Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

This is your opinion, obviously, but not the official conclusion of any court. So why should we care what your opinion is on this matter?

You don't think documentaries should at least be accurate and in good faith?

 

[Vixen]

Vixen, why do you quote from Massei and Nencini and reference their rulings and trials? Do you have a reason that is internally consistent with your own logic? Or nah?

The trial court findings and the appeal remain a valid part of the court documents and facts that were upheld.

The only facts thrown out were those that (a) went to appeal and (b) succeeded.

The only part of the appeal that succeeded was the DNA evidence regarding the bra clasp and the knife, which was struck out.

All the other facts found by the two merits courts still stand.

Clear now?

 

[Vixen]

They may have been fair and balanced, but the Supreme Court acquitted them, on the grounds that the evidence in front of those courts was not such as to justify a conviction.

Only the bra clasp and knife DNA. In any case Hellmann had no jurisdiction to appoint his own experts, anyway (Vecchiotti and Conti), if you read Chiefi carefully.

 

[Vixen]

The Boninsegna court was NOT a lower court with relation to the murder exoneration. It was a new process, one that acquited Knox for defamation against the police.

Where do you get this stuff, that the Boninsegna court "overturned" the murder acquittals? What the Boninsenga court did was simply begin its M.R. by stating the facts of all the proceedings which went before it:

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Boninsegna then gets into the matter in front of his court - the calunnia charge against Knox re: the police/interpreter. That finding is an acquittal.

It is incredible that you continue to argue this.

It is also bizarre that you're still peddling that there is an equivalent to the Scottish "not proven" in Italy. You are simply spoon-fed from TJMK.

Incredible.

Boninsegna was using the term in a colloquial sense, not a legal one, as the pair were NOT exonerated in the legal meaning of the word.

 

[Vixen]

An Italian judge acting in his official capacity while writing an official report said they were exonerated. But that doesn't count because Vixen has an opinion, and that opinion matters more than a bag of hammers, for some reason I haven't quite grasped.

Well, he got it wrong, didn't he?

 

[Vixen]

Oh dear, oh dear. Law is not your strong point, is it? Massei and Nencini were expunged.

Do you not get Massei and Nencini have zilch meaning.

No, Massei and Nencini were not expunged. Only the DNA bit to do with the bra clasp and knife was struck out.

Please don't draw attention to your patent ignorance.

 

[Vixen]

Yeah..... what actual objective evidence do you have for this. You ought to know by now that Mignini's entirely self-serving "justification" to ballet-botherer Quennell, in a naked attempt to spin a disastrous situation, simply doesn't cut it. Do you have hard evidence (in the form of the actual filmed interview) of exactly what Mignini was asked, and exactly what he replied?

That'll be a no, then.

You have been told by Mignini himself.

 

[Vixen]

It was heartbreaking hearing Mrs Kercher. But you've obviously not seen the documentary - I can't remember the exact quote, but it was obvious she felt betrayed by Italy.

You can't blame her can you? Italy allowed the USA, PR publicists, freemasons and mafia interests to interfere in the justice process. Chiefi did well to tackle the corrupt Hellmann, and eviscerate Vecchiotti & Conti who worked at the same uni where Bongiorno's own father worked <nudge nudge wink wink> and improperly appointed by Hellmann.

Bongiorno got the check when she got the Supreme Court pawns to move on back two squares, castle with the appointment of her old chum black knight Bruno, the 81 year old junior judge in the Fifth Chambers and the king, Marasca was cornered by the old Queen. Checkmate.

Poor Arline, John and the Kercher family.

 

[Vixen]

I only come on this thread once in a blue moon... I mean it's about 4000 pages or something in total now.

Is Vixen the only person actively arguing the Knox guilt side now?

Someone has to point out the truth now and then, Caper. What would the world be like if everybody was apathetic?

 

[Vixen]

Once again, please have the courtesy to read what I actually wrote, before replying to something you thought I wrote but which in fact I didn't write.

What I wrote was that in a single-acquittal system, "not guilty" and "not proven" are synonymous. That's nothing whatsoever to convictions being vacated on appeal.

How fascinating. However, Italy is not a 'single acquital system'. You have been told they have Art 230 para II, which is equivalent to 'not proven'.

 

[Vixen]

It's emblematic of the pro-guilt idiots that they apparently cannot even see that Mignini is trying to re-invent history in his bizarre reply to TJMK (and I wonder where else in recent history a public prosecutor has chosen a weird niche website run by a Walter-Mitty-style obsessive to promote his/her own agenda, rather than a, y'know, proper media outlet...?). The very fact that the pro-guilt mob appear to take Mignini's "rebuttal" wholly at face value shows just how a) deeply over-invested, and b) incapable of critical thinking they are.

As I said before, I will not be one tiny bit surprised if/when objective documentary evidence comes out which exposes Mignini's "rebuttal" for what it is. And as I've also said before, Mignini has plenty of prior form in lying to try to protect himself, even before courts of law. It's not surprising that morons within the pro-guilt community need to believe that he's the epitome of probity and scrupulous honesty though.........

Mignini is used to dealing with hardened criminals and serious organised crime. He has seen many of his colleagues in the judiciary assassinated by the mob. He will not be bothered by the likes of you.

 

[Vixen]

On here, yep. There are also two (or perhaps three) pro-guilt websites with a handful of participants that are still fighting the True Believer fight. Everyone else has been enlightened.

And there are still loose ends and unfinished business in this case to discuss. The biggest of these is Knox's application to the European Court of Human Rights in respect of her criminal slander conviction (which currently still stands), on the grounds that she was unlawfully coerced and unlawfully denied access to legal advice, and was thus denied her human rights. If the ECHR rules in her favour (as many of us believe is highly probable, based on multiple pieces of evidence corroborating her claims), Italy will have little choice but to annul that conviction too, thereby clearing the slate totally for Knox.

