Merged High Hitler / How High Were The Nazis?

[Filippo Lippi]

Not my title see here

Interesting perspective on a subject where one thought there was little that was new to say about the Third Reich. The theory that it was shaped by substance abuse is a new one to me.

 

[Norman Alexander]

The use of Pervitin by the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe was well known, even at the time. Morell's "prescriptions" for Hitler have also long been published.

It was posited some time ago (I recall back in the 1970's) that one of the reasons the many weird-and-wonderful plans to assassinate Hitler were not pursued so vigorously was that Adolf was indeed high as a kite much of the time in his last years, due to Morell's little pick-me-ups. And so his psychotic episodes were doing more to cripple the war effort than killing him would achieve. There were even a wild conspiracy theories then that Morell was either a secret Allied agent drugging Hitler, or he was a secret anti-Nazi at least.

Among the Allies, the stimulant of choice was Benzedrine, used for much the same reasons as the Axis used Pervitin and similar.

 

[dudalb]

The use of Pervitin by the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe was well known, even at the time. Morell's "prescriptions" for Hitler have also long been published.

It was posited some time ago (I recall back in the 1970's) that one of the reasons the many weird-and-wonderful plans to assassinate Hitler were not pursued so vigorously was that Adolf was indeed high as a kite much of the time in his last years, due to Morell's little pick-me-ups. And so his psychotic episodes were doing more to cripple the war effort than killing him would achieve. There were even a wild conspiracy theories then that Morell was either a secret Allied agent drugging Hitler, or he was a secret anti-Nazi at least.

Among the Allies, the stimulant of choice was Benzedrine, used for much the same reasons as the Axis used Pervitin and similar.

The terrible effect that Morell's drugs had on Hitler at least physically have been around since 1945;Trevor Roper in "The Last Days Of Hitler" published in 1946 and the first major work about the Final days and death of Hitler describes Morell and his drugs in great detail.
But I am always very skeptical about writers who claim they have "New material that will cause history to be rewritten" amazing how many writers claim that how seldom it happens.
Now read about John Bell Hood in the American Civil War if you want a example of how drug use by a command officer might well have caused a Military Disater...in this case the twin disasters of Franklin and Nashville (both in Tennesee) which caused the almost total destruction of The Army of Tennesee as an effective military force.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

The terrible effect that Morell's drugs had on Hitler at least physically have been around since 1945;Trevor Roper in "The Last Days Of Hitler" published in 1946 and the first major work about the Final days and death of Hitler describes Morell and his drugs in great detail.

Kershaw doubts Hitler was adversely affected to that extent by drugs and instead suggests he suffered from, IIRC, Parkinson's disease, and possibly cardiovascular problems due to his poor diet and sedentary lifestyle.

 

[KDLarsen]

Kershaw doubts Hitler was adversely affected to that extent by drugs and instead suggests he suffered from, IIRC, Parkinson's disease, and possibly cardiovascular problems due to his poor diet and sedentary lifestyle.

Not to mention the July 20 bombing couldn't have done much to improve his health.

 

[deadrose]

Yes, Parkinsons was the one. There's footage out there that shows him with a fairly pronounced Parkinsonian tremor in his left hand, which he's trying to conceal behind his back.

But was it the cause of the problems, or a symptom of drug use or head injury? That's the big question.

 

[dudalb]

We can debate what caused Hitler's horrible health...eminent historians and biographers disagree on that..but all agree he was a total wreck by late 1944.
ANyway, that Guardian article is more then a little sensationalistic...not uncommon in writing about the Third reich. It sells maganzines and books.

 

[BStrong]

World War II saw the issue of amphetamines to combat troops by just about every party to the conflict:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_and_culture_of_substituted_amphetamines#Military_use

As far as the use of "whatever" by Hitler, it could explain much about what went on before and during the war. Nobody is as self centered as a drug addict, and Hitler certainly fills that bill.

 

[ddt]

Yes, Parkinsons was the one. There's footage out there that shows him with a fairly pronounced Parkinsonian tremor in his left hand, which he's trying to conceal behind his back.

You mean this footage, Hitler decorating HJ, 20 March 1945, his last public showing?



I thought so too, but reviewing the footage you don't get to see the left hand: his adjutant obscures the view. He does indeed conceal his hand behind his back for the HJ boys.

 

[deadrose]

Try this video with the missing footage restored

 

[ddt]

Thank you!

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Yes, Parkinsons was the one. There's footage out there that shows him with a fairly pronounced Parkinsonian tremor in his left hand, which he's trying to conceal behind his back.

But was it the cause of the problems, or a symptom of drug use or head injury? That's the big question.

Parkinson's is multifactorial enough that if he did indeed use methamphetamines to such an extent that it increased the risk, he might have developed Parkinson's even if he hadn't.

 

[Segnosaur]

World War II saw the issue of amphetamines to combat troops by just about every party to the conflict:

Which is the origin of the phrase "Winning the war... on drugs".

 

[jimbob]

Which is the origin of the phrase "Winning the war... on drugs".

Well played sir

[polite applause]

 

[BStrong]

Which is the origin of the phrase "Winning the war... on drugs".

That, I can not dispute.

There's even a body of evidence for the proposition that the meth problem as constituted in Japan today is a direct result of the wide-spread distribution of speed to the civilian workforce in WWII.

 

[dudalb]

Then there was Caffine....the fuel on which the US Navy ran.
Samuel Eliot Morrison, the great Historian of the US Navy in World War 2 wrote:

'The US Navy, if forced to, could win a war without Coffee...but they would really prefer not to have to try".

 

[jimbob]

Whereas tea was possibly considered even more vital to the British war effort.

I like coffee, but I don't function without tea

 

[dudalb]

Whereas tea was possibly considered even more vital to the British war effort.

I like coffee, but I don't function without tea

Reverse coffee and tea,and you have how the US Navy felt about it's "Joe".

US Army was about the same.The small packet of Instant Coffee was the most valued part of the K Ration pack.

 

[Eddie Dane]

I think the pressure of leading a crumbling empire under siege from all sides would be enough to do anyone's nerves in.

Doing it with the likes of Goebbles (sp?) and Goering doesn't make the experience less stressful.

Stalin suffered a nervous breakdown at the start of the war, so that conclusively proves that being a sociopath doesn't make one immune to stress and worry.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

How High Were The Nazis?

One thing that I fear is not as widely known about the Third Reich as maybe it should, is how widespread and even encouraged the use of dangerous drugs was.

E.g., methamphetamine (and I mean really the exact same meth as in Breaking Bad) under the brand name of Pervitin was so ubiquitous in the Luftwaffe, that Pervitin was better known colocquially as "Herman Göring pills" or "Stuka tablets". During the night raids on Britain, air crews were actually encouraged to take one or two Pervitin pills to stay awake.

After France, the side effects became very obvious, not the least of concerns being that after you got a soldier higher than a kite on meth for a battle, it would take one or two days for said soldier to recover to full ability to fight again. Also documented effects were an increase in agression, which sounds good for an army, but that also included being more inclined to take it on civilians or get into fights with fellow soldiers or even officers.

So the Heer (army) cut down on pushing it on the troops after France. Other branches, including the Luftwaffe and SS, just ignored the side effects and continued pushing it on their soldiers until the bitter end.


Which really gets me to wonder about one thing: THE most prevalent complaint the Heer officers had about fighting together with the Waffen SS was that the SS were overly aggressive, to the point of endangering themselves and the troops they were supposed to fight together with, and routinely ignored orders in favour of doing their own aggressive thing.

And my wonder is: so how much of that do you suppose was because of being marinated in meth?