Pass it up the field, son!' as if said footballer is going to stop play to listen to all the advice from the crowd.

However, I do expect the talking heads on tv to know what they are talking about (no, I rarely watch these programmes, but I do listen to people like Ian Wright (footie) or Michael Johnson (running), in the Olympics, because these guys have been there, at top level.

Do you have any evidence of Stefanoni's alleged malpractice? What date was the hearing?

Did you catch the part where I said "journalist". Not "fan on the terraces or "ex-player in the studio". Read my posts properly before composing a reply, please.

You do also realise that malpractice doesn't need a "hearing" to identify it, don't you?

 

[Mike1711]

How do you work that out, as the courts found all three of them were at the crime scene and the trial and first appeal judges found all three guilty as charged, naming Rudy as the accessory to the crime and Amanda the inflicter of the mortal wound.

Do you do this deliberately or do you genuinely not understand how law works?

I don't know why I'm doing this, but anyway....

Courts do not create imprical facts (how on earth could they?). They simply create procedural "judicial facts" (facts by definition only) for functionality.

Certain countries do not allow these "judicial facts" to be appealed (the theory being that this would result in a retrial (double jeopardy, etc.). One such country is Italy. Unlike Italy, most democratic countries allow the appellant to appeal "judicial facts" but this indulgence is not extended to the state.

A court interprets evidence to create a "factual framework" around which the law turns. Courts are fallible and we all know this....except you perhaps.

So if you persist with the "three people murdered Kercher" narrative as a cast in stone fact, then you are knowingly being dishonest.You have been told, on numerous occasions, now stop it.

 

[Vixen]

Did you catch the part where I said "journalist". Not "fan on the terraces or "ex-player in the studio". Read my posts properly before composing a reply, please.

You do also realise that malpractice doesn't need a "hearing" to identify it, don't you?

I see. So it's all in your mind.

 

[LondonJohn]

I see. So it's all in your mind.

What? You mean Stefanoni's incompetence and malpractice is all in my mind?

Nope. The failure to quantify low-template DNA samples; the astonishingly inept swabbing of the sink and bidet at the crime scene; the even more astonishingly inept wrapping of a potentially-important piece of evidence in wrapping paper that came from within the murder cottage; the failure to retain the source electronic data from all of the DNA test runs; the incompetence over the amplification of samples, and the failure to split samples; the dissembling over whether DNA source data had been provided to the defence (it never was); the analysis of low template DNA in laboratory conditions that egregiously broke pretty much every single one of the protocols that are a strict requirement for producing reliable, robust results when working with such minuscule quantities; the ignoring of negative presumptive blood tests on many of the samples, and the associated lie to the courts about having done so........

..... that......... is a whole stinking great heap of demonstrable incompetence and malpractice on the part of not-a-real-doctor Stefanoni.

 

[Stacyhs]

This is a good example of failure to disclose methodology used to the defence. There is no record of how Steffanoni came to the conclusion the hair was human. Nor how she identified the hair colour (actually different with individual hairs), was there a standard colour chart she referred to ? Did she have a sample of the defendants hair for comparison? Were there reference samples from the other flat mates and the boyfriend who might also have deposited hair? What we can say with certainty is since Knox is not blonde but had dyed hair the blonde hairs could not have been hers; as a competent Scientist like Steffanoni would have identified the hair as dyed.

You simply put it under the microscope and it will have human features. Hair that is bleached is not the same as hair that is dyed. Bleach strips the colour out of it. Dye adds colour.

Planigale didn't say the hair was bleached; you brought up bleached hair. So your bleach vs dye comment is irrelevant. The fact is, as has been pointed out to you numerous times, that Amanda's hair was dyed and the hairs in Meredith's room were not identified as dyed. I don't understand why you keep bringing the hairs up when they do not provide a shred of evidence against Amanda.

 

[Stacyhs]

Edited by kmortis: 

Removed previously moderated content

Yet the world's leading DNA experts support C&V's conclusions and no expert has come out in support of Stefanoni's. Gee....I wonder why that is?

 

[JREF2010]

Yet the world's leading DNA experts support C&V's conclusions and no expert has come out in support of Stefanoni's. Gee....I wonder why that is?

If I recall correctly the Judge ordered the prosecution to be available for the C&V testing and no complaints were filed of the testing....the years have passed, but it was a surprise Hellman allowed the C&V testing after he'd refused almost all the other Defense requests.

 

[Welshman]

Yet the world's leading DNA experts support C&V's conclusions and no expert has come out in support of Stefanoni's. Gee....I wonder why that is?

When Machiavelli posted here, I asked him if he could write a rebuttal of C&V report. He refused to do so using the lame excuse he was not paid to do so. If C&V were so incompetent, why are PGP unable to rebut their report?

 

[LondonJohn]

When Machiavelli posted here, I asked him if he could write a rebuttal of C&V report. He refused to do so using the lame excuse he was not paid to do so. If C&V were so incompetent, why are PGP unable to rebut their report?

Because the conclusions and findings of the C/V report were entirely correct, robust, and in line with current worldwide standards and practice (and, of course, those that were current in 2007).

Still, shout the word "CORRUPTION!" enough times (in the absence of a shred of supporting evidence, obviously) and a few morons might believe you. Lots of people love a good conspiracy theory, after all

 

[LondonJohn]

By the way, my ear to the ground tells me that Mignini is about to be indicted for corruption and offences against the Italian Constitution. My ear is burning, actually. And nobody can question how I might (or might not) come to know this explosive information. I just know it from my ear being to the ground, ok?

 

[Vixen]

This is the saddest thing I have read for a long time:

'Dad's was the next voice I heard. Through tears he told me the name he had been given by a newspaper was Meredith. I thought – it was a mixture of disbelief and sheer pain. I did not know what to think or do and then my body just sunk.
'When I arrived at Mum's the pain in my chest was unbearable as I was told the few details of what had happened – the broken window, her door locked on the inside.
'Thoughts and scenarios were racing through my head faster than I could comprehend and I collapsed into my parents' arms, filled with the fear Meredith must have endured that night.'
The family stayed up all night watching the news, waiting for any concrete information.
Then a Halloween photo of Meredith taken the night before her murder was the first to appear on television.
'I spun round to Mum and said, 'That's not Mez. That's not Mez, Mum'.'
'I was adamant it was not my little sister, but Mum stroked my hair and painfully submitted that it was.
'I cried all night until I could barely see or breathe, everything just felt so empty.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-unnecessary-Netflix-show.html#ixzz4MiRcgpVI