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Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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They were all found to be guilty in a court of law at the merits fact-finding trial stage (the final stage usually in the UK and USA) of aggravated murder, and Rudy as of being an accesssory to the fact.

None of them are factually innocent. However, on the balance of probabilities there is a 0.01% chance of Amanda and Raff being innocent, and a 0.05% of Rudy having really been out of the room when it happened. Seems to have described Raff quite well.

What part of acquitted by the Supreme Court are you not understanding? It doesn't matter what Massei found. Hellmann found them innocent. They were both overturned.

Your last paragraph is being assigned to the assfact pile along with the rest of the "facts" you pulled out of the same place.
 
Um...no. He was speaking about after the 2009 conviction. You haven't seen the docu, have you?

No, that is what the filmmakers want you to believe. Read Mignini again. He has told you he was referring to Narducci 2013, in the context he said it.

So once again all the pro-Knox lobby have made fools of themselves with their 'hate' tweets about Mignini being a pompous ass at the expense of the kids.
 
I was quoting Mignini in context.

We do not hear the interviewer asking him 'what if the pair were innocent' so the PIP glee over VF's Bachrach of Mignini's supposed callous answer was inappropriate and based on a lie.

So what if one REVIEW leaves that out? We're talking about the DOCUMENTARY. Notice he doesn't say the docu left that out. He's face saving. Something he's very good at doing.
 
What part of acquitted by the Supreme Court are you not understanding? It doesn't matter what Massei found. Hellmann found them innocent. They were both overturned.

Your last paragraph is being assigned to the assfact pile along with the rest of the "facts" you pulled out of the same place.

Oh dear, oh dear. Law is not your strong point,is it? Hellmann was expunged.

Do you not get Hellmann has zilch meaning.
 
So what if one REVIEW leaves that out? We're talking about the DOCUMENTARY. Notice he doesn't say the docu left that out. He's face saving. Something he's very good at doing.

What? Mignini does indeed say if the kids are innocent then he hopes they don't suffer, but not in the context the film portrays it . It lets the viewer believe this is Mignini's supercilious insincerity and puffed up pomposity.

Mignini came across as a lot more honest and credible than anybody else in the film, apart from Arline Kercher.
 
The trial and appeal - apart from Hellmann - was fair and balanced.

This is your opinion, obviously, but not the official conclusion of any court. So why should we care what your opinion is on this matter?
 
Oh dear, oh dear. Law is not your strong point,is it? Hellmann was expunged.

Do you not get Hellmann has zilch meaning.

Vixen, why do you quote from Massei and Nencini and reference their rulings and trials? Do you have a reason that is internally consistent with your own logic? Or nah?
 
Bill Williams said:
Oh please. Judge Boninsegna, in his motivations report with regard to the acquittal of Knox for defamation against the police, started out listing the judicial facts that were brought to that trial.

I suppose you're going to say that Judge Boninsegna had an editting problem, too - or is this one of your legendary "it's a typo" excuses for trying to spin something 180 degrees?

One of the judicial facts he listed to begin his explanation for why his court acquitted Knox of defamation is that the Supreme Court had exonerated her in the murder charges.

Exonerated. Lurkers please note the way Vixen deals with facts she does not like.
A lower court does not have the power to overturn a higher court decision. The Supreme Court ruled it was an Art 230 para II acquittal, of 'insufficent evidence' (cf. USA 'vacated'; Scottish, 'Not Proven').

Whilst Boninsegna might have said it, it has no meaning or effective power in law. It's merely his idiom.

The Boninsegna court was NOT a lower court with relation to the murder exoneration. It was a new process, one that acquited Knox for defamation against the police.