In addition to that, there's also the continuing aftermath of the murder trials to discuss. The Netflix docu-film is part of that process. There will undoubtedly be more, in the form of journalistic investigation and potential investigation by the authorities in Italy. Recently, for example, the investigating prosecutor in this case (Mignini) was officially censured by his regulatory body for the improper way in which he denied Knox and Sollecito access to legal advice for over two days from the point of their detention right up until moments before their first arraignment hearing (Mignini invoked an entirely inappropriate section of the criminal code, intended for suspects in organised crime or terrorism cases, to do so).

So there's still some life in the old case yet. Thankfully, though, the biggest decisions have been made.

Please don't rewrite history. Mignini was censured for failing to put it in writing. Raff DID have legal counsel at the hearing in question. The administration department made a clerical error by omitting to give Raff the formal written version of this right.

Amanda's application to the ECHR is fraudulent, as can be seen in the Netflix documentary which she appears to have instigated herself, according to directors Blackhurst and McGinn.

They vilify Nick Pisa 'for not checking court facts', yet they themselves fraudulently use fake images of the Patrik phone. Why the deception?

Attached is the police photo of the actual phone and with it the fake film reconstruction. The voiceover/subtitles claims this message is Patrik telling her not to come in, but the only message visible on the phone is the one she sent. Viewers not speaking Italian will not be aware of this sleight of hand.

Nota Bene: the picture with the page number in top right hand corner, is the official police version and the bonafide one.

You support fraud do you?

ETA For the avoidance of doubt, Amanda had deleted Patrik's message, so her claim 'police showed me his message telling me not to come in' (see Netflix film subtitle) is a blatant and calculated lie.

 

[Vixen]

man, I wish I could find that first Nightline (ABC news show) report on the case... must have been within the 1st month of the murder. They presented it as such a slam dunk for the prosecution. It was presented as a story of how technology betrayed them.


Has anyone ever changed anyone's mind? I find these people as hard to convince as 9/11 truthers... which I am sure there is a huge overlap.

The term 'these people' is invariably used by bigots.

 

[Vixen]

I think the original Hellmann acquittal woke some people up to the fact that, even if they didn't suddenly believe Knox to be some innocent angel, the case really did have weaknesses and the prosecution/police really did screw some things up.

Anyone who still believed the case was strong after Hellmann is a lifer. They'll take Mignini's fantasy to their grave.

Er, Hellmann was shown to be corrupt and immediately pensioned off. You are advocating belief in a corrupt official????

 

[LondonJohn]

You have been told by Mignini himself.

Hahahaha! You're not being serious, are you?

 

[LondonJohn]

How fascinating. However, Italy is not a 'single acquital system'. You have been told they have Art 230 para II, which is equivalent to 'not proven'.

And you have been told in detail that Para 2 is not analogous to "not proven". OK?

 

[LondonJohn]

No, Massei and Nencini were not expunged. Only the DNA bit to do with the bra clasp and knife was struck out.

Please don't draw attention to your patent ignorance.

Hahahaha! You're not being serious, are you?

 

[LondonJohn]

Er, Hellmann was shown to be corrupt and immediately pensioned off. You are advocating belief in a corrupt official????

Ooooh! Show us all the evidence that "Hellmann was shown to be corrupt". And that as a result, he was "immediately pensioned off". Do you think the facts are anything you choose them to be?

This is pitiful. Have you really drunk this much of the God/Ergon/Quennell KoolAid?

 

[LondonJohn]

Please don't rewrite history. Mignini was censured for failing to put it in writing. Raff DID have legal counsel at the hearing in question. The administration department made a clerical error by omitting to give Raff the formal written version of this right.

Bollocks. Unfortunately, it's you who is rewriting history here, Vaccine (_sp?).

Amanda's application to the ECHR is fraudulent, as can be seen in the Netflix documentary which she appears to have instigated herself, according to directors Blackhurst and McGinn.

Again. Total bollocks. And your passive weasel construction of "...as can be seen..." is woeful.

They vilify Nick Pisa 'for not checking court facts', yet they themselves fraudulently use fake images of the Patrik phone. Why the deception?

Attached is the police photo of the actual phone and with it the fake film reconstruction. The voiceover/subtitles claims this message is Patrik telling her not to come in, but the only message visible on the phone is the one she sent. Viewers not speaking Italian will not be aware of this sleight of hand.

Nota Bene: the picture with the page number in top right hand corner, is the official police version and the bonafide one.

You support fraud do you?

ETA For the avoidance of doubt, Amanda had deleted Patrik's message, so her claim 'police showed me his message telling me not to come in' (see Netflix film subtitle) is a blatant and calculated lie.

And you have proof that the message from Lumumba to Knox was not on her phone at the time she showed her phone to police, do you...?

Nope. Thought not. Once again, total bollocks.

(And shouldn't that be "bene nota"?)



This is easier (and more boring) than shooting fish in a barrel

 

[LondonJohn]

Mignini is used to dealing with hardened criminals and serious organised crime. He has seen many of his colleagues in the judiciary assassinated by the mob. He will not be bothered by the likes of you.

Haha I don't give a flying toss whether Mignini is or is not "bothered" by me. Why on earth should I? He's been humiliated and brought down by his monumental hubris, mendacity and incompetence in the Knox/Sollecito trials - he's ruined his career and his reputation just fine all by himself

(I'm guessing he must still smile to himself every day that there's a small band of obsessive, credulous half-wits out there who still believe him to be the model of probity and high standing, and who will defend him and his actions no matter what....)