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Trump runs for POTUS / Trumped Up! Part V

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phiwum said:
I probably came off as supporting this notion of "disenfranchised". I sure didn't mean to.

I don't consider living in a deep red or blue state a matter of disenfranchisement.



I don't think of it as being disenfranchised, but I do agree that, in practical terms, your vote or my vote or pretty much anyone else's vote makes no difference (by itself). If I don't vote, there is no difference in the outcome.

(Some people may be tempted to ask, "But what if everyone felt that way?" It is a pointless question, since I'm not trying to persuade others not to vote and my non-participation doesn't make others not vote. Indeed, if fewer people voted, then that's more power for those who vote!)
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You're right of course. I used the term "disenfranchised" incorrectly. I don't really have a well-considered opinion other than that I am free to follow whatever whim stimulates the appropriate nerve ending(s) when I get into the ballot box, secure in the knowledge that I can't possibly have any effect on the outcome (unless a large number of others in my state choose to behave just as irresponsibly as I) I would be less cynical if I thought there was a chance of switching to Condorcet or Approval voting in this country, but that seems to be a pipe dream.
 
Puppycow said:
If I may make a slight tangent here, this reminds me about something I read last week about some Muslim Trump supporters. It was in an article about the Koch brothers but that's sort of a side point. You might think why on earth would a Muslim support Trump. And maybe they're the only ones but they exist.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.news...david-koch-donald-trump-afp-503496.html?amp=1



Isn't that weird? "A gut feeling"?

I have more respect for the Kochs and their principles though. Even though I don't agree with their ideology at least they can recognize how odious Trump is and they want nothing to do with him. As for Mary Khalef though, I have no idea what she's thinking. Gut feelings aren't always the best thing to follow in my experience.
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Yea, I had a gut feeling for that car I bought that had the engine froze within a couple of days. Or just before the old lady gives up all her personal information right before they clean her out. A gut feeling is what you get when you eat potato salad that has been left out in the boiling sun for 10 hours.

Donald Trump is a con man. He's been a con man his entire life. The evidence is overwhelming on that point. It's damn hard to feel for people when they had all the information needed to avoid being fleeced and yet they still fall for it.
 
Prometheus said:
You're right of course. I used the term "disenfranchised" incorrectly. I don't really have a well-considered opinion other than that I am free to follow whatever whim stimulates the appropriate nerve ending(s) when I get into the ballot box, secure in the knowledge that I can't possibly have any effect on the outcome (unless a large number of others in my state choose to behave just as irresponsibly as I) I would be less cynical if I thought there was a chance of switching to Condorcet or Approval voting in this country, but that seems to be a pipe dream.
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We use Condorcet voting in my book club. I voted against using it because it rarely gives a clear winner. Unfortunately, we used Condorcet voting to determine which voting system to use, and Condorcet was the winner. I was not happy that we used Condorcet voting for that poll. I felt disenfranchised.
 
sunmaster14 said:
I'm pretty sure that the interpretation you're implying of that excerpt is wrong. Her point is that immigration from countries awash in terrorism should be banned. In response to her interlocutor's worry that perfectly harmless Muslim people will also be denied entry to the US, Katrina's point was that she didn't care that they were Muslim. The important factor is their country of origin.
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Nope, your interpretation is laughable. Try again.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Since Fast Eddie refuses to answer my question, how about you tell me what you think she meant? Please be specific.
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Sorry! We're camping so I'm only intermittently online.

I'd call it a Freudian Slip. In her heart of hearts she either does not much care for Muslims, or has just adopted that persona as spokesman.

I'll rewatch the video later to see if I'm missing anything - I don't think I am.
 
Summary:

Not just terrorists or those from certain countries may get excluded solely because of their religion. Answer? "So what?" That indicates it's not important. Why not? "They're Muslims".

Might have been a slip, Freudian or otherwise. Or a dog whistle. But the meaning was perfectly clear.
 
slyjoe said:
How anyone can support him after crap like this is beyond me.
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The ones who believe those kids were guilty do cite collaboration outside of the coerced confessions that are not normally addressed by defenders.

Maybe it is the age of the case, but it doesn't have the back and forth debates you see in Internet sleuthing.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Summary:

Not just terrorists or those from certain countries may get excluded solely because of their religion. Answer? "So what?" That indicates it's not important. Why not? "They're Muslims".

Might have been a slip, Freudian or otherwise. Or a dog whistle. But the meaning was perfectly clear.
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Fine. I completely disagree and am surprised that somebody could, upon reflection, think as you do, but I get that, ultimately, interpretation is subjective. I guess some people also have a hard time backing down from a position. I get that too.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Fine. I completely disagree and am surprised that somebody could, upon reflection, think as you do, but I get that, ultimately, interpretation is subjective. I guess some people also have a hard time backing down from a position. I get that too.
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I bet you're glad it wasn't "Trump Spokesman David Duke" who said this. It'd be real awkward to have to defend a bigot, wouldn't it?

No, but defending a level-headed reasonable person like Katrina Pierson because the evil media are misinterpreting her is an honorable duty. Maybe you could reinterpret some of her other misunderstood remarks so we can nominate her for the Nobel Peace Prize.

How about, "Perfect. Obama's dad born in Kenya. Mitt Romney's dad born in Mexico. Any pure breeds left?" I'm sure there's a reasonable interpretation of that.

Or, when she said the 2012 election was a choice between a "Mormon or a Jihadi"? We all just misunderstood that, I guess.

Seriously.... "Pure Breeds"????? Who talks like that? That's not a rhetorical question, I'd like you to identify them and recognize them. That's who you're defending.
 
Good afternoon sunmaster14.
sunmaster14 said:
Fine. I completely disagree and am surprised that somebody could, upon reflection, think as you do, but I get that, ultimately, interpretation is subjective. I guess some people also have a hard time backing down from a position. I get that too.
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I agree with you that interpretation is subjective. The problem is Trump supporters consistently rely on interpretation, and not what Trump or his surrogates actually say.
 
You know, I WAS going to vote for Trump, because he has a reputation of being a straight shooter who says what he means, and means what he says. But now, I can't in good conscience vote for a guy who employs a spokes-woman who doesn't actually mean what she says when she said what she didn't mean.


;)
 
NoahFence said:
Man. Talk about tone deaf.

Spin machine is on deck. Lets see who'll take a crack at this one.
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How do you spin it? If he still believes the Central Park Five are guilty, he's unhinged and delusional. If he doesn't, he's a grade A racist monster. He's left his surrogates with no good choices.
 
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