Where do you get this stuff, that the Boninsegna court "overturned" the murder acquittals? What the Boninsenga court did was simply begin its M.R. by stating the facts of all the proceedings which went before it:

CONSIDERED AS FACTS AND MATTERS OF LAW

The defendant was summoned to trial by the Judge of the Preliminary hearings
with the decree of 20-Mar-2015, for the facts cited in the charges.
The case is a follow-on of a more complex and serious one, regarding the
murder of Meredith Kercher, a young English student, which occurred in Perugia
between 01-Nov and 02-Nov-2007. Those proceedings concluded with the exoneration of the defendant of murder, that she was accused of together with her
boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito​
Boninsegna then gets into the matter in front of his court - the calunnia charge against Knox re: the police/interpreter. That finding is an acquittal.

It is incredible that you continue to argue this.

It is also bizarre that you're still peddling that there is an equivalent to the Scottish "not proven" in Italy. You are simply spoon-fed from TJMK.

Incredible.
 
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An Italian judge acting in his official capacity while writing an official report said they were exonerated. But that doesn't count because Vixen has an opinion, and that opinion matters more than a bag of hammers, for some reason I haven't quite grasped.
 
What? Mignini does indeed say if the kids are innocent then he hopes they don't suffer, but not in the context the film portrays it . It lets the viewer believe this is Mignini's supercilious insincerity and puffed up pomposity.

Mignini came across as a lot more honest and credible than anybody else in the film, apart from Arline Kercher.

It was heartbreaking hearing Mrs Kercher. But you've obviously not seen the documentary - I can't remember the exact quote, but it was obvious she felt betrayed by Italy.
 
No, that is not so; that is completely false. For example, Ryan Ferguson is celebrated in the press as being 'exonerated', when the truth is, his conviction was merely 'vacated.'

That is NOT an exoneration. Please don't show your ignorance of US law by claiming a 'vacated conviction' is an 'exoneration'.


Once again, please have the courtesy to read what I actually wrote, before replying to something you thought I wrote but which in fact I didn't write.

What I wrote was that in a single-acquittal system, "not guilty" and "not proven" are synonymous. That's nothing whatsoever to convictions being vacated on appeal.
 
Oh dear, oh dear. Law is not your strong point,is it? Hellmann was expunged.

Do you not get Hellmann has zilch meaning.


Oh dear, oh dear. Law is not your strong point, is it? Massei and Nencini were expunged.

Do you not get Massei and Nencini have zilch meaning.
 
What? Mignini does indeed say if the kids are innocent then he hopes they don't suffer, but not in the context the film portrays it . It lets the viewer believe this is Mignini's supercilious insincerity and puffed up pomposity.

Mignini came across as a lot more honest and credible than anybody else in the film, apart from Arline Kercher.


Yeah..... what actual objective evidence do you have for this. You ought to know by now that Mignini's entirely self-serving "justification" to ballet-botherer Quennell, in a naked attempt to spin a disastrous situation, simply doesn't cut it. Do you have hard evidence (in the form of the actual filmed interview) of exactly what Mignini was asked, and exactly what he replied?

That'll be a no, then.
 
No, that is what the filmmakers want you to believe. Read Mignini again. He has told you he was referring to Narducci 2013, in the context he said it.

So once again all the pro-Knox lobby have made fools of themselves with their 'hate' tweets about Mignini being a pompous ass at the expense of the kids.


There's only one set of commentators making fools of themselves right now. Alongside a rather unpleasant stringer hack journalist and an egomaniac mendacious Italian prosecutor :)
 
I only come on this thread once in a blue moon... I mean it's about 4000 pages or something in total now.

Is Vixen the only person actively arguing the Knox guilt side now?
 
So what if one REVIEW leaves that out? We're talking about the DOCUMENTARY. Notice he doesn't say the docu left that out. He's face saving. Something he's very good at doing.


It's emblematic of the pro-guilt idiots that they apparently cannot even see that Mignini is trying to re-invent history in his bizarre reply to TJMK (and I wonder where else in recent history a public prosecutor has chosen a weird niche website run by a Walter-Mitty-style obsessive to promote his/her own agenda, rather than a, y'know, proper media outlet...?). The very fact that the pro-guilt mob appear to take Mignini's "rebuttal" wholly at face value shows just how a) deeply over-invested, and b) incapable of critical thinking they are.

As I said before, I will not be one tiny bit surprised if/when objective documentary evidence comes out which exposes Mignini's "rebuttal" for what it is. And as I've also said before, Mignini has plenty of prior form in lying to try to protect himself, even before courts of law. It's not surprising that morons within the pro-guilt community need to believe that he's the epitome of probity and scrupulous honesty though.........
 
I only come on this thread once in a blue moon... I mean it's about 4000 pages or something in total now.

Is Vixen the only person actively arguing the Knox guilt side now?


On here, yep. There are also two (or perhaps three) pro-guilt websites with a handful of participants that are still fighting the True Believer fight. Everyone else has been enlightened.

And there are still loose ends and unfinished business in this case to discuss. The biggest of these is Knox's application to the European Court of Human Rights in respect of her criminal slander conviction (which currently still stands), on the grounds that she was unlawfully coerced and unlawfully denied access to legal advice, and was thus denied her human rights. If the ECHR rules in her favour (as many of us believe is highly probable, based on multiple pieces of evidence corroborating her claims), Italy will have little choice but to annul that conviction too, thereby clearing the slate totally for Knox.

In addition to that, there's also the continuing aftermath of the murder trials to discuss. The Netflix docu-film is part of that process. There will undoubtedly be more, in the form of journalistic investigation and potential investigation by the authorities in Italy. Recently, for example, the investigating prosecutor in this case (Mignini) was officially censured by his regulatory body for the improper way in which he denied Knox and Sollecito access to legal advice for over two days from the point of their detention right up until moments before their first arraignment hearing (Mignini invoked an entirely inappropriate section of the criminal code, intended for suspects in organised crime or terrorism cases, to do so).

So there's still some life in the old case yet. Thankfully, though, the biggest decisions have been made.
 
On here, yep. There are also two (or perhaps three) pro-guilt websites with a handful of participants that are still fighting the True Believer fight. Everyone else has been enlightened.

And there are still loose ends and unfinished business in this case to discuss. The biggest of these is Knox's application to the European Court of Human Rights in respect of her criminal slander conviction (which currently still stands), on the grounds that she was unlawfully coerced and unlawfully denied access to legal advice, and was thus denied her human rights. If the ECHR rules in her favour (as many of us believe is highly probable, based on multiple pieces of evidence corroborating her claims), Italy will have little choice but to annul that conviction too, thereby clearing the slate totally for Knox.

In addition to that, there's also the continuing aftermath of the murder trials to discuss. The Netflix docu-film is part of that process. There will undoubtedly be more, in the form of journalistic investigation and potential investigation by the authorities in Italy. Recently, for example, the investigating prosecutor in this case (Mignini) was officially censured by his regulatory body for the improper way in which he denied Knox and Sollecito access to legal advice for over two days from the point of their detention right up until moments before their first arraignment hearing (Mignini invoked an entirely inappropriate section of the criminal code, intended for suspects in organised crime or terrorism cases, to do so).

So there's still some life in the old case yet. Thankfully, though, the biggest decisions have been made.


man, I wish I could find that first Nightline (ABC news show) report on the case... must have been within the 1st month of the murder. They presented it as such a slam dunk for the prosecution. It was presented as a story of how technology betrayed them.


Has anyone ever changed anyone's mind? I find these people as hard to convince as 9/11 truthers... which I am sure there is a huge overlap.
 
man, I wish I could find that first Nightline (ABC news show) report on the case... must have been within the 1st month of the murder. They presented it as such a slam dunk for the prosecution. It was presented as a story of how technology betrayed them.


Has anyone ever changed anyone's mind? I find these people as hard to convince as 9/11 truthers... which I am sure there is a huge overlap.

I think the original Hellmann acquittal woke some people up to the fact that, even if they didn't suddenly believe Knox to be some innocent angel, the case really did have weaknesses and the prosecution/police really did screw some things up.

Anyone who still believed the case was strong after Hellmann is a lifer. They'll take Mignini's fantasy to their grave.
 
